Posted: 7/28/2011 6:54:43 AM EDT
| Just curious whr RR seems to be the most bashed brand of AR15 on most sites, I love mine, zero problems and more accurate than my Colt, its used 7 days a week on our ranch and not a safe queen at all. If I had to buy another I would buy another RR. It would be nice to see a nomex cover on the float tube of my Opr 2 as it gets so hot in this Texas 105+ heat. |
| RRA is not bashed nearly as much as a few others here. Take DPMS for example. Both of which I have. Both of them being fine rifles as well. There are many on this site who believe they are Tier 1 operators, and thus need top of the line equipment. Believe me, I have a BCM and Spikes tactical rifle as well. For me, I notice no deference in the brands. All are accurate and dependable. |
| Why do they get "bashed", I don't think they get bashed so much as criticized. Well I'll tell you it's not because of the quality of there products, in general it's very good. The problem with Rock River Arms is the constant premature advertisement and then extended delayed release times with there product line. They will post a release date then if lucky you'll get your hands on it two years latter,Just ask some of the people on this sight how long they had to wait for their LAR8's and now the magazines to make them function consistently. |
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I know a store here in Texas that you can walk into today and get an Opr 2 and out in 20 min for $1000 almost anytime, 10 min from me, also in visit to Nashville area they have lots of RR there, it took me 3 days to get mine and had several to choose from.
I was only referring to thr 223/556 cal. I never paid it any attention until I started reading here of the sub standard parts, 2 stage trigger problems etc, as I stated I love mine, I tried it with a 36x scope and it will shoot 1" moa at 100 5 shot groups with good ammo, I use an EOTech on it with a flip rear BU sight thats all, probably 4000+ rounds zero problems, cleaned every 2 weeks mostly for dust and before the drought, mud ! |
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Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. I waited nearly half a year for mine ordered direct from RRA.
If they are saying bad things its most likely either because they had a negative experience or someone they know had a negative experience. Most of what I hear is complaints on wait times and "tolerances". None of which I have had a problem with, I was told I was in line so I waited patiently, and my TO2 functions flawlessly every time. There will always be "haters", I have no problem defending my RRA, and it has no problem shooting down false claims at the range either. I love it to death and thats all that matters to me, they can hate it all they want. 
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Quoted: Why do they get "bashed", I don't think they get bashed so much as criticized. Well I'll tell you it's not because of the quality of there products, in general it's very good. The problem with Rock River Arms is the constant premature advertisement and then extended delayed release times with there product line. They will post a release date then if lucky you'll get your hands on it two years latter,Just ask some of the people on this sight how long they had to wait for their LAR8's and now the magazines to make them function consistently. +1 My problem with RR is not the product, its the way the company is run. Also I hate that they call certain models "operator". That is gay like the volleyball scene from Top Gun. |
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Quoted: "parabellum_9x19 +1 My problem with RR is not the product, its the way the company is run. Also I hate that they call certain models "operator". That is gay like the volleyball scene from Top Gun". You have inspired me. I'm naming my LAR8 carbine "the goose"  Oops, for the record I only posted that comment because I thought this thread was in GD.  |
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"parabellum_9x19
+1 My problem with RR is not the product, its the way the company is run. Also I hate that they call certain models "operator". That is gay like the volleyball scene from Top Gun". You have inspired me. I'm naming my LAR8 carbine "the goose"
Oops, for the record I only posted that comment because I thought this thread was in GD.
Who cares let em know how you feel. If they don't get feed back how in the hell are they going to know how their customer base feels or what they want. Oops I forgot they don't care  . If this was the old west and it's high noon you'd have no worries because RRA would draw about two years too late.
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So, a more polite way to put it is this: As a civilian, I am reluctant to consider an RRA operator due to the name. I like the overall design, but putting 'operator' on the side of the rifle is a turn off. Shooters want features, quality, and price, not cool titles. Also, the 'operator' is pretty heavy. |
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I typed up a whole long entry, but thought better of it before I pressed "submit" and cancelled it.
We all (the AR industry) get bashed from time to time on ARFCOM and elsewhere...it's the nature of the beast, so to speak. "Blog Love" is fickle and we all know it. We can't run our businesses based on it, but we do make note of it and of what you all have to say. Some input leads to positive changes in the way we do things, what we offer, how we offer it, etc... I normally let you all say what you want, within limits. I have only locked one thread in the past year, and threatened to lock one other. You can be critica of RRA and each other to a certain degree, but don't make it personal with me or amongst one another. This is a forum fo rth eexchange of information...not personal rants or tirades. Do we get blasted every now and then? Sure. Do we deserve it? Sometimes. There are multiple better ways of communicating with us, or any manufacturer, than anonymously posting in an obscure corner of an on-line forum. We have a toll-free number with 12 roll-over lines. I know you can't always get through on it, but one busy signal isn't the end of the world and if you try again, chances are the cal will be answered by a living breathing person who will direct your call to another living breathing person who will try to help you, or failing that, get you to someone who can. I have an e-mail listed in my profile and I answer IMs as I get the opportunity (believe it or not, monitoring ARFCOM is not my full time job. It isn't even supposed to be on my plate, but I took it back because t wasn't getting done otherwise). Two way communications (you know, the give and take of information) is always a better method than one way commo. One thing we get hit for on here a lot is the lead time...and more specifically not knowing exactly when YOUR order is going to ship. In most cases we don't have YOUR order. We have an order (or, most frequently) more than one order from your dealer. We don't have any idea who those orders are for...that's between you and your dealer. At the same time, your dealer's orders to us are between him and RRA. We don't talk to just anyone calling in to see what his dealer has on order. There's an expectation on the part of a lot of people that we should share customer information with them...and we're not going to. It goes as far as peopel who call in and tell us they met a guy named Roy from Smithville this weekend at the range, and he had a really cool AR, and can we give them his full name, address, and phone number. I'm not kidding. Or guys who call in and want to know how much their dealer paid for a rifle, cause their friend read on a website that mark-up is "like 300%" and he should have given me a better deal". Again, I'm not kidding. We hear a lot more of that kind of stuff becasue we are both dealer direct and we sell to individual customers rather than just selling through distributors or buyer groups. I'm not making excuses...just venting a little myself. Have a great weekend. Steve/RRA |
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Steve I could not be more pleased with my rifle, you may have been the person I spoke with 2 times on the phone, I am the guy from Texas on the ranch, my rifle is great 100% satisfied with it, I too dont like the word operator but its of no thought really to me. I have never seen the 'cult' following the ar's have really all is amusing to me, I am going to try the nomex cover from a supressor on the float tube to see if it fits as it does get very hot in the Texas 104 temps. I have also seen some lace leather on them for hand protection, I have several friends with the OP #2 also all of us are 100% pleased with them, we use these rifles daily 7 days a week. I hate to remove them but 3 sling attachments on the front is overkill! None of my friends here have anything on them but somekind of optic, all that just gets in the way here. A weekly blow off with an air compressor for dust and a biweekly clean and lube is all it gets. Excellent rifle!!
Larry |
Sounds like we hit a nerve  . Apologies Steve it's not personal just business, so don't take it that way. I personally have called and spoken to several "living breathing persons" on several occasions, not just about the LAR8 mag issue's but also spoken in detail to your head tech Randy and also BJ about the other design issue with the platform (they know who I am). The steel magazines drop out of the mag well if you accidentally hit (or tap hard ) the side of the mag well, not a deliberate push on the release button, even with an unloaded magazine. I explained the issue in detail to them and then proceeded to send both of my LAR8's back for repair. A few weeks latter I received my LAR8's back with some but little improvement, I'd say it's maybe 50% better at best. I then called back and spoke with Randy again to see exactly what was done, from his explanation the release was re profiled a bit and the springs replaced. I offered my idea for a modification to the release so this would become a non issue, I was told he would inquire about it. After that I heard nothing! Never got a call back e mail nothing. So Steve you see it's not that we want to bash, that is not the intention at all. We love RRA and give a damn enough to bring these things to your REPEATED attention to not only help us as CUSTOMERS but to help elevate the brand, attention to detail is all it will take. 
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Understood, but customer service/tech reps are primarily for walking callers through common issues that come up (and more advanced issues at times) and setting up return authorizations for issues they can't take care of by phone...not for engineering or design/redesign discussions. They aren't engineers, designers, or product development specialists. They 'll do whatever they can to help you, and will forward any ideas for product on to the appropriate people.
Thanks. Steve/RRA |
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Quoted:
So, a more polite way to put it is this: As a civilian, I am reluctant to consider an RRA operator due to the name. I like the overall design, but putting 'operator' on the side of the rifle is a turn off. Shooters want features, quality, and price, not cool titles. Also, the 'operator' is pretty heavy. HAHAHAHA seriously?!?!?! I can understand you because I don't talk to people named Bob, I meet a lot of great people but when they tell me their name is Bob, I just walk away. I think Bob is a gay name so Ill have nothing to do with it. 
Also, my TO2 does not say operator on it ANYWHERE, so if your turned off its a personal problem. 
Just for the record, the TO2 is a quality rifle with plenty of features at a GOOD price. Please tell us what else shooters want. 
And last time I checked 8 lbs out the box was pretty light, might I even say lighter than the average.
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The word "operator" should be laser-engraved on the right side of the magwell on an Operator or Operator-1 Series rifle. If it isn't, we messed-up.
It's kind of benign in my book, but I understand some folks not wanting it. Same as "Professional", "Tactical", "Special Forces" and other model designations on products by other manufacturers. Persdonally, If I wanted one and that was theonly thing stopping me, I would take advantage of th esale while it lasts and put a $70 Redimag on the rifle (covering the laser engraving)and still be $400+ on the good side of the deal (and have someplace to put the free second mag that comes with it). Steve/RRA |
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Yea your totally right (obviously), it says Operator right on the side hahaha I don't know how I never noticed haha
I just found it funny that in the same post he says, "he is reluctant to buy the rifle because of its name", and in the very next line, shooters are not looking for a "cool" name. If your gonna contradict yourself in the same post, why even post in the first place? As for the personal problem, my mistake, maybe he doesn't have one so I owe an apology haha. But Im hard pressed to find a rifle that "turns me off". I saw the rifle first and the deal second, never even gave a thought to the name. |
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Quoted: Quoted: So, a more polite way to put it is this: As a civilian, I am reluctant to consider an RRA operator due to the name. I like the overall design, but putting 'operator' on the side of the rifle is a turn off. Shooters want features, quality, and price, not cool titles. Also, the 'operator' is pretty heavy. HAHAHAHA seriously?!?!?! I can understand you because I don't talk to people named Bob, I meet a lot of great people but when they tell me their name is Bob, I just walk away. I think Bob is a gay name so Ill have nothing to do with it. Also, my TO2 does not say operator on it ANYWHERE, so if your turned off its a personal problem. Just for the record, the TO2 is a quality rifle with plenty of features at a GOOD price. Please tell us what else shooters want. And last time I checked 8 lbs out the box was pretty light, might I even say lighter than the average. My PSA AR is 6.8lbs with a loaded 30rd PMAG, and a weapon light. 8lbs out of the box is on the heavy end. Well onto the heavy end. Its still a great rifle, but the weight and tacticool branding on the side are a turnoff. Would I buy one if it was at the right price? Sure. Would I probably cover the part that says "operator", yes. |
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Weight and whether or not a rifle is heavy is relative to the point of comparison. Eight pounds doesn't seem too bad when an empty M1 Garand is 9.5 pounds, and an empty M1A1 Thompson SMG is closer to 10 pounds than the claimed 9.6 pounds.
We never tried to make the Operator-2s light weights, nor claimed that they are. We can make a lighter rifle, but that wasn't what we set out to do in this case. As to the engraving...like I said, I don't particualrly like "billboarding" either, and would cover it if it bothered me. Back to the context of this threads however...do the particualrs of a specific model preclude liking anything from the manufacturer of that rifle? With the total number of subs and upgrades available on our rifles, we have MILLIONS of different possible configurations available to the end-user. Anyhow...have a great weekend everyone. Steve/RRA |
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Quoted:
Understood, but customer service/tech reps are primarily for walking callers through common issues that come up (and more advanced issues at times) and setting up return authorizations for issues they can't take care of by phone...not for engineering or design/redesign discussions. They aren't engineers, designers, or product development specialists. They 'll do whatever they can to help you, and will forward any ideas for product on to the appropriate people. Thanks. Steve/RRA Steve, thanks for the reply. "They 'll do whatever they can to help you, and will forward any ideas for product on to the appropriate people. Thanks." "They 'll do whatever they can to help you," This I believe they did. " and will forward any ideas for product on to the appropriate people." This they did not, I have heard nothing. Is there something you can do? Thanks 
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you know its easy to get aggrevated. I have an issue with the bolt hold open device on my lar-8 . I called and talked to a tech. he suggested a few fixes but they have all failed . I have my own ideas as to the issue but I am an electrician not a gunsmith so I will not speculate on this forum. we tend to forget we are not the only people with issues and what seems like a moutain to us may only be a mole-hill in the grand scheme of things . I am waiting on the new mags to see if my problem is mag related or I need to just send it back .
Steve I understand where your coming from as I deal with the public and industrial people every day . I have a t-shirt that says I am an electrician not a magician . |
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you know its easy to get aggrevated. I have an issue with the bolt hold open device on my lar-8 . I called and talked to a tech. he suggested a few fixes but they have all failed . I have my own ideas as to the issue but I am an electrician not a gunsmith so I will not speculate on this forum. we tend to forget we are not the only people with issues and what seems like a moutain to us may only be a mole-hill in the grand scheme of things . I am waiting on the new mags to see if my problem is mag related or I need to just send it back . Steve I understand where your coming from as I deal with the public and industrial people every day . I have a t-shirt that says I am an electrician not a magician . Yea but I bet you know the difference between 120V and 220V and how to install, because that's your profession. No different than a gunsmith or manufacture knowing theirs. Guess some people just have lo expectations and don't mind not getting what they were promised and paid for. 
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I ordered a 6.8 from a dealer, after 114 days I cancelled the order.
It was the dealers fault, not RRA's. So I figure some dealers are to blame for some of the delays. I talked to Steve at RRA and he was very patient with me and my questions. I even got to meet Steve, nice guy.
I ended up buying my 6.8 from Randy at Hilltop Gun Shop in Colona. Tough looking guy, but very friendly and knowledgable, he was of great help. I have put about 1k rounds through my RRA 6.8 and I love it, ZERO problems. Buy the way, Randy might need a slight trim on his hair cut. J/K
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I ordered a 6.8 from a dealer, after 114 days I cancelled the order. It was the dealers fault, not RRA's. So I figure some dealers are to blame for some of the delays. I talked to Steve at RRA and he was very patient with me and my questions. I even got to meet Steve, nice guy.
I ended up buying my 6.8 from Randy at Hilltop Gun Shop in Colona. Tough looking guy, but very friendly and knowledgable, he was of great help. I have put about 1k rounds through my RRA 6.8 and I love it, ZERO problems. Buy the way, Randy might need a slight trim on his hair cut. J/KThat's Terry, not Randy. Anyway, I do remember your visit here at the shop. I wouldn't recommend trying to leave your wife out in the car in the parking lot this time of year...she might learn to like 6.8 also. Undertaker: Just becasue you haven't heard back from anyone doesn't mean that the gist of the information wasn't passed on. We get literally hundreds of suggestions monthly. Some are way too far out there and are pretty much not given serious consideration (Are you guys working on ray guns yet? I read on an internet forum that...") while other come to me (new product development) and others go to quality control/engineering for consideration. We also have continuous programs of our own that are on-going and many of the suggestions we get from dealers and/or consumers are already included in something we're already doing/working on/playing with. Engineering changes aren't just a matter of changing soem drawings and passing them out to vendors, machinists, programmers, etc...they are a long, drawn-out process that includes looking at the effect that the proposed change may or may not have on the rest of the product...mechanically, physically, aesthetically... Like the Thermold magazines. I've been working with them for over a year. We can't cost-effectively spend hours modifying individual magazines...but they can certainly modify or make molds incorporating changes to mass produce magazines. We've been going through that process since last fall...but each change to a mold takes a month or more, and new molds are sevral months. That means a lot of time during which a program is moving forward, but there's no news. And when the changes are made, you start back at square one inthe testing protocols, and repeat the same procedures agian and again until happy (or at least content)with the final product. Steve/RRA Steve/RRA |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
you know its easy to get aggrevated. I have an issue with the bolt hold open device on my lar-8 . I called and talked to a tech. he suggested a few fixes but they have all failed . I have my own ideas as to the issue but I am an electrician not a gunsmith so I will not speculate on this forum. we tend to forget we are not the only people with issues and what seems like a moutain to us may only be a mole-hill in the grand scheme of things . I am waiting on the new mags to see if my problem is mag related or I need to just send it back . Steve I understand where your coming from as I deal with the public and industrial people every day . I have a t-shirt that says I am an electrician not a magician . Yea but I bet you know the difference between 120V and 220V and how to install, because that's your profession. No different than a gunsmith or manufacture knowing theirs. Guess some people just have lo expectations and don't mind not getting what they were promised and paid for.
make that the difference between 120v and 138,000 v . no worry it will let you know the difference. 
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That's Terry, not Randy. Anyway, I do remember your visit here at the shop. I wouldn't recommend trying to leave your wife out in the car in the parking lot this time of year...she might learn to like 6.8 also. Whoops, you're right its Terry not Randy. Always had trouble with names. 
She decided to stay in the car that day, she isn't into guns but she indulges me in my like for them.
You're right she wouldn't appreciate the heat this time of the year. |
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I own 6 RRAs: one A2, two M4gerys, and 3 1911s. My primary go-to guns are my RRA 1911s (one a Commander, the other a Govt) and my M4.
I love your products and only wish you were still in the 1911 business. Mark Z. and his buds did a terrific job making those pistols. They all run like Swiss watches. Great guns. |
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You never know what the future holds. We still have a few 1911s around-if you need to know what we have, please contact our retail sales manager, Ulanda, at 866-980-7625. You may have noticed that we reintroduced some of the 1911 parts that we made/make back into the catalog this year as well. We were getting a pretty good demand for them, had sold out what we had, and decided to meet the demand with new product.
Steve/RRA |
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Don't tease me, Daddy.
Actually, I understand the business decision aspect of this. 1911s are extremely labor intensive to produce and repair. Well, the good ones are, anyway. And the RRA 1911s were certainly in the same class as Brown/Baer/perhaps Wilson so we're talking a lot of time and higher cost to produce. However, you may want to consider looking at the Kimber price range (around $1K or thereabouts) for production. Many people would love to get into higher end 1911s but in this economic environment simply cannot afford the cost. They end up going with Kimbers or some other comparable brand. If you could figure a way to produce a product that would compete with Kimber you may have yourself a big winner. Knowing RRA's quality you could give Kimber quite a run for their money, and your production costs would be lower. Just my opinion. Mike Loyal RRA customer ps Regards to Mark Z. - great guy and super gunsmith! |
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Don't tease me, Daddy. Actually, I understand the business decision aspect of this. 1911s are extremely labor intensive to produce and repair. Well, the good ones are, anyway. And the RRA 1911s were certainly in the same class as Brown/Baer/perhaps Wilson so we're talking a lot of time and higher cost to produce. However, you may want to consider looking at the Kimber price range (around $1K or thereabouts) for production. Many people would love to get into higher end 1911s but in this economic environment simply cannot afford the cost. They end up going with Kimbers or some other comparable brand. If you could figure a way to produce a product that would compete with Kimber you may have yourself a big winner. Knowing RRA's quality you could give Kimber quite a run for their money, and your production costs would be lower. Just my opinion. Mike Loyal RRA customer ps Regards to Mark Z. - great guy and super gunsmith! I enjoy carrying my Springfields but there is nothing that I have ever shot that felt as good as the NM 1911's. I along with you really wish they would bring them back out on a full run. Absolutely incredible pistols and i can't say enough about the rifles as well. Ted |