I was surfing and stumbled accross this.

   www.sierratimes.com/03/07/15/gaddy.htm

This is friggin nuts. I can't/can believe this sh$t. This is a wake up call. If you think it can't happen here think again. Do you suppose 3 mill of the 60 mill gun owners marched on the White House we could get our point accross?

I'm not sure how to make this hot, if someone could help.

glimmerman68

   [url]www.sierratimes.com/03/07/15/gaddy.htm[/url]

FBI And DOJ Move To Subvert Political Process
By Michael Gaddy  

With over 100 cities having voted nonsupport for the Patriot Act, the government has swung into action to influence the votes in jurisdictions that are considering such a vote, or those that might do so.
Obviously the pressure is beginning to mount. How can they expect to push Patriot II at us when so many have caught on to the game and are rejecting Patriot I?

The FBI, working in conjunction with DOJ, is now sending --through local police forces to city councils and other local government bodies --a piece of drivel called "US Patriot Act Myths." (See in its entirety below) A United States Attorney for the Western District of Pennsylvania, Mary Beth Buchanan, prepared this document.

This appears to be a cooperative effort between the FBI, DOJ and the local police departments of the cities considering legislation against the Patriot Act. DOJ prepared the propaganda; the FBI provides it to sources inside the police departments, who then send it to their cronies in the governing bodies.

This should put to rest the idea the police really want to honor their oaths to the Constitution.

Sources that shall remain anonymous, for obvious reasons, say that in addition to the state authored drivel, the governing bodies are being provided with lists of potential domestic terrorists within the governing bodies immediate area. These lists appear to be very much inflated. A jurisdiction of 40,000 inhabitants was provided with a three-page list of these potential domestic "terrorists."

Are we to believe for a moment that such a document is not intended to intimidate the governing body into supporting the Patriot Act out of abject fear? Attempts are now being made to secure one of these "lists." First indications are they have been classified and are not to be disseminated to the public, which ultimately means the governing bodies would not be able to confirm or deny the authenticity of such a list.

It is imperative to big brother that these tyrannical pieces of legislation receive full support. I have been told that Patriot II will establish data bases of all those, who for reasons I am sure they believe in, have seen fit to beg government for the rights guaranteed by our Creator through the Constitution, namely, those currently holding concealed carry permits.

Congressman Ron Paul in an earlier interview here at Sierra Times stated that no member of Congress was allowed to view Patriot I before the vote was called. Now the DOJ boasts of the level of support the act received in the Congress.

On February 7, 2003 the Center for Public Integrity, a nonpartisan public interest think-tank in Washington, revealed the full text of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003. (Patriot II) The classified document had been leaked to them by an unnamed source inside the Federal government. Remember, if you will, John Ashcroft's initial denial of the existence of this document.

There was a version of this act presented to Speaker of the House, Hastert, and many of the provisions of Patriot II are included in Senate Bill S.22. This is very important because it catches the Justice Department in a bald-faced lie. The Justice Department claimed that the secret legislation brought into the House was only for study, and there was no intention to try to pass it.

[red]This legislation calls for registration of ALL gun owners and a national ballistics database, while prohibiting the private sale of firearms.[/red]

All of these Hitler-esque actions have passed through the various committees and have made their way into these pieces of legislation now pending. Where is the outcry from our lawmakers?

Remember all of the prevarications of government as you review the propaganda now being delivered to city councils etc. as they debate the local support and enforcement of the Patriot Acts.

Thanks for the help guys.

Seems the shit gets deeper and deeper everyday. These are the people we elected to be on our side. Turncoats. They should be thrown in jail. Patriot 2 is some scary shit. Never knew it was that bad.

Okay jumping off my [soapbox] . Before I get thrown in jail.

glimmerman68

[b][size=6][red]WARNING!  TIN FOIL HAT MUST BE FIRMLY IN PLACE BEFORE READING[/red][/size=6][/b]

Do think the Dems and Reps are working together?

One side tries to liberal us up by taking and restricting the one right that protects the rest so we'll vote for the Repubs and then the Repubs will turn fascist on our asses

Glimmerman: Hoorah, Now you are coming of age. Keep researching the Socialist progressive movement and you will see the Liberals want to take away our rights, while the republicans want to put us in jail, Even the republicans are ignoring the conservative voice. Calm down though, there is a long row to hoe. I used to say they can't do that, and per the US Constitution they can't, but they are. Carry on, Jeep

You got it right, Halfcocked.  Who the hell can we trust anymore?

Glad to see you've come around, Jeep. This is exactly what I was trying to say to you in the other [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=164885]discussion thread[/url]. The semantics of the law are irrelevant. Might makes right, & the Constitution & the Bill of Rights are being made null via incremental encroachment, wrapped in the guise of fighting [i]this[/i] or preventing [i]that[/i] (Did you look up RICO yet?).



Right you are. How does it feel to be a peon?

I consider myself to be somewhat of a history buff. Everytime time I hear some friggin world saver wanting to ban this or ban that I think of one word: PROHIBITION!!! You can learn almost everything you need to know about the future from the past.

Ya know you'd think this administration is trying to create more crime. I'm sure someone would get a kick back at our exspense, not to mention all that "control". Okay I'll say it: conspiracy theory. This is all hypothetical, of course.

Jeep, do you think this might get some peoples attention. Patriot 2 needs to go down NOW!!! Carrying on.

glimmerman68

Master-Blaster; I have been around, but it is difficult to follow some of your points. The other thread had nothing to do with the semantics of the LAW. While you like many others point out the loss and subversion of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, I am trying to point out WHOM is behind the subversion. Reading your posts I get the feeling that you have no hope in correcting or reversing the current political trend. It is bleak but without hope you might as well surrender your guns now. Peon is not the correct deffinition. As per John Lennons, -Working Class Hero- it is (Your still f--king peasent as far as I can see). If you really care, inform others, as it advances nothing for two in agreement to banter between themselves. Best wishes, Jeep

Glimmerman: Conspiracy Theory, how? When the same people, (Socialists) have taken prayer out of the schools, outlawed nativity scenes, support NOW, Gay Rights, Gun Control Inc., Taxes, restrictive Laws, allowing and pampering to illegal aliens, are anti property rights, Control the news media, and have the government agencies to enforce their doctrine, with 54 members in congress being in a sociialist group, and many more not mentioned. I can't say Conspiracy, But I will say SUBVERSION.  Will Patriot 1 or 2 get peoples attention?, probably not, unless you and I warn them about it. Aim small, Jeep

[img]http://www.natvan.com/images/202.gif[/img]

In your response to me in the previously referenced thread, you stated:



Hence, my reply in regards to semantics of the Constitution were to point out that the unconstitutionality of laws does not change the fact that they persist, nonetheless. Inasmuch, this shows that, sadly,  rule-by-might is a part of conventional life in America. The examples I posted should only serve to justify that observation.



Obviously, you have a problem w/ synicism. Have I given up? No. Truth is, the only thing I can think to effectively do is to try to affect thinking at the grass-roots level. That is, to invite others to go shooting w/ me so they can partake of the fun factor. Then, once the fear &/or mystique of guns has worn away, maybe their perspective on firearms might "mature". Writing my U.S. Senator is out of the question, because she happens to be Patty Murray. She thinks that Afghani's support OBL because he built infrastructure & schools for them, while we haven't done anything. Writing to her about my firearms-related concerns will serve only 2 purposes: 1) Put it at the forefront of her mind; 2) Identify myself to her as one of those (evil) [i]Gun People[/i]. Neither of these is a desirable consequence. I'd rather she focus on soccer-mom/PTA conventions or babble about OBL school- & road-building projects. Stay away.

My synicism is borne from disgust towards politicians who only know how to [i]use[/i] power & not how to [i]wield[/i] it benevolently. They automatically assume that private gun ownership = murder/death/violence, & never prevention/protection/defense. No credit is ever lent to responsible owners &/or ownership. Only a glaring eye of suspicion, wariness, & contempt.

You say the Constitution is being curtailed & undermined. I say, same news, different day. Not be offensive, but just to make an observation. I haven't given up on the Constitution, just much of the gov't culture that's been entrusted to protect it. The corruption is just too deep. But then, that's just my "Working Class Hero"/peon view.

Master-Blaster: Very good post. My condolences on the Patty Murry bitch. Keep up the fight. Best wishes, Jeep

Er, UH Link doesn't work.
Tried coping url and pasting to address bar too. HMMMM Could someone post it, or email it to me.

PLEASE

Their link must down. Imagine that. Go to [url]www.whatreallyhappened.com [/url]  Scroll to bottom where it says search. Put in 7/15/2003. Click on the first header. Scroll down till you come to "FBI and DOJ move to subvert political process". There are several days to scroll through so it may take a minute, but keep your eyes open its there. I tried there too. Link was still down. Again this is curious. Good luck.

gm