Posted: 7/28/2014 8:43:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: coctailer][Edited]
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I wanted to share my experiences of making a purchase and subsequent return/refund from Ultimate Night Vision.
Tyler Adair was very helpful while engaged in the sale, and he certainly is a wealth of knowledge regarding thermal sights....(hence me June 5th post in their forum) However I originally purchased a FLIR RS64-35 from Ultimate Night Vision but was not happy with it and decided, within 48 hrs of receiving it, to return it to the retailer. It had never been mounted on a weapon or anything of that sort. All of the packaging was there and in was in 100% resalable condition. The UNV website says that it permits returns: “You may return new, unused, and resalable items for a refund or exchange. The item must be returned in its original product packaging within 15 days of delivery” While speaking to Tyler Adair on the phone to arrange the return, I could sense his reluctance to take the item back. He hemmed and hawed about the refund, stating that an exchange was fine, but a full refund was not possible since I had paid with a debit card and the fees he incurred on the transaction would not be refunded to him. At this point in time I became nervous about receiving my refund at all (Fears which would be borne out later). Mr. Adair stated he would refund my money by check rather than put it back on my card…and would charge me a $200 service fee. I thought this was odd, as there was no mention of a restocking charge on their website. I agreed to this fee only because I was fairly certain that if I didn’t, I would not receive a refund at all and would be stuck with an item I did not want. As per Mr. Adair’s instructions, I sent the item back via FedEx. It was received on June 10th June 18th (8 Days after the item was received), I still had not received the refund. I called Mr. Adair to ask about it and was informed that he assumed that I was going to make an exchange (which I found odd since we went back and forth about the service fee for 30 minutes) but he would mail be a check right away. June 26th (Another 8 days later), I still had not received a check. Now I was VERY concerned… A third phone call to Mr. Adair , and he said it must have been “Lost in the mail” and he would Fed EX me another one. I received a check for the purchase price (less $200) the next day. 6+weeks later, and I still have not seen the (supposedly lost in the mail) original refund check. Draw your own conclusions, but to me, the whole deal was shady. |
Fortune is apt to favor the man who keeps his nerve
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| Dispute the $200 fee with your credit card since it is not in his terms of sale. |
The danger is not Barack Obama but those who elected him. It will be easier to undo the follies of Obama than to restore good judgment to the masses. We can survive Obama, who is merely a fool. We are less likely to survive the fools who support him.
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Sounds like the company runs on razor thin margins and might not have had the cash on hand to refund you anything. ETA- At least a few companies I've worked for and know of play the "check only" refund game so they can keep cash pocketed as long as possible, or it's already spent on other due bills or whatever. Two of them, one a bar, and one a gun store, never had enough cash on hand, so even something as small as employee's cashing checks too late in the month would fuck their whole process up. |
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Bad form, but IMHO UNV had no idea whether or not you wanted nothing more than a free equipment rental.
Just playing Devil's advocate, and the refund process was absolutely mishandled and an explanation should be forthcoming. |
As a matter of fact, I DO know Jack! That guy's a jerk.
| For a full refund I would say $200 restocking fee is more than fair or exchange for another product no charge. The reason I say that is other wise I could order stuff all day long and return it with nothing to loose like stated above " A free rental" When a customer orders a $6000 product he or she has to take some responsibly for their choice and that is normally a 10% to 15% stocking fee at most retailers. That said I have returned a few items and ate the 10% to 15% and figured that was better than getting stuck with something I didn't like. The two times I returned NV gear I had to wait 10-20 days to have the funds back in my bank that includes time for the equipment to be checked/inspected upon return and the refund payment was issued by check both times even though I paid by CC also. Anyway I don't have a dog in your deal just stating how my returns were handled at other online retailers. |
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Adding to Terry's reply... all vendors pay merchant fees -- usually 3% or more depending upon what credit card you use. To keep those rates lower we have to meet certain thresholds. Refunds are a strike against merchants, as is fraud and other things. Rather than take the hit to his rates, he covered his losses on your buyer's remorse with the admin fee, which could have been much higher (this is why we have a restocking fee on our T&C on our website).
In our business, once we receive a return, unless it is still sealed and the customer never opened the item, we can no longer legally resell that as a NEW item. We have to sell it as used, refurbished, or open box, etc, which means it has been devalued. I'm just trying to look at this from the vendor's POV, as we peddle on the interwebs, too (nothing NV or ARF related). The delay is another matter, and is a legitimate concern. |
As a matter of fact, I DO know Jack! That guy's a jerk.
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Since our website did not specify the restocking fee(even though it was agreed upon with the customer) we have decided to refund the $200 to the OP. We have also updated the returns section on our website to alleviate this type of issue going forward. OP, thank you for your feedback, and I apologize for any inconvenience. I will take the blame for the missing information in our returns section of the website. Hope you are enjoying your new scope. We spend hours helping our customers before their purchase to mitigate these types of situations, and were happy to do so with the OP. Sometimes, a customer decides to go a different route or return a product for a reason previously addressed or for personal reasons. We understand and want to accommodate our customers as much as possible. Unfortunately, it's not always an easy process as in the OP's case. Pre-purchase evaluation is one of the main benefits to our rental program, and I urge anyone who might be uneasy about making an expensive thermal purchase to consider renting. For some customers the rental program is the only way to completely understand a unit's capabilities and avoid frivolous returns or "buyers remorse". Our rental program is perfect for this type of situation, the price of a rental can be applied towards a purchase. 100% in most cases. Thanks - Tyler |
www.UltimateNightVision.com
800.769.0159
[email protected]
Thermal - I^2 - Digital - Rentals
UltimateNightVision.com/AR15
800.769.0159
[email protected]
Thermal - I^2 - Digital - Rentals
UltimateNightVision.com/AR15
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Glad everything could be worked out in the end.
Personally, I have used the rental program includeing renting a RS64 1.1X scope. I can say I had did weeks of research on the RS64, spoke to a few owners plus dealers, searched out pricing and was ready to pull the trigger to buy my RS64. At the last second I choose to rent one first to be safe. Well I found out the RS64 while a nice scope just wasn't the model for me, so the rental fee ended up being the best money I have spend last few months! It saved me return fees, return shipping,wasted time,and a head ache! Most importantly not getting stuck with something I wasn't happy with costing over $6000 !!!! |
| I can certainly understand charging a restocking fee on something as expensive as thermal or NV gear to discourage people from essentially renting it for free for a week. But it needs to be stated on the website so both parties are aware of it going into the exchange. He should not have been charged the $200 fee since there is no mention of it on his site where it specifically talks about the return policy. He needs to refund you that $200 and adjust his return policy as needed going forward. |
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Originally Posted By dvp18:
I can certainly understand charging a restocking fee on something as expensive as thermal or NV gear to discourage people from essentially renting it for free for a week. But it needs to be stated on the website so both parties are aware of it going into the exchange. He should not have been charged the $200 fee since there is no mention of it on his site where it specifically talks about the return policy. He needs to refund you that $200 and adjust his return policy as needed going forward. I would agree, but will reserve final judgement until UNV chimes in with their side. I'm slowly learning that things aren't always as they seem. |
As a matter of fact, I DO know Jack! That guy's a jerk.
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Originally Posted By TheHorta:
Originally Posted By dvp18:
I can certainly understand charging a restocking fee on something as expensive as thermal or NV gear to discourage people from essentially renting it for free for a week. But it needs to be stated on the website so both parties are aware of it going into the exchange. He should not have been charged the $200 fee since there is no mention of it on his site where it specifically talks about the return policy. He needs to refund you that $200 and adjust his return policy as needed going forward. I would agree, but will reserve final judgement until UNV chimes in with their side. I'm slowly learning that things aren't always as they seem. True. I'm not advocating we break out the torches and pitchforks yet. I was planning to rent some stuff from them when I get closer to buying a thermal scope and would still like to be able to do that. |
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Originally Posted By fordkicksass:
Curious what you didn't like about the RS-64. I nearly bought one a few months ago but I aborted at the eleventh hour (had the cursor over "submit order" at Optics Planet). For a $6k+ item it felt "cheap". I think this was mostly due to the plastic body. FWIW, I purchased a THOR 336 4.5x from another vendor. I have been happy with it. Additionally, I have absolutely no problem with restocking fees ( or even un-returnable items) when that aspect of the transaction is stated up front. |
Fortune is apt to favor the man who keeps his nerve
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Originally Posted By SMC527:
Originally Posted By fordkicksass:
Curious what you didn't like about the RS-64. I nearly bought one a few months ago but I aborted at the eleventh hour (had the cursor over "submit order" at Optics Planet). For a $6k+ item it felt "cheap". I think this was mostly due to the plastic body. FWIW, I purchased a THOR 336 4.5x from another vendor. I have been happy with it. Additionally, I have absolutely no problem with restocking fees ( or even un-returnable items) when that aspect of the transaction is stated up front. Was the image on part with the Thor? I only ask because in two weeks I believe I will get to look through a Thor but don't know when I'll find a local RS to look through. |
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Originally Posted By SMC527:
Originally Posted By fordkicksass:
Curious what you didn't like about the RS-64. I nearly bought one a few months ago but I aborted at the eleventh hour (had the cursor over "submit order" at Optics Planet). For a $6k+ item it felt "cheap". I think this was mostly due to the plastic body. FWIW, I purchased a THOR 336 4.5x from another vendor. I have been happy with it. Additionally, I have absolutely no problem with restocking fees ( or even un-returnable items) when that aspect of the transaction is stated up front. I thought UNV offered a rental program where you could use any unit for a few days on-the-cheap so you know what you're buying in advance specifically to avoid these type of remorse issues? I would assume they also apply that rental fee to any final purchase. AFAIK they're the only reseller that offers this, which is a pretty compelling advantage. I've been informed there are other companies who rent thermal, etc. Regardless, the whole thing was a debacle could / should have been avoided. I'm just surprised the pre-buy rental option was never recommended or discussed. |
As a matter of fact, I DO know Jack! That guy's a jerk.
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Originally Posted By UNV:
Since our website did not specify the restocking fee(even though it was agreed upon with the customer) we have decided to refund the $200 to the OP. We have also updated the returns section on our website to alleviate this type of issue going forward. OP, thank you for your feedback, and I apologize for any inconvenience. I will take the blame for the missing information in our returns section of the website. Hope you are enjoying your new scope. We spend hours helping our customers before their purchase to mitigate these types of situations, and were happy to do so with the OP. Sometimes, a customer decides to go a different route or return a product for a reason previously addressed or for personal reasons. We understand and want to accommodate our customers as much as possible. Unfortunately, it's not always an easy process as in the OP's case. Pre-purchase evaluation is one of the main benefits to our rental program, and I urge anyone who might be uneasy about making an expensive thermal purchase to consider renting. For some customers the rental program is the only way to completely understand a unit's capabilities and avoid frivolous returns or "buyers remorse". Our rental program is perfect for this type of situation, the price of a rental can be applied towards a purchase. 100% in most cases. Thanks - Tyler That is SPECTACULAR! If I ever buy another thermal I will probably have to go that route. |
| So you purchase a 6K item, have it for 2 days, get buyers remorse, and are upset that they want to charge a restocking fee? Hope you enjoyed your "FREE" rental. Actually, it's not even free since it will cost UNV several hundred dollars that they'll have to discount it to resell it as "like new". Then to add insult to injury, you purchase another sight elsewhere. People who game the system like you are the reason that businesses have to waste their time with dotting their "i's" and crossing their "t's" in the fine print. |
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Originally Posted By jcriley:
So you purchase a 6K item, have it for 2 days, get buyers remorse, and are upset that they want to charge a restocking fee? Hope you enjoyed your "FREE" rental. Actually, it's not even free since it will cost UNV several hundred dollars that they'll have to discount it to resell it as "like new". Then to add insult to injury, you purchase another sight elsewhere. People who game the system like you are the reason that businesses have to waste their time with dotting their "i's" and crossing their "t's" in the fine print. Copy that...I have first-hand experience with the FLIR RS-Series, and the ATN ThOR. Hands down, the ATN Is a better unit. As for your dislike, you bought a $6,499 thermal and Ultimately got a very low $200 restocking refunded because of a public post on AR15. MOST companies charge a minimum 10% restocking fee ($649). Yup, you got a free rental. I'll stand up for Tyler and UNV. |