AR Sponsor
Posted: 1/4/2004 7:10:17 PM EDT
|
I went the range today and noticed that instead of shooting nice tight circular groupings as I see all of you guys take pictures of, I get a different grouping. My shots all seem to form a linear grouping, from bottom left to upper right. Most shots are grouped in the center of the "line", but the pattern is repeated over and over with a fair # of outliers in these two corners. My camera is broken or I would submit a pic. Forgive me. Specifics: RRA 16" barrel, using Q3131. Iron A-2 sights at 100 yrds, all groups less than 6-8 inches in maximum dispersion (cut me some slack, I've only used ring sights three times). Temp 12 degrees F, winds 5-10 mph direction variable, mostly right to left. No windage adjustments made. Shot from seated position on bench without external supports (sandbags). Will post pic if camera fixed in timely fashion. Am I flinching, jerking the trigger, need windage adjust, or do I suck and just need more practice? Made progress--140 rounds later. |
|
It would take a dman hurricane for wind to throw you off like that at 100 yards. Without watching you shoot, I would guess it was either your trigger squeeze or a bad natural point of aim - or a combination of both. The fact that the dispersion tightened up after while leads me to believe it was just bad natural point of aim (NPA). How was your follow through? Observe your recoil after the shot and watch where the rifle settles back down to. Ideally you want it to go right back on target. If your NPA is off, you will be straining to get on target (it doesn't take much) and that could potentially explain the groups you had. You would also notice - if your NPA is off - that the recoil throws the weapon slightly sideways, and it settles down off of the target. |
|
OK, maybe I should have explained....I am a real, real newbie at this. I don't know what a natural point of aim is. I did notice that with each shot the rifle/sight/me moves to the right by the distance of 2-3 inches or more but I do settle back on the target for the most part. I take by your comments that I should be on target even during recoil. Will practice that. Thanks for the tips. I really appreciate them. |
|
If you have knobody else to coach you, I really suggest just dry firing. Don't load any ammo, just close the bolt and pull the trigger. You don't even need to go to a range, draw a little silhouette or whatever you want for a target on a piece of white paper and stick it on your wall at home. Practice holding on target and squeezing the trigger. The break of the trigger should be almost a surprise, as you should be gradually taking up slack the whole time. There are whole books on the subject, and I don't know how much of a newbee you are, but you need to be conscious of your breathing, your position, your trigger squeeze, etc. An 8" spread at 100 yards is avoidable even in pressure situations when breath control is less of a luxury, so I get the feeling you will find great gains just practicing holding on target and breaking that trigger. With no ammo, you should be able to hold on target, hear that click, and stay on target. Visualize yourself pulling the target into your front sight by the rearward motion of your trigger finger. You should be breaking the shot during your natural respiratory pause, which occurs after exhale and before inhale. With practice, you can extend that period by breathing slightly deeper leading up to the shot - your body should be completely relaxed, and the weapon pointed naturally on target. Every bit of muscle strain is a potential inconsistency that can throw off your shot as it breaks - and will be magnified if you anticipate the shot or fail to properly follow through. Breathe Relax Aim Squeeze Good luck. |
|
The vertical stringing you describe is typically caused by a breathing problem. When I shot competitively for the Army, I always taught the following: 1 - Present the rifle with a consistent stock-to-cheek weld and sight picture (nose to the charging handle) 2 - Relax 3 - Inhale normally (no deep breaths) 4 - Partially exhale and hold your breath there 5 - Finalize your sight picture and alignment 6 - Press the trigger 7 - Finish the exhale If you can't get a good sight picture during your breath holding phase, finish the exhale and start the cycle with an inhale again. Holding your breath too long will cause issues as well. Only you can know how long is too long. If you think about it, if you're breathing during the shot, the rise and fall of your chest will move the rifle up and down as well. It's not very noticeable to your sight picture, but it is most certainly noticeable in your groups. [:)] Good luck! |
|
As another newbie.... At 100 yds, with open sights on A2 20" what type of group size is acceptable? I'm shooting M193. I get about 5 inch groups. I really have difficulty seeing that far. One concern is that I'm shooting in a dark, indoor range for winter. I expect to improve once I get outside in spring. With a 4x scope, I can get 1 1/2 groups at 100 yds. So I believe the problem is not my mechanical shooting techniques, but my sighting. |
|
[img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=21220[/img] [img]photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=21221[/img] This illustrates what you should be seeing when using your irons. Your focus should be on the FRONT SIGHT, not on the target or the rear sight, both of which will be "fuzzy." The tip of your nose should be touching the charging handle (or a hair behind it). Your cheek weld on the stock needs to be the same every time (you may need a shorter stock in order for this to work correctly). You need to squeeze the trigger, and it should be a surprise when it breaks and the gun fires. You need to control your breathing, and you need to have a good rest for your rifle. While the problem you described *could* be an equipment issue, it's more likely to be the result of a new shooter who's still getting used to the rifle. -Troy |
|
maybe you should try a bi-pod for shooting prone, which is the most accurate position. Your shooting technique is very important but another important aspect is your mental approach to shooting. Don't think about group sizes when your shooting, just think about the 1 shot your taking as your first and last shot, also don't rush your shots. One thing that might help you pace yourself is to only load 1 shot in a magazine at a time so you don't just bang out one shot after another like an AR might tempt you to do. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/085477.jpg[/img] |
| Dittos to most everything stated above. Just also want to stress the dry-fire technique. This practice costs nothing but time very well spent. As you dry-fire your target (which could even just be a discolored spot on the wall) pay very carefull attention to where the front sight was when the shot breaks. Doing this allows you to be able to "call" your shot - that is being able to tell where the shot has hit based upon where the sight was when you shot. This will really work to tighten up your groups. |
|
Yeah, I was thinking the temps could definetly be a contributing factor... Also agree with the advice to get plenty of dry firing in - that sort of practice has helped my rifle and handgunning skills alot - and even helps to keep me somewhat sharp when I'm unable to get to the range as much as I'd like... - georgestrings |
|
Focus clearly on front sight, target should be slightly blurred. I have bad eyesight, but with practice and a steady rest you should be able to get about 2 to 3 inch groups. I use a small sandbag under the buttstock and squeeze it to raise and lower the butt, and to steady it. A lot depends on the rifle for me: my CMP Garand gets about 6 inch groups. My ARs, K31, Erfurt Russian capture K98k all get about 2 to 3 inches. My StG58/DSA FAL clone gets about 1 to 2 inches. |
| Just a guess without watching you shoot it sounds like breathing and cheek weld. Placing your nose on the charging handle will help you get to the same sight picture every time, and just being aware of this will help as well. When controlling your breathing aways stop or "hold" your breath where it is comfortable for YOU. If at the bottom of your breath cycle is not confortable then try stopping midway through your exhale. Some guys even exhale VERY slowly while aiming and firing. Watch that rigger finger you only need the tip of that bad boy on the triger. The dime or washer drill while dry firing you rifle will help alot. It sounds very cheesey but it works. I have used it to help a few troops, and their marksmenship had improved vastly. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Temp 12 degrees F Just to add, your not going to do your best work as you freeze you ass off. Great tips! I can't wait to go out (or stay in for the dry firing) and try them. I can't blame the cold....these were some of my best groups with this AR, and it's only going to get colder for the next 2-3 mo. But you're right, I did freeze my tender buttocks off. I wasn't even considering breathing. Duh! I suspect that it is a combination of that and the trigger break/flinch problem now that I see everyone's tips. |
AR Sponsor