AR Sponsor
Posted: 8/30/2002 6:03:51 PM EDT
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Can a post-ban AR-15 have a Threaded muzzle for a suppresor legally. I thought it would be illegal if it was threaded with the same threads as a flash suppresor? I know its a dumb question. |
If you're talking sound suppressor - these are considered flash hiders by those same astute, enlightened people you refered to earlier. Therefore, it automatically requires the use of a Pre-ban rifle, as it would have both threads and a flash hider. Even if you weasel around the threads, you have the F/H and you're back to "evil features" counting - and being over the limit. Yeah, it's stupid. |
| Why don't you want the aw ban to sunset? I hope you aren't the guy I remember who wants the aw to stay so the prices of ARs won't get messed up. If you are then you are an anti-gun SOB who dosen't understand the 2nd amendment. If you aren't, then disregard the above. |
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Deersniper - I think what Maverick was alluding to was an all-out ban of AWs, making those rifles that are currently considered "post-ban" (referring to the 1994 legislation) now technically "pre-ban" (referring to any new legislation). So he's worried that any and all use of F/H, suppressors and all becomes No-No ... Marty |
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Just to add, you can have a post-ban with a threaded barrel. The only draw back is that the threads can not be the same as any flash suppresser offered. The law reads: a flash suppresser or a threaded barrel that will accommodate a flash suppresser. As long as the barrel is threaded differently than any known FS, your in the clear!!!!!! |
| As long as the threads are anything but 1/2"-28tpi (turns per inch) you are ok on an AR15. You have muzzle brakes available in 9/16"-24tpi, 5/8"-24tpi, 5/8"-28tpi, 7/16"-28tpi, .500"-32tpi, .562"-32tpi, .625"-32tpi and .575"-40tpi. There are more but this is just to give you an idea of all the possibilities. |
| I believe the law is worded such as that it can not be threaded to accept a suppressor. I think a non typical thread or some weird thread that is not commonly used would be ok. I have read something about this in the BATF FAQ I believe. I will try to remember the link.... |
| Seems to me that Professional Ordnance Inc. Has a unique solution to the whole probelm with post ban muzzle brake attachment. They use what amounts to an air compressor type connector. basically three fully captured steel balls that are allowed to retract ala sliding sleeve mating to depressions for the balls on the barrel end. I saw this on one of their rifles at a gun shop and thought, damn that's the way this should be done! This solution seems so obvious that I can't understand why it hasn't been picked up on by other manufacturers? I would like the abilty to use a brake under certain circumstances while retaining the flexibility to remove it too. Also you never see the main manufacturers offering the non-standard thread approach. Seems like the POI style attachment would be ideal and non-standard thread the next best way. Based on what I've read heard about POI weapons I wouldn't buy one unless it was WAY cheap deal. Just can't figure out why others haven't found a way to make a removable brake system with BATF blessing. Am I alone in desiring a brake but not wanting a PERMANENT installation on a post-ban weapon? |
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Well boys, seems like most post-ban rifles that have some form of a brake have a threaded muzzle, with 1/2 X 28 threads. "How do you know", you ask ? Well, have an Armalite 16 inch carbine with a factory attached muzzle brake. Love the carbine, but the brake is just to LOUD ! ! So . . . drilled out the "blind pin", heated the brake to "soften" the silver solder, and screwed off the brake. An you know what ? ? ? A standard A2 flash suppressor will screw on the threads with no modification. However, smart enough to know that this is not LEGAL so installed a "fake brake" from Kurt's on the end of the barrel (silver soldered and blind pinned) Carbine is much more pleasant to shoot. Since the new fake brake is silver-soldered and pinned, it legal. Now not sure about other brands of AR's, but appears that Armalite uses a standard thread on the end of their post-ban barrels. |
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Here is an ATF reply to such a question March 31, 1998 BATF Firearms Technology Branch Washington, DC 20226 Greetings: I had some questions about permanently attaching muzzle brakes and barrel extensions to firearms. As you are aware, some barrels, particularly for some semi- automatic rifles, come with muzzle threads. However, it may be necessary, depending on the other features of the rifle, to remove those threads, in order to keep the firearm from being considered a "semi-automatic assault weapon". Additionally, some firearm barrels come in lengths below 16 inches, and in order to be installed on rifles without making the rifle subject to the National Firearms Act, an extension may be permanently attached to the end of the barrel, by muzzle threads, so as to make the barrel length at least 16 inches. I was wondering what methods of attachment to muzzle threads are considered permanent enough so as to either extend the barrel length, by use of an extension, or to remove the muzzle threads as a feature of a semi-automatic rifle which might otherwise be considered a "semiautomatic assault weapon" In particular, I have heard that welding is acceptable. If you can, please advise me of the method of welding, and the required weld coverage. I have also heard that high temperature silver solder is acceptable. If you can, please advise me as to the solder alloy, and melting temperature that would be considered permanent. I have also heard that some industrial adhesives are acceptable, in particular a product called "Rocksett". I would appreciate confirmation as to which, if any, industrial adhesives have been found to be acceptable. Also, if there are any other methods which I have not mentioned above, which have also been found to be acceptable methods of permanently installing muzzle devices onto rifles, I would appreciate it if you could advise me of what they are. Sincerely, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Washington, D.C. 20226 JUN 18 1998 F:FPD:FTB:RAT 3311 Dear Mr. : This refers to your letter of March 31, 1998, in which you ask about permanently attaching a muzzle device to various firearms. A muzzle device, such as a muzzle brake or barrel extension, which is attached to a barrel by means of welding or high temperature silver solder having a melting point of at least 1,100 degrees Fahrenheit, is considered to be part of the barrel for purposes of measurement. A seam weld extending at least one-half the circumference of the barrel or four equidistant tack welds around the circumference of the barrel are adequate for this purpose. A firearm having a muzzle brake, cap, or barrel extension permanently attached by those same methods to cover the threads on a barrel, would not be considered to have a threaded muzzle. Please note, however, that any muzzle device or barrel extension which functions as a flash suppressor or grenade launcher would still constitute one of the qualifying features of a semiautomatic assault weapon as that term is defined in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30(B). Industrial adhesive products are not an acceptable method for permanently attaching a muzzle device. - 2 - Mr. We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If you have further questions concerning this matter, please contact us. Sincerely yours, [signed] Edward M. Owen, Jr. Chief, Firearms Technology Branch |
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Read these conclusions I have made from this limitted information and correct as necessary: Threads that will accept a flash hider (suppressor also considered a flash hider) are one of the evils. If the threads are of size and pitch so as to mate with available evil parts they must be PERMANATELY covered or have a legal muzzle brake (or other non evil part) PERMANENTLY attached in aforementioned methods to keep from crossing over to the dark side. THEREFORE: The issue of PERMANANCE appears to be CONDITIONAL upon the presence of "standard" thread size and pitch that can accept EVIL parts. Nonstandard threads (no evil mating parts) or alternate means of attachment for legal muzzle brakes that do not involve threads appears to be OK. Set screws, aforementioned Professional Ordnance method or JP non standard thread (howitzer looking brake) are then OK. THE REMAINING QUESTION: Why are manufactureers not producing legal REMOVABLE muzzle brake attachment methods for those who wish to play both with and without a brake on one post-ban barrel? Again, am I alone in thinking this is an unfulfilled market? I like to have choices and the issue of a PERMANANT installation is therefore not favorable but this appears to be the predominant method for post-ban weapons. |
Bushmaster does exactly this on 16" and longer barrels. They don't thread the barrel. Instead, they slip a brake over the barrel and pin it in place with an exposed taper pin (exposed so you can remove it whenever you wish). Remember, though, that a lot of brakes are being put on 14.5" barrels, which aren't legal (on a non-SBR) unless the muzzle attachment that brings the total length over 16" is PERMANENTLY attached. -Troy |
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