Posted: 1/4/2014 1:12:04 AM EDT
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I purchased a 15 inch Alpha battle rail with the three allen head screw/clamp attachment method. I have an M&P15T upper receiver that i am trying to mate with said rail. The problem(s) is/are that I don't understand what those three allen screw points are supposed to clamp on to exactly. I have tried mounting it flush against the uppers flat top rail, and of course screwing it down makes the rail separate about 2-3 mm, but that thing then wobbles all over the place. I tried pulling the rail out so its basically sitting against the barrel nut teeth, nothing works. I have tried three different stock barrel nuts from two different company's to no avail of cinching that thing down and it staying in place. I finally got tired of cranking barrel nuts on and off. i put this current one on right at 50 lbs and dremeled the tooth. Im gonna put some pictures up to try to get my point across. i need help, bad. this was 200 dollars i dont want to just throw in the garbage.
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag53/villiam6/IMG_22931_zps5ef05d6e.jpg http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag53/villiam6/IMG_22921_zpsf337da25.jpg http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag53/villiam6/IMG_22911_zpsc41b32ac.jpg http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag53/villiam6/IMG_22951_zps3e401426.jpg This is the final product^^^ every time. and it will move the rail in any direction |
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You need to loosen the 3 screws. The black "clips" inside the rail (shown in picture 2) clamp inside the barrel nut. The screws pull the clips tight against the nut and hold the rail in place. ETA: The screws may need to be loosened until barely engaging the clips to slip into the barrel nut.
You did not show the fit of the rail against the upper, but it probably doesn't mate with the upper because the 3 clips will not allow it to clear the barrel nut. With the screws loosened, you should be able to slide the rail all the way to the upper. Line it up and tighten the screws--probably 1/2 turn each working around to keep them even. Politics aside, it is a good product. |
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Quoted:
You need to loosen the 3 screws. The black "clips" inside the rail (shown in picture 2) clamp inside the barrel nut. The screws pull the clips tight against the nut and hold the rail in place. ETA: The screws may need to be loosened until barely engaging the clips to slip into the barrel nut. You did not show the fit of the rail against the upper, but it probably doesn't mate with the upper because the 3 clips will not allow it to clear the barrel nut. With the screws loosened, you should be able to slide the rail all the way to the upper. Line it up and tighten the screws--probably 1/2 turn each working around to keep them even. Politics aside, it is a good product. That makes sense, and Ill give it a shot. The instructions troy provides do absolutely nothing to tell me that. Thanks for the help! |
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You need to loosen the 3 screws. The black "clips" inside the rail (shown in picture 2) clamp inside the barrel nut. The screws pull the clips tight against the nut and hold the rail in place. ETA: The screws may need to be loosened until barely engaging the clips to slip into the barrel nut. You did not show the fit of the rail against the upper, but it probably doesn't mate with the upper because the 3 clips will not allow it to clear the barrel nut. With the screws loosened, you should be able to slide the rail all the way to the upper. Line it up and tighten the screws--probably 1/2 turn each working around to keep them even. Politics aside, it is a good product. I tried this twice yesterday, got frustrated, and then again just now. And once again I am frustrated. The clips slid into the barrel nut each time but when tightened they push too far out and clamp onto nothing. so the rail still wobbles around with any sort of resistance. I don't know why something that costs so much wouldn't have a proprietary barrel nut, maybe one of those screw on method types like so many other companies successfully use. OR have an end cap which would immediately extinguish the issue of the wobble and give the barrel nut mounting a little room for error. I'm about done with this rail and troy Industries for the unforeseeable future. I cant resolve the issue anywhere else either due to troy having like 864 products with the same name but different editions; everyone just has fixes for the trx battle rail. Ill just chalk this up as a $200 paperweight. |
| You need a new barrel nut. please don't grind any teeth down. The rail will never hold or work if you do that. Use the proper torque range for the barrel nut or take it to a gunsmith. Please IM or Email me your name and number or call in. I'll be able to help you. |
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I have installed several Alpha rails. Before that, it was TRX and VTAC-TRX. The TRX series used a proprietary barrel nut (at least the wrench was included) that people complained about. One of the improvements with the Alpha was that you didn't have to remove the barrel nut to install it if you were steady with a Dremel.
The Alpha seems to be a better overall design, but is a bit harder to install to the std barrel nut. TRX was easy to install once you swapped barrel nuts but was also easy to over tighten the mounting hardware. When mounted, does the top rail meet up with the upper receiver rail? That's the picture we need to see to try and help troubleshoot. Regardless, I'd take Stefan up on his offer. Hope you get it worked out. I like my rails--Alpha and TRX, even a VTAC for good measure. ETA: I read over your last post again. Are you putting the "leg" on the clip towards the muzzle? They shouldn't slip or push away when tightening. Your picture of the inside of rail shows one that looks correct. |
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I have installed several Alpha rails. Before that, it was TRX and VTAC-TRX. The TRX series used a proprietary barrel nut (at least the wrench was included) that people complained about. One of the improvements with the Alpha was that you didn't have to remove the barrel nut to install it if you were steady with a Dremel. The Alpha seems to be a better overall design, but is a bit harder to install to the std barrel nut. TRX was easy to install once you swapped barrel nuts but was also easy to over tighten the mounting hardware. When mounted, does the top rail meet up with the upper receiver rail? That's the picture we need to see to try and help troubleshoot. Regardless, I'd take Stefan up on his offer. Hope you get it worked out. I like my rails--Alpha and TRX, even a VTAC for good measure. ETA: I read over your last post again. Are you putting the "leg" on the clip towards the muzzle? They shouldn't slip or push away when tightening. Your picture of the inside of rail shows one that looks correct. the rail mates completely flush once installed over the barrel nut. I will have a picture tomorrow. and yes its nice for people who have to standard delta ring type AR but i had a 9" smith and wesson quad rail on the gun from the factory with S&W's proprietary barrel nut, so i had to switch it out for a mil-spec one anyway. the clips are possitioned just like in the picture. thats the only way they will line up with the screws anyway. |
| EDIT: I finally found a helpful video online. the reason I've been having trouble is because i dremeled out a tooth on the barrel nut to line everything up because the barrel not would not tune correctly with a torque wrench. The whole 5 degree turn thing makes more sense not and my rail was not "locking in" I dont have the energy to mess with it tonight but ill have pictures for anyone who cares of the final product tomorrow |
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Got it all sorted out guys, thanks. Here she is next to her little M&15-22 brother.
http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag53/villiam6/IMG_23261_zps2629098b.jpg |
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The reality was that your improper installation of the barrel nut is what caused the problem. Directions could always be more clear and Troy could probably save themselves some hassle by instructing customers at to the proper way to install a bbl nut. agreed |
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Just installed one myself today. Instructions are clear and concise. It requires a minimum of mechanical inclination. Manufacturer's likely assume this is the case. It takes but a minute to see that it only goes one way. given the fact that I had a barrel nut on the gun that was only compatible with the S&W quad rail that was removed, I had to go to a mil spec barrel nut. even after the fact that I had realized what I was doing wrong, I had to switch it out a few more times for other manufacturers mil-specs before I found one that was just right to work with my rail. This was my first "serious" AR modification and didn't go into the project with much knowledge. I now realize that it only went one way. Thanks for tootin your own horn on a topic thats two months old and very dealt with already. |
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given the fact that I had a barrel nut on the gun that was only compatible with the S&W quad rail that was removed, I had to go to a mil spec barrel nut. even after the fact that I had realized what I was doing wrong, I had to switch it out a few more times for other manufacturers mil-specs before I found one that was just right to work with my rail. This was my first "serious" AR modification and didn't go into the project with much knowledge. I now realize that it only went one way. Thanks for tootin your own horn on a topic thats two months old and very dealt with already. Quoted:
Quoted:
Just installed one myself today. Instructions are clear and concise. It requires a minimum of mechanical inclination. Manufacturer's likely assume this is the case. It takes but a minute to see that it only goes one way. given the fact that I had a barrel nut on the gun that was only compatible with the S&W quad rail that was removed, I had to go to a mil spec barrel nut. even after the fact that I had realized what I was doing wrong, I had to switch it out a few more times for other manufacturers mil-specs before I found one that was just right to work with my rail. This was my first "serious" AR modification and didn't go into the project with much knowledge. I now realize that it only went one way. Thanks for tootin your own horn on a topic thats two months old and very dealt with already. Not really tootin' horns, just a fresh perspective from what inevitably becomes a Troy bash fest these days. |
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given the fact that I had a barrel nut on the gun that was only compatible with the S&W quad rail that was removed, I had to go to a mil spec barrel nut. even after the fact that I had realized what I was doing wrong, I had to switch it out a few more times for other manufacturers mil-specs before I found one that was just right to work with my rail. This was my first "serious" AR modification and didn't go into the project with much knowledge. I now realize that it only went one way. Thanks for tootin your own horn on a topic thats two months old and very dealt with already. Quoted:
Quoted:
Just installed one myself today. Instructions are clear and concise. It requires a minimum of mechanical inclination. Manufacturer's likely assume this is the case. It takes but a minute to see that it only goes one way. given the fact that I had a barrel nut on the gun that was only compatible with the S&W quad rail that was removed, I had to go to a mil spec barrel nut. even after the fact that I had realized what I was doing wrong, I had to switch it out a few more times for other manufacturers mil-specs before I found one that was just right to work with my rail. This was my first "serious" AR modification and didn't go into the project with much knowledge. I now realize that it only went one way. Thanks for tootin your own horn on a topic thats two months old and very dealt with already. Can you tell me EXACTLY what barrel nut you had to use, and exactly what you had to do to make this fit. I was getting ready to order the 13" Alpha rail for my S&W M&P15 MOE but if I'm going to have to spend more money "rebuilding" the upper, then I might start looking elsewhere. You'd think for $200 for a piece of aluminum, you'd have everything you need for a simple install. |
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Mil spec barrel nut. Several rails mount against one. Others use proprietary barrel nuts. You've just got to know what you have and what you're buying.
A $200 rail is relatively affordable for a decent free float. The above post is correct. Your existing barrel nut works. |
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Can you tell me EXACTLY what barrel nut you had to use, and exactly what you had to do to make this fit. I was getting ready to order the 13" Alpha rail for my S&W M&P15 MOE but if I'm going to have to spend more money "rebuilding" the upper, then I might start looking elsewhere. You'd think for $200 for a piece of aluminum, you'd have everything you need for a simple install. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just installed one myself today. Instructions are clear and concise. It requires a minimum of mechanical inclination. Manufacturer's likely assume this is the case. It takes but a minute to see that it only goes one way. given the fact that I had a barrel nut on the gun that was only compatible with the S&W quad rail that was removed, I had to go to a mil spec barrel nut. even after the fact that I had realized what I was doing wrong, I had to switch it out a few more times for other manufacturers mil-specs before I found one that was just right to work with my rail. This was my first "serious" AR modification and didn't go into the project with much knowledge. I now realize that it only went one way. Thanks for tootin your own horn on a topic thats two months old and very dealt with already. Can you tell me EXACTLY what barrel nut you had to use, and exactly what you had to do to make this fit. I was getting ready to order the 13" Alpha rail for my S&W M&P15 MOE but if I'm going to have to spend more money "rebuilding" the upper, then I might start looking elsewhere. You'd think for $200 for a piece of aluminum, you'd have everything you need for a simple install. just a standard mil-spec. my m&p15 tactical had a proprietary nut for the s&w quad rail. no rebuilding needed, just was a pain in the ass getting the taper pin out of the gas block to remove the original barrel nut. |
| and yes I did improperly install and mangle the first DPMS mil-spec bbl nut, but the second one was not modified and also did not work even after I tried what worked on the final nut I used. Which is what caused all this bullshit and started this thread. That one was given to a buddy of mine, who also had the same issue, so now its scrap metal. I bought a bravo company bbl nut, and it worked a charm. |