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Posted: 7/31/2003 5:55:08 AM EDT
As usual I am sure that someone else has asked this question but I was not able to find it.

Can a preban rifle assembled as a rifle before the AWB be converted to a carbine (folding stock, removable flash hider, bayo lug) if it was manufactured as a Colt 6700 Competition HBAR (no bayo lug, fixed stock, no flash hider)?

It only had 2 evil features (pistol grip and detachable mag) when manufactured. Is it legal to add more now?

I am new to the AWB laws so please forgive me.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 5:56:50 AM EDT
yep.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 9:19:29 AM EDT
Yep? Thanks for the confirmation. Clarification: Is that becuase it was manufactured before 1994? Is it because it is a Colt AR15 specifically? Can you explain the affirmation? I have looked at the AWB and the tech letters and cannot find exactly where this would apply. I really appreciate the information.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 9:24:10 AM EDT
Wrong!!!! The weapon had to have three or more features prior to the ban in order to legally change anything into a AW. Read the AWB. If this weapon did not have these features before the ban then it is not a preban rifle.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 9:41:39 AM EDT
Ok, confused now from 2 people coming from 2 different angles. But, it is a moot point because I just got word that this AR does have the flashhider. So it does have 3 evil features and is ok to modify. I got the dreaded black rifle disease. Very bad on the pocket book.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 9:49:01 AM EDT
how much for one?
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 10:45:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2003 10:47:52 AM EDT by ANGST]
Originally Posted By Boom: Wrong!!!! The weapon had to have three or more features prior to the ban in order to legally change anything into a AW. Read the AWB. If this weapon did not have these features before the ban then it is not a preban rifle.
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A "semi-automatic assault rifle" as defined by law is one of the named models , or a semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine and [b]two[/b] or more "features". Detachable mag is a prerequisite, not a feature ! Man, I hope I don't have to talk about this much longer.........
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 12:32:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ANGST:
Originally Posted By Boom: Wrong!!!! The weapon had to have three or more features prior to the ban in order to legally change anything into a AW. Read the AWB. If this weapon did not have these features before the ban then it is not a preban rifle.
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A "semi-automatic assault rifle" as defined by law is one of the named models , or a semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine and [b]two[/b] or more "features". Detachable mag is a prerequisite, not a feature ! Man, I hope I don't have to talk about this much longer.........
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That is not correct, you are way off base. A detachable mag is a feature. I remember when rifles where being made with fixed mags right after the ban so that a FH could be used. You will have to show me proof in from a US court in order for me to believe you.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 1:17:26 AM EDT
a rifle assembled BEFORE the ban IS pre-ban! keep in mind, "pre" means "before". prior to the "ban" there wasn't anything saying that your rifle must have the following features to qualify as an assualt weapon. only AFTER the ban did the definition of what makes an AW an AW. So your rifle was assembled before the ban, and you want to make it a carbine? do it! Boom, ANGST is right. If not, then how else can you explain the FAB-10????? (California legal AR type rifle which doesn't have a detachable mag, and DOES have flash supressor, bayo lug, etc)
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 5:03:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 5:10:15 AM EDT by ANGST]
Originally Posted By Boom: That is not correct, you are way off base. A detachable mag is a feature. I remember when rifles where being made with fixed mags right after the ban so that a FH could be used. You will have to show me proof in from a US court in order for me to believe you.
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This is the law , straight from the US Code, please read it [url]http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+18USC921[/url] [i](30) The term ``semiautomatic assault weapon'' means-- (A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as-- (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70); (iv) Colt AR-15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC; (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12; (vii) Steyr AUG; (viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and (ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; (B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an [b]ability to accept a detachable magazine [/b] and has at least 2 of-- (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii) a bayonet mount; (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (v) a grenade launcher; [/i] A rifle with a fixed magazine can have any or all features you want. Like the FAB-10 recievers.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 5:39:19 AM EDT
The rifle with it's original configuration, Semi Auto with detatchable magazine, Pistol Grip and flash supressor, would be considered illegal now. Because it was assembled, before September 1994 it would be considered a "pre-ban weapon." Now the question to be asked is "Can I add another 'illegal feture?'" I've seen this debated many times. One side would say, yes, you can make the rifle a carbine with a flash supressor, but no bayo lug, and must have a fixed stock, because that is what the rifle originally had. My understanding is a Pre-ban is a Pre-ban. You can't make it any more illegal or legal. So I'd have to say it'd be ok to make your rifle into a carbine with telescoping stock, and bayo lug. The detatchahable mag IS part of the definition, not an "evil feature."
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 7:57:29 AM EDT
As long as it left the factory as a complete rifle its fine.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 8:26:43 AM EDT
Don't get all bent out of shape on this. If the receiver was made before the ban there is no way that they can prove it was not in Preban config. Plus if you go by the rule as they are written then the second you take off your upper you took it out of Preban configuration and can no longer have the evil features. I have went rounds with the BATF on this issue. I will quote what I was told by the Agent I talked to "Don't do anything illegal with it and don't worry about it"
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 9:49:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 10:14:56 AM EDT by 1ar4me]
OMG! You guys MUST watch out for the preban POLICE they are driving around your houses right now looking for the next room mate for Bubba at the local fed. pen. PLEASE be careful the preban/post ban police have all our phone lines tapped and secret camera's rolling all the time. The have even paid off gun store owners and range master at local shooteries....... The post ban police is a new secret department of the FED. SYSTEM BECAUSE THE BATF DOESNT FUCKING CARE! Can you beleive that? the BATF and its agents dont care about the AWB flash hiders pistol grips etc. I also beleive they have never prosecuted anyone yet for have a flash hider on a post ban weapon. Thank god for the Post ban Police!(and all there secret operatives) The post ban police will keep everybody in check!
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 3:19:13 PM EDT
If it wasn't in "AW configuration" before the ban, it can't be put into it now. A stock 10/22 with no evil features built in 1975 would be considered POST-BAN now, regardless of date of manufacture, if it was not configured with more than TWO of the enumerated features on or before 9/13/94. Hopefully it'll all go away in about 13 months.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 3:30:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By coltcarbine: a rifle assembled BEFORE the ban IS pre-ban! keep in mind, "pre" means "before". prior to the "ban" there wasn't anything saying that your rifle must have the following features to qualify as an assualt weapon. only AFTER the ban did the definition of what makes an AW an AW. So your rifle was assembled before the ban, and you want to make it a carbine? do it! Boom, ANGST is right. If not, then how else can you explain the FAB-10????? (California legal AR type rifle which doesn't have a detachable mag, and DOES have flash supressor, bayo lug, etc)
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Yes he is correct by the mag not being a feature I was wrong, I have never seen the FAB-10 so I cannot comment on it but I think that it is not a semi auto. If that is the case then it does not fall under the AWB and you can put anything on it. If a rifle built before the ban never had the evil features then that rifle would be considered a post ban gun, it does not matter when it was built only if it had been configured with evil items, bayo, FH or tele stock before the ban then and only then would it be a preban gun. The AWB states what is a pre and post rifle, read it very carefully. Circuits is right on.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 3:41:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boom: Yes he is correct by the mag not being a feature I was wrong, I have never seen the FAB-10 so I cannot comment on it but I think that it is not a semi auto. If that is the case then it does not fall under the AWB and you can put anything on it. If a rifle built before the ban never had the evil features then that rifle would be considered a post ban gun, it does not matter when it was built only if it had been configured with evil items, bayo, FH or tele stock before the ban then and only then would it be a preban gun. The AWB states what is a pre and post rifle, read it very carefully. Circuits is right on.
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The FAB 10 lower is semi auto. It was made for California gun owners who wanted to own an AR15. It's an AR 15 lower with non detatchable 10 round mag buit into it. You load it by opening the upper from the lower and using a stripper clip.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 3:45:37 PM EDT
I think the detachable mag is one of the two "inherent" AWB features, meaning that additional features only start to count once that feature is in place on a semi-auto weapon.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 5:05:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 8:28:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 9:50:04 PM EDT by Pinetop]
So Troy, would you say that an M1 carbine, build in 1941 WITHOUT bayonet lug, or flash surpressor, or pistol grip would NOT be an assault weapon, and a folding stock could be added. This would give it only one evil feature. Edited to add: This isn't a flame, I am really interested in the correct info as I want to add a replica folding stock to my '41 Carbine. Thanks, Pinetop
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 11:14:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Pinetop: So Troy, would you say that an M1 carbine, build in 1941 WITHOUT bayonet lug, or flash surpressor, or pistol grip would NOT be an assault weapon, and a folding stock could be added. This would give it only one evil feature. Edited to add: This isn't a flame, I am really interested in the correct info as I want to add a replica folding stock to my '41 Carbine. Thanks, Pinetop
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But wouldn't a collapsible stock require a pistol grip? If that is the case, then you can't, because the pistol grip and folding stock are two separate features. I am not aware of any folding stocks for the M1 carbine that do not include a pistol grip, although I am not a M1 carbine expertr and could be wrong. If you mean a pistol grip with a stock that is permanently pinned open, then yes, you can have it. The pistol grip would be the one feature you could add.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 11:55:31 PM EDT
Hadn't thought about that. Yes, the folder also includes a pistol grip on the stock. Pinetop
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 4:53:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 5:06:50 AM EDT by UrbanKnight]
I have a preban question as well, about the reciever "losing preban status" I had a complete colt HBAR preban (in the Fs section). It has two evil features. The pistol grip and flash hider.. Serial was a 2 digit CH prefix... I decided to part the weapon out, and sold off the upper.. So I have a lower with only one evil feature. I want to sell the lower, do I have to "add" another evil feature, someone is telling me if I don't, it loses it preban status.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 4:57:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 5:07:59 AM EDT by UrbanKnight]
Here is the thread in question if anyone can shed some light. Glklvr posted an interesting letter from the ATF...so if anyone can help http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1795744#post1795744 UK
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