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Posted: 1/8/2004 2:36:21 AM EDT
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I'm interested in buying an AR15 and am overwhelmed with all the various models and brands out there. It seems Colt, bushmaster and armalite are among the favorites. But what about DPMS, Rock River, Olympic etc??? I like the price of the various olympic models, but don't hear much about them. Are there any websites or articles that compared the different brands? I don't want to start a brand war with this topic. I would just like some testimonies from owners of the various brands mentioned. Also, are floating barrels that much more accurate than regular A2 barrell and grips? Is there ANY DATA OUT THERE TO PROVE IT??? Thanks for the input!! |
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Welcome to the addiction... A good place to start and compare the different manufacturers is right here: [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=176349[/url] Do some research and make some decisions about what you want the AR to be and what's important to you before you buy... Are you interested in an uber-tack driver, a plinker, a weapon for SHTF/mutant zombie attacks, a safe queen? Actually, an AR owner needs several of each of these, thus the addiction... [;)] But you're already on the path... You found this site... |
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Check out these two articles. Lots of EXCELLENT AR info on this site. [url]http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/ar15brands.msnw[/url] [url]http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/theseriousar.msnw[/url] Lots more good articles also. Click on 'AR Articles' on the left side of the page. For some reason I can't get to this site thru Netscape but Explorer works fine for me. Shabo |
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While most consider the Armalite, Colt and bushmaster to be the top tier, your choice of a DPMS, RRA or Olympic are all rifles which fall in the second tier, which is good, as their is a third tier for kits like J&T, Model 1 sales ASA and the run like hell from category which is anything called Hesse.... While it is most helpful to include your intended "use" for the rifle, to save us from guessing at how you intend on utilizing the rifle, here's a short rundown... If your rifle is needed for SHTF, plinking and general use, make certain you buy a "chrome-lined" chamber and bore barreled rifle. The standard twist rate for a rifle like this is 1/9, which will allow you to shoot up to 69grn. SMKs (that normally group very well) and "possibly" the 77grn. variety bullets, provided you choose the 16" or longer 20" barrel length. If your interested in a rifle that will shoot the heavier weighted bullets, consider an upper in that has a twist rate of 1/7. (fwiw, CMMG sells a very nice DPMS M4 16" 1/7 upper on the EE, which I own one, and it shoots bullets from the 45grn. Winchester white box up to either the 77grn. SMKs or the newer Nosler 77grn. OTM and anything in between, very well, it is "chromed") I own the RRA 16" M4 1/9 twist, w/ faux A2 FS (post-ban) with the NM 2-stage lower and it to is a great rifle, trigger is sweet and it shoots rounds from 45grn. up to the 69grn. SMK (which it really likes and shoots tight with), while it'll shoot the 77grn. bullets the groups at 100 yards are in the 4-5" range, nowhere near the 1-1.5 MOA with rounds it likes. As to free-floating, this depends entirely on the upper, barrel length, barrel composition, etc..., some brands and barrels respond better than others to free-floating, but in general a long range, varmint type AR with the longer 20" or 24" heavy stainless steel barrel are tops, benefiting from the free-floating. The CR6724 "accurized" rifle (see Colt's web-site for details) of mine is able (if I do my part) to hold MOA in "good air" w/ 77grn. custom reloads out to 800 yards. I own Colt, DPMS, RRA and J&T uppers from 11.5 w/ 5.5 FS, 2 M4s one pre one post in 16" and the 24" Elite barrel LR AR. Lowers include Colts, Bushmaster and RRA NM. They are all fine products. Best to do your research "first" and decide how and what your use will be as this will help immensely, the fellas trying to help you. Mike |
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Thanks for the input guys...I'm getting addicted with each passing day... I guess I should have elaborated on what I want. I'm looking for a 20in, HBAR or bull barrell flat top capable of 1in. groups at 100yds. I'm not in it for competition, just and inexpensive, cool looking gun that is reliable and doesn't jam every 10 rounds. I've heard that any AR is capable of 1in. groups at 100yds so I don't know if I need the more expensive free floated bull barrell. What do you guys think? From what I've learned so far I should find a "decent" gun for $650. So that would be Olympic Arms or Model 1. Thanks again!! |
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Quoted: I'm looking for a 20in, HBAR or bull barrell flat top capable of 1in. groups at 100yds. Most of us have M4s (Chrome lined 14.5" & 16") that do that with decent ammo. Why do you want all that extra weight? inexpensive, No such thing as an 'inexpensive' AR-15. You either pay up front and get a good one (Colt or Bushmaster) or pay later for replacement parts and/or upgrades. cool looking gun that is reliable and doesn't jam every 10 rounds. Then you'll be wanting one of the better ARs.. |
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Most of us have M4s (Chrome lined 14.5" & 16") that do that with decent ammo. Why do you want all that extra weight? Hey now, some of us LIKE the extra velocity and range the additional 4 - 5.5 inches of barrel length gives us....and we're manly men and can handle the extra weight. LOL |
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Quoted: Hey now, some of us LIKE the extra velocity and range the additional 4 - 5.5 inches of barrel length gives us....and we're manly men and can handle the extra weight. LOL Manly-Men (n) Meaning a male person who carries their AR-15 from the trunk of their car to the bench rest; then procedes to shoot it from the bench rest (or occasional shots from offhand - only to quickly be put back on the bench). Later they will brag how 'manly' they are with their heavy rifle. Real-Men (n) Meaning a man who acually shoots his AR from realistic positions while supporting all the weight in his hands, and when done with it slings it (instead of putting it down). Real men like to 'train' and often carry their rifles for 6-8 hours at shooting courses - or through the woods in search of varmints or ferocious soda-cans. Ok now we've described men lets get back to the rifles. Brian if you want to see some REAL results of what a carbine is capable of go see NEW-ARGUY's post in the Rifles/Uppers/Lowers/Barrels section about his [b]SPRbine[/b]. Sub MOA shooting at a measures [b]500 yards[/b]! Neil is [i]"The MAN"[/i]! |
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20" barrels increase the range at which the ammunition will most likely fragment, particularly over 14.5 (rifled section) m4 barrels, that's why I got a 20" upper with a government profile barrel. Course the same barrel chopped down to dissipator length would make a nice carbine (my upper is now cringing in the corner [;)] ) |
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You take your gun out? I get in the back of the truck and lie there shooting. Manly man indeed. There's nothing wrong with wanting tack-driving accuracy. If 1" groups make you happy, .5" groups will make you happier still. One of the nice things about the AR is you can get a 'shortie' or SHTF gun, then pop a varmint-grade upper on it later. Or you can build your own upper, to your own specifications. A smith may be required (and I'd definately have the headspace checked/adjusted as needed) for some of the work but you'll be able to pick and choose your components. |
| New to ar's but with single stock bolt guns, floating may or may not improve accuracy. Thin profile barrels often shoot better with some stock pressure as slight pressure may dampen or improve consistancy of the vibrations. Without getting into the action/bedding discussion, you should note that most factory bolt guns come with some stock pressure as it is the cheapest way to improve the accuracy average of thousands of hunting rifles. Heavier barrels tend to do better without. Accuracy aside, the most important reason for me to float barrels is to eliminate point of impact shifts due to forearm pressure. |
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Thanks for the input guys and manly men. I will be doing a bit of both bench rest shooting at the range and varmint hunting in the woods. I walk around all day with a 870 express 12gage that probably weighs alot more than an AR. I like the modular design of the AR so that if I do want a 14.5 barrell someday, I can slap it on. What about color matching? I've noticed some AR's buttstocks are greyish black while the receivers are black. Some don't even match upper to lower in color. If I buy a model 1 kit, will I have trouble finding a lower receiver that matches in color? I know the main purpose is function, but a gun with three different colors looks a little cheap. |
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Quoted: I walk around all day with a 870 express 12gage that probably weighs alot more than an AR. Nope, a Remmintong 870 Express 12ga with a 28" barrel weights a pound LESS than an HBAR 20" AR-15 (it weights the same as an HBAR 16" AR-15). The 'Deer Gun' versions of the 870 shave off a few ounces more... What about color matching? I've noticed some AR's buttstocks are greyish black while the receivers are black. That is normal - put some CLP on the stock and it will look very black. Some don't even match upper to lower in color. If I buy a model 1 kit, will I have trouble finding a lower receiver that matches in color? You're odds are best if you buy a complete rifle from a major manufacturer; but even then its not guaranteed. |
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Quoted: Thanks for the input guys...I'm getting addicted with each passing day... I guess I should have elaborated on what I want. I'm looking for a 20in, HBAR or bull barrell flat top capable of 1in. groups at 100yds. I'm not in it for competition, just and inexpensive, cool looking gun that is reliable and doesn't jam every 10 rounds. I've heard that any AR is capable of 1in. groups at 100yds so I don't know if I need the more expensive free floated bull barrell. What do you guys think? From what I've learned so far I should find a "decent" gun for $650. So that would be Olympic Arms or Model 1. Thanks again!! I'd check out RRA for a 20" flat top in the lower price ranges. ~AbM |
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Sure most any AR will shoot an inch, but then you shoot off bipods and the weight of the gun is now deflecting the barrel, then you decide to shoot with a sling and the sling tension pulls the barrel sideways, If you are always going to shoot off hand or sandbagged exactly the same way then you won't notice the point of impact change that freefloating the barrel will prevent. And can you shoot an inch. If you can't clearly see an EGG at 100 yds then your not an inch shooter. |
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