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Posted: 11/9/2002 4:42:33 PM EDT
| What is the real deal on Having a pre-ban upper and post ban lower? I am getting mixed opinions and having a little trouble finding a clear statement in the laws about this. Is there a strait forward description in the laws some where or do you need to be a lawyer to interpret this information? |
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Pre ban upper has a bayonet lug and threaded barrel. You can use it on a post ban upper if you: 1. Remove the bayonet lug. Kurt from KKF in the industry forum does this. 2. Permanently attach a muzzle brake so the threads are covered. Kurt from KKF does this also. Also, you may not put a grenade launcher on the upper. Thats it. |
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The serial # lower is the rifle, the rest is add-ons. If the lower was made and assembled before the ban, than it is a pre ban lower/rifle. If the lower was made before the ban, yet never made into a complete rifle before the ban, than the lower is a post ban. The lower dictates the rifle type. If the lower is a post ban, then adding a pre ban upper to the post ban lower is creating a illegal configuration, due to the rifle having the detectable mag and more that one evil item such as pistol grip, threaded barrel that will accept a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, or grenade launcher. A post ban(semi auto rifle) can only have the detachable mag and one of the evils listed above. Hope this helps. |
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Just to be clear, here are the requirements for a rifle to be an "assault weapon": Any semiautomatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following features: o a folding or telescoping stock. o a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. o a bayonet mount. o a flash suppressor or a threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor. o a grenade launcher Since the AR usually has a pistol grip, then it cannot have any of the other listed features. A lowere receiver which was constructed into a rifle with the above requirements before September 13, 1994 is considered a preban rifle. Any newly produced lower receiver or one that was never made into an "assault weapon" before the date is considered a postban and cannot have the above features installed on it until the ban expires in September of 2004 and is not renewed. |
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GoFaster: It's simple, except for the grey area (below). You cannot under any circumstance put a pre-ban upper eg one with bayo lug and flash suppressor or threaded muzzle on a post-ban lower. On the other hand you can put a post-ban upper (one without the evil features) on a pre-ban lower. This is because a post-ban lower already has all the evil features allowed in any gun of this type eg detachable magazine and pistol grip. The grey area concerns the lower. In order for a lower to be considered as a pre-ban SAW (semi-automatic assault weapon) it, according to the BATF, must have been assembled into a complete pre-ban (by that they mean a lower and an upper with all the evil features) prior to Sept 13, 1994. Moreover, according to the BATF, in order for the lower to be still considered as a pre-ban the gun, if sold or transferd since Sept 1994, must have been sold as a complete pre-ban. That is, it must have been sold or transfered with a pre-ban upper. If not, then according to the BATF, the lower has lost it's pre-ban status. Now, to make matters even more confusing there a certain guns that were "named" in the legislation that some say this particular rule does not apply to. For example a Colt built prior to the ban with "AR 15" stamped on the lower. |
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How could you tell if a upper/lower combination was assembled before or after Sept 13 1994 with out knowing the history of the rifle? And if the upper(Pre-ban)has a permanent muzzle brake(welded) and the bayonet lug has been removed does that not negate the evil features of the pre-ban upper and therefore render it legal? like per DevL. |
Ahh... good question. Answer: you must be able to get your hands on some kind of proof, unless you were the owner of that rifle on 9/13/94. If the gun left the manufacturer as a complete rifle in AW configuration, and the manufacturer still exists, and hasn't lost their records to a series of floods and fires (ahem, Olympic), they can send you a letter stating the rifle's configuration and the date it left the factory. Otherwise, it is up to the possessor to have some kind of proof of the rifle's status. "The guy/dealer I bought ASSURED me it was pre-ban" isn't proof, BTW.
Yes, you can remove (or legally negate) the prohibited features from a "pre-ban-configured" upper and legally put it on a post-ban lower. We do that all the time. Now that you know a few of the stupid rules, help us persuade Congress to allow the ban to sunset on 9/13/2004, so that these rules go away. The election was a HUGE and successful first step, but you can help more by MAILING a nice, short letter on paper to your Senators and Congressmen. Paper letters are the most persuasive form of communication besides a stack of money. -Troy |
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GoFaster: In response to your first question there are sites, bighammer's and the old AR Board, being a couple, where you can see if the gun was originally assembled as a pre-ban prior to Sept 94. Technically, I guess you should know the history of the gun as well as it's original, manufactured configuration. As you might imagine that is not always possible. However, on the other hand many people simply do two things: One, check the lists on its original manufacture and two, buy it as a complete pre-ban (pre-ban upper and verified pre-ban lower). Yes, you can remove the bayo lug and permanently (weld or pin w/weld) a brake on a pre-ban upper. Now you have a legal post-ban upper. If you want to read the "gory" details about all this then the Legal Forum has several in-depth threads concerning these issues. Moreover, the statutes (U.S. Codes) are cited and offered as well as the opinion/position letters from the BATF. |
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