[ARCHIVED THREAD] - why keep making mid length upper? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/2/2015 6:39:18 PM EDT
most of uppers i see on PSA now are mid length, why? not like they are flying off shelves 
make some carbines please I'd love to get a cheap PTAC (or PSA if cheap) carbine upper with lightweight/pencil barrel, people have enough M4 barrels, time to make lightweight/pencil |
|
Quoted:
most of uppers i see on PSA now are mid length, why? not like they are flying off shelves
make some carbines please I'd love to get a cheap PTAC (or PSA if cheap) carbine upper with lightweight barrel Is there anything a 16" carbine upper can do that a 16" middy can't? |
|
Quoted:
Is there anything a 16" carbine upper can do that a 16" middy can't? Quoted:
Quoted:
most of uppers i see on PSA now are mid length, why? not like they are flying off shelves
make some carbines please I'd love to get a cheap PTAC (or PSA if cheap) carbine upper with lightweight barrel Is there anything a 16" carbine upper can do that a 16" middy can't? same can be asked in reverse I just don't like middy
|
.
|
Also, not that it matters but, middys will accept a bayonet the same way a 20" upper would. The carbines that our military uses are the. 14.5" barrels which too will take a bayo since the FSB is closer to the muzzle.
Also, the additonal 2" of sight radius on the middy will give a better accuracy potential then a carbine length system. I own all three, car, mid and rifle length. Find myself shooting my middy the most, then my a4 clone, an last is the carbine. We all know the carbine cycles the most violently, and rifle the softest. The middy is a proven design that is a good middle ground of cycle action and handguard length. The softer the cycle, the less wear on moving parts and adds to the longevity of your weapon. Middys are "oddball" right now but they are bcoming ever more popular as shooters learn benifits iv stated above. In no way am i bashing carbines, but im sold on middy performance at the same price point |
|
Quoted:
because it sells. thats why. Quoted:
Quoted:
most of uppers i see on PSA now are mid length, why? not like they are flying off shelves
make some carbines please I'd love to get a cheap PTAC (or PSA if cheap) carbine upper with lightweight barrel because it sells. thats why. THIS. For the longest time, they would offer middy's here and there and they would sell out almost instantly while the carbines sat for days. It's quite clear that more people wanted middy's. Now they are listening and offering MORE middy's and they STILL sell quick. The move to middy's is HUGE and it's going to get bigger. A middy does everything a carbine can and more. More handguard, longer sight radius, correct bayo mounting, and (subjective) a more pleasing "proportionate" appearance. |
|
Quoted:
THIS. For the longest time, they would offer middy's here and there and they would sell out almost instantly while the carbines sat for days. It's quite clear that more people wanted middy's. Now they are listening and offering MORE middy's and they STILL sell quick. The move to middy's is HUGE and it's going to get bigger. A middy does everything a carbine can and more. More handguard, longer sight radius, correct bayo mounting, and (subjective) a more pleasing "proportionate" appearance. I'm somewhat new to the AR world, at least in regards to building. I've owned a rifle length A2 set up and still have a carbine that I've owned for years, but when I first discovered PSA about a year ago I got one of their PTAC middies and was so pleased I purchased another, and another. lol Anyway, I agree completely about what maverick said above. I like the longer sight radius and look over the carbine specifically. I just wish they'd offer more 18 inch barreled uppers. Darin. |
|
Quoted:
THIS. For the longest time, they would offer middy's here and there and they would sell out almost instantly while the carbines sat for days. It's quite clear that more people wanted middy's. Now they are listening and offering MORE middy's and they STILL sell quick. The move to middy's is HUGE and it's going to get bigger. A middy does everything a carbine can and more. More handguard, longer sight radius, correct bayo mounting, and (subjective) a more pleasing "proportionate" appearance. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
most of uppers i see on PSA now are mid length, why? not like they are flying off shelves
make some carbines please I'd love to get a cheap PTAC (or PSA if cheap) carbine upper with lightweight barrel because it sells. thats why. THIS. For the longest time, they would offer middy's here and there and they would sell out almost instantly while the carbines sat for days. It's quite clear that more people wanted middy's. Now they are listening and offering MORE middy's and they STILL sell quick. The move to middy's is HUGE and it's going to get bigger. A middy does everything a carbine can and more. More handguard, longer sight radius, correct bayo mounting, and (subjective) a more pleasing "proportionate" appearance. no i find middy ugly to be honest, and top heavy compares to carbine |
|
Quoted:
This! It does shoot softer with better accuracy if using iron sights. Quoted:
Quoted:
Not really, I find my mid lengths shoot softer. The "softer" shooting aspect of a middy is purely subjective and IMO, mostly hype. Its going to vary setup to setup and in my case, I have as many middys as I do carbines and I can't tell a difference between them when shooting. Carbines have a higher chance of being being over gassed than a middy does, but not all carbines are actually overgassed. Its a fairly easy problem to fix if they are. It comes down to aesthetics mostly. Do you use a FSB? Do you prefer a longer sight radius? Do you even use iron sights? IF you do use Irons and desire a FSB, then yes, a longer handguard is nice. Otherwise there really aren't any real functional differences between a Middy and Carbine. Get whatever you prefer and be happy with your purchase. Different strokes for different folks.... |
|
Quoted:
The "softer" shooting aspect of a middy is purely subjective and IMO, mostly hype. Its going to vary setup to setup and in my case, I have as many middys as I do carbines and I can't tell a difference between them when shooting. Carbines have a higher chance of being being over gassed than a middy does, but not all carbines are actually overgassed. Its a fairly easy problem to fix if they are. It comes down to aesthetics mostly. Do you use a FSB? Do you prefer a longer sight radius? Do you even use iron sights? IF you do use Irons and desire a FSB, then yes, a longer handguard is nice. Otherwise there really aren't any real functional differences between a Middy and Carbine. Get whatever you prefer and be happy with your purchase. Different strokes for different folks.... Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not really, I find my mid lengths shoot softer. The "softer" shooting aspect of a middy is purely subjective and IMO, mostly hype. Its going to vary setup to setup and in my case, I have as many middys as I do carbines and I can't tell a difference between them when shooting. Carbines have a higher chance of being being over gassed than a middy does, but not all carbines are actually overgassed. Its a fairly easy problem to fix if they are. It comes down to aesthetics mostly. Do you use a FSB? Do you prefer a longer sight radius? Do you even use iron sights? IF you do use Irons and desire a FSB, then yes, a longer handguard is nice. Otherwise there really aren't any real functional differences between a Middy and Carbine. Get whatever you prefer and be happy with your purchase. Different strokes for different folks.... It's not subjective or hype. It's science. Less gas pressure further from the chamber will result in a softer shooting gun as well as less wear and tear on the gun. Bottom line. I'll take my mid length rifles over carbine all day every day. |
|
Quoted:
It's not subjective or hype. It's science. Less gas pressure further from the chamber will result in a softer shooting gun as well as less wear and tear on the gun. Bottom line. I'll take my mid length rifles over carbine all day every day. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not really, I find my mid lengths shoot softer. The "softer" shooting aspect of a middy is purely subjective and IMO, mostly hype. Its going to vary setup to setup and in my case, I have as many middys as I do carbines and I can't tell a difference between them when shooting. Carbines have a higher chance of being being over gassed than a middy does, but not all carbines are actually overgassed. Its a fairly easy problem to fix if they are. It comes down to aesthetics mostly. Do you use a FSB? Do you prefer a longer sight radius? Do you even use iron sights? IF you do use Irons and desire a FSB, then yes, a longer handguard is nice. Otherwise there really aren't any real functional differences between a Middy and Carbine. Get whatever you prefer and be happy with your purchase. Different strokes for different folks.... It's not subjective or hype. It's science. Less gas pressure further from the chamber will result in a softer shooting gun as well as less wear and tear on the gun. Bottom line. I'll take my mid length rifles over carbine all day every day. It is subjective. For those that want to tell me I can feel a difference between middys and carbines, all I can do is roll my eyes. I can swap buffers and springs between my middys and carbines and make any of them shoot harder or softer than the other. When set up properly, there isn't much difference. Although trying to convince carbine haters of that is pointless. GM vs Chevy, BCM vs Spikes, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...... An opinion doesnt make something fact... |
|
Quoted:
It is subjective. For those that want to tell me I can feel a difference between middys and carbines, all I can do is roll my eyes. I can swap buffers and springs between my middys and carbines and make any of them shoot harder or softer than the other. When set up properly, there isn't much difference. Although trying to convince carbine haters of that is pointless. GM vs Chevy, BCM vs Spikes, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...... An opinion doesnt make something fact... Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not really, I find my mid lengths shoot softer. The "softer" shooting aspect of a middy is purely subjective and IMO, mostly hype. Its going to vary setup to setup and in my case, I have as many middys as I do carbines and I can't tell a difference between them when shooting. Carbines have a higher chance of being being over gassed than a middy does, but not all carbines are actually overgassed. Its a fairly easy problem to fix if they are. It comes down to aesthetics mostly. Do you use a FSB? Do you prefer a longer sight radius? Do you even use iron sights? IF you do use Irons and desire a FSB, then yes, a longer handguard is nice. Otherwise there really aren't any real functional differences between a Middy and Carbine. Get whatever you prefer and be happy with your purchase. Different strokes for different folks.... It's not subjective or hype. It's science. Less gas pressure further from the chamber will result in a softer shooting gun as well as less wear and tear on the gun. Bottom line. I'll take my mid length rifles over carbine all day every day. It is subjective. For those that want to tell me I can feel a difference between middys and carbines, all I can do is roll my eyes. I can swap buffers and springs between my middys and carbines and make any of them shoot harder or softer than the other. When set up properly, there isn't much difference. Although trying to convince carbine haters of that is pointless. GM vs Chevy, BCM vs Spikes, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...... An opinion doesnt make something fact... You're clearly living in your own world where you're right and that's that. But you're wrong. My "opinion" is fact. Gas pressure is lower at a mid length port than a carbine port. The mid length gun will shoot softer than the carbine, and myself and just about everyone I know who does a fair amount of shooting can tell the difference in felt recoil between the two. Go push your incorrect bs somewhere else. |
|
How dare I speak out against the middy myth... lol
Whatever floats your boat pal, you & yours are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to my own. The day someone can show me an extensive and conclusive test to confirm your OPINION, I will eat some crow. Since nobody has done so by now, I'm willing to wager it won't/can't happen. Gotta love the interwebz... lol |
|
Quoted:
How dare I speak out against the middy myth... lol Whatever floats your boat pal, you & yours are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to my own. The day someone can show me an extensive and conclusive test to confirm your OPINION, I will eat some crow. Since nobody has done so by now, I'm willing to wager it won't/can't happen. Gotta love the interwebz... lol Yep, no tests at all...I mean...minus the shit ton that come up if you google it that show that I'm correct. Here's one of the thousand you can find. 
But yeah, other than all those, no tests. I get the idea that you don't really know wtf you're talking about....like at all. |
|
Quoted:
Yep, no tests at all...I mean...minus the shit ton that come up if you google it that show that I'm correct. Here's one of the thousand you can find. You apparently don't know much about guns... http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/223plot.gif But yeah, other than all those, no tests. Quoted:
Quoted:
How dare I speak out against the middy myth... lol Whatever floats your boat pal, you & yours are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to my own. The day someone can show me an extensive and conclusive test to confirm your OPINION, I will eat some crow. Since nobody has done so by now, I'm willing to wager it won't/can't happen. Gotta love the interwebz... lol Yep, no tests at all...I mean...minus the shit ton that come up if you google it that show that I'm correct. Here's one of the thousand you can find. You apparently don't know much about guns... http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/223plot.gif But yeah, other than all those, no tests. 
Perceived recoil is a different animal than a graph. Set up a test with 2 identically configured rifles, one middy, one carbine. Do some testing with varying Buffers and springs, then get back to me. I've looked around for such a test and have yet to see one. Even if there is a slight amount of difference, it is often imperceptible to a lot of people. I honestly cannot tell a difference between them. I have no dog in this race tbh, I own several of both and will continue to buy both. I just find the whole "middy shoots softer" thing to be vastly overhyped and that is MY experience with the platform. I guess if people are super sensitive to the light 5.56 recoil they should probably eat more Wheaties or something. I'm done with this pointless disagreement... |
|
Quoted:
It's not subjective or hype. It's science. Less gas pressure further from the chamber will result in a softer shooting gun as well as less wear and tear on the gun. Bottom line. I'll take my mid length rifles over carbine all day every day. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not really, I find my mid lengths shoot softer. The "softer" shooting aspect of a middy is purely subjective and IMO, mostly hype. Its going to vary setup to setup and in my case, I have as many middys as I do carbines and I can't tell a difference between them when shooting. Carbines have a higher chance of being being over gassed than a middy does, but not all carbines are actually overgassed. Its a fairly easy problem to fix if they are. It comes down to aesthetics mostly. Do you use a FSB? Do you prefer a longer sight radius? Do you even use iron sights? IF you do use Irons and desire a FSB, then yes, a longer handguard is nice. Otherwise there really aren't any real functional differences between a Middy and Carbine. Get whatever you prefer and be happy with your purchase. Different strokes for different folks.... It's not subjective or hype. It's science. Less gas pressure further from the chamber will result in a softer shooting gun as well as less wear and tear on the gun. Bottom line. I'll take my mid length rifles over carbine all day every day. I can tell you from pure physics point of view, "recoil" is the same, no gimmick can change physics, as long as the bullet leaves the muzzle with the same velocity, the recoil momentum is the exact opposite of what the bullet carries, regardless of what kind of rifles you have. you can change the "felt recoil" by using say heavier gun or rubber pad, but you can't change total recoil momentum and, what middy does has nothing to do with gun's recoil or "felt recoil", it basically uses a bit different gas to cycle the BCG, it has no direct relationship with gun's recoil, use a rubber pad will do more for the "felt recoil" than any gas system will do |
|
Quoted:
It is subjective. For those that want to tell me I can feel a difference between middys and carbines, all I can do is roll my eyes. I can swap buffers and springs between my middys and carbines and make any of them shoot harder or softer than the other. When set up properly, there isn't much difference. Although trying to convince carbine haters of that is pointless. GM vs Chevy, BCM vs Spikes, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...... An opinion doesnt make something fact... Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not really, I find my mid lengths shoot softer. The "softer" shooting aspect of a middy is purely subjective and IMO, mostly hype. Its going to vary setup to setup and in my case, I have as many middys as I do carbines and I can't tell a difference between them when shooting. Carbines have a higher chance of being being over gassed than a middy does, but not all carbines are actually overgassed. Its a fairly easy problem to fix if they are. It comes down to aesthetics mostly. Do you use a FSB? Do you prefer a longer sight radius? Do you even use iron sights? IF you do use Irons and desire a FSB, then yes, a longer handguard is nice. Otherwise there really aren't any real functional differences between a Middy and Carbine. Get whatever you prefer and be happy with your purchase. Different strokes for different folks.... It's not subjective or hype. It's science. Less gas pressure further from the chamber will result in a softer shooting gun as well as less wear and tear on the gun. Bottom line. I'll take my mid length rifles over carbine all day every day. It is subjective. For those that want to tell me I can feel a difference between middys and carbines, all I can do is roll my eyes. I can swap buffers and springs between my middys and carbines and make any of them shoot harder or softer than the other. When set up properly, there isn't much difference. Although trying to convince carbine haters of that is pointless. GM vs Chevy, BCM vs Spikes, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...... An opinion doesnt make something fact... +1 if the carbine is not overgassed that slams the tube end, it can shoot as soft as any middy |
|
Quoted:
Yep, no tests at all...I mean...minus the shit ton that come up if you google it that show that I'm correct. Here's one of the thousand you can find. http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/223plot.gif But yeah, other than all those, no tests. I get the idea that you don't really know wtf you're talking about....like at all. Quoted:
Quoted:
How dare I speak out against the middy myth... lol Whatever floats your boat pal, you & yours are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to my own. The day someone can show me an extensive and conclusive test to confirm your OPINION, I will eat some crow. Since nobody has done so by now, I'm willing to wager it won't/can't happen. Gotta love the interwebz... lol Yep, no tests at all...I mean...minus the shit ton that come up if you google it that show that I'm correct. Here's one of the thousand you can find. http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/223plot.gif But yeah, other than all those, no tests. I get the idea that you don't really know wtf you're talking about....like at all. do you know the gun is being pushed back from "travel length" in your graph 0" all the way to 16" (or whatever you barrel length is), recoil is being added all the way 0"-16" (same for both carbine or middy), the "mid length" mark is only the point gas is taken to cycle the BCG, not that "recoil" only happens at that point. what kind of gas pressure the gun uses to cycle BCG has no direct relationship with recoil |
|
Considering everyone here are operators who operate and are in the middle of work-ups for their next deployment, I would base my decision on personal perference. Unless you're looking for a "mission specific platform" that will truly benefit from one gas system over another, quit plodding through this muddied body of water and go with your gut.
It kills me when a plinker over-thinks the whole AR build crisis. ARs are Legos for adults. Building them is supposed to be fun as opposed to bring out all of the tier 1 operators with their airsoft war PTSD experiences about how one gas system out performs the other. Pick one and go with it. If it doesn't do what you want it to do, here's a shokcer...YOU CAN BUILD ANOTHER ONE. 
|
|
another drawback of middy is, the dwell time is shorter than carbine, which could lower the reliability of cycling
from the data below, you can see dwell time of a middy 16" is about 0.181ms, which is about the same as a 13" carbine 16" carbine dwell time is 0.248ms, which is way longer 
|
|
Quoted:
same can be asked in reverse I just don't like middy Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
most of uppers i see on PSA now are mid length, why? not like they are flying off shelves
make some carbines please I'd love to get a cheap PTAC (or PSA if cheap) carbine upper with lightweight barrel Is there anything a 16" carbine upper can do that a 16" middy can't? same can be asked in reverse I just don't like middy can a 16" carbine properly mount a bayonet? Have an extra 2" of sight radius? Have the proper dwell time? I (and lots of other people) just dont like carbines Let the market speak |
|
Quoted:
can a 16" carbine properly mount a bayonet? Have an extra 2" of sight radius? Have the proper dwell time? I (and lots of other people) just dont like carbines Let the market speak Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
most of uppers i see on PSA now are mid length, why? not like they are flying off shelves
make some carbines please I'd love to get a cheap PTAC (or PSA if cheap) carbine upper with lightweight barrel Is there anything a 16" carbine upper can do that a 16" middy can't? same can be asked in reverse I just don't like middy can a 16" carbine properly mount a bayonet? Have an extra 2" of sight radius? Have the proper dwell time? I (and lots of other people) just dont like carbines Let the market speak bayonet? 1918? 2" sight radius as if you can notice the difference :D dwell time of middy is actually shorter than carbine, see my post above yours |
|
Quoted:
bayonet? 1918? 2" sight radius as if you can notice the difference :D dwell time of middy is actually shorter than carbine, see my post above yours Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
most of uppers i see on PSA now are mid length, why? not like they are flying off shelves
make some carbines please I'd love to get a cheap PTAC (or PSA if cheap) carbine upper with lightweight barrel Is there anything a 16" carbine upper can do that a 16" middy can't? same can be asked in reverse I just don't like middy can a 16" carbine properly mount a bayonet? Have an extra 2" of sight radius? Have the proper dwell time? I (and lots of other people) just dont like carbines Let the market speak bayonet? 1918? 2" sight radius as if you can notice the difference :D dwell time of middy is actually shorter than carbine, see my post above yours Bayonets come in handy for hog hunting, and its something your carbine can't do that extra 2" are a big deal for my crap eyes, to the point where i only have middys and rifles now So The dwell time on the m16 is exactly the same as a 16" carbine? The mid length gas system creates less wear and tear on parts, and if we compare a middy to a carbine (keeping everything else equal, only fair), the middy will shoot softer By your logic, a rifle length gas system is completely unreliable |
|
Quoted:
Bayonets come in handy for hog hunting, and its something your carbine can't do that extra 2" are a big deal for my crap eyes, to the point where i only have middys and rifles now So The dwell time on the m16 is exactly the same as a 16" carbine? The mid length gas system creates less wear and tear on parts, and if we compare a middy to a carbine (keeping everything else equal, only fair), the middy will shoot softer By your logic, a rifle length gas system is completely unreliable Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
can a 16" carbine properly mount a bayonet? Have an extra 2" of sight radius? Have the proper dwell time? I (and lots of other people) just dont like carbines Let the market speak bayonet? 1918? 2" sight radius as if you can notice the difference :D dwell time of middy is actually shorter than carbine, see my post above yours Bayonets come in handy for hog hunting, and its something your carbine can't do that extra 2" are a big deal for my crap eyes, to the point where i only have middys and rifles now So The dwell time on the m16 is exactly the same as a 16" carbine? The mid length gas system creates less wear and tear on parts, and if we compare a middy to a carbine (keeping everything else equal, only fair), the middy will shoot softer By your logic, a rifle length gas system is completely unreliable yes rifle length gas needs longer than 16" barrel to be reliable, it's not my logic, it's scientific data |
|
Quoted:
yes rifle length gas needs longer than 16" barrel to be reliable, it's not my logic, it's scientific data Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
can a 16" carbine properly mount a bayonet? Have an extra 2" of sight radius? Have the proper dwell time? I (and lots of other people) just dont like carbines Let the market speak bayonet? 1918? 2" sight radius as if you can notice the difference :D dwell time of middy is actually shorter than carbine, see my post above yours Bayonets come in handy for hog hunting, and its something your carbine can't do that extra 2" are a big deal for my crap eyes, to the point where i only have middys and rifles now So The dwell time on the m16 is exactly the same as a 16" carbine? The mid length gas system creates less wear and tear on parts, and if we compare a middy to a carbine (keeping everything else equal, only fair), the middy will shoot softer By your logic, a rifle length gas system is completely unreliable yes rifle length gas needs longer than 16" barrel to be reliable, it's not my logic, it's scientific data I may not know everything, but I have 3 dissy uppers with rifle length gas systems that haven't had problems. My personal preference when it comes between carbine and mid is mid. I'll take any extra length (that's what she said?) for sight radius. |
|
Quoted:
same can be asked in reverse I just don't like middy Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
most of uppers i see on PSA now are mid length, why? not like they are flying off shelves
make some carbines please I'd love to get a cheap PTAC (or PSA if cheap) carbine upper with lightweight barrel Is there anything a 16" carbine upper can do that a 16" middy can't? same can be asked in reverse I just don't like middy Yes? Can you a shit ton more handguard length and reduced recoil. |
|
Quoted:
Perceived recoil is a different animal than a graph. Set up a test with 2 identically configured rifles, one middy, one carbine. Do some testing with varying Buffers and springs, then get back to me. I've looked around for such a test and have yet to see one. Even if there is a slight amount of difference, it is often imperceptible to a lot of people. I honestly cannot tell a difference between them. I have no dog in this race tbh, I own several of both and will continue to buy both. I just find the whole "middy shoots softer" thing to be vastly overhyped and that is MY experience with the platform. I guess if people are super sensitive to the light 5.56 recoil they should probably eat more Wheaties or something. I'm done with this pointless disagreement... Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How dare I speak out against the middy myth... lol Whatever floats your boat pal, you & yours are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to my own. The day someone can show me an extensive and conclusive test to confirm your OPINION, I will eat some crow. Since nobody has done so by now, I'm willing to wager it won't/can't happen. Gotta love the interwebz... lol Yep, no tests at all...I mean...minus the shit ton that come up if you google it that show that I'm correct. Here's one of the thousand you can find. You apparently don't know much about guns... http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/223plot.gif But yeah, other than all those, no tests.
Perceived recoil is a different animal than a graph. Set up a test with 2 identically configured rifles, one middy, one carbine. Do some testing with varying Buffers and springs, then get back to me. I've looked around for such a test and have yet to see one. Even if there is a slight amount of difference, it is often imperceptible to a lot of people. I honestly cannot tell a difference between them. I have no dog in this race tbh, I own several of both and will continue to buy both. I just find the whole "middy shoots softer" thing to be vastly overhyped and that is MY experience with the platform. I guess if people are super sensitive to the light 5.56 recoil they should probably eat more Wheaties or something. I'm done with this pointless disagreement... Um yeah, I've done that test. Two PSA rifles one carbine one middy. Both 16" in length, but running H2 buffers. Definitely less felt recoil with the middy. |
|
Quoted:
Um yeah, I've done that test. Two PSA rifles one carbine one middy. Both 16" in length, but running H2 buffers. Definitely less felt recoil with the middy. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How dare I speak out against the middy myth... lol Whatever floats your boat pal, you & yours are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to my own. The day someone can show me an extensive and conclusive test to confirm your OPINION, I will eat some crow. Since nobody has done so by now, I'm willing to wager it won't/can't happen. Gotta love the interwebz... lol Yep, no tests at all...I mean...minus the shit ton that come up if you google it that show that I'm correct. Here's one of the thousand you can find. You apparently don't know much about guns... http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/223plot.gif But yeah, other than all those, no tests.
Perceived recoil is a different animal than a graph. Set up a test with 2 identically configured rifles, one middy, one carbine. Do some testing with varying Buffers and springs, then get back to me. I've looked around for such a test and have yet to see one. Even if there is a slight amount of difference, it is often imperceptible to a lot of people. I honestly cannot tell a difference between them. I have no dog in this race tbh, I own several of both and will continue to buy both. I just find the whole "middy shoots softer" thing to be vastly overhyped and that is MY experience with the platform. I guess if people are super sensitive to the light 5.56 recoil they should probably eat more Wheaties or something. I'm done with this pointless disagreement... Um yeah, I've done that test. Two PSA rifles one carbine one middy. Both 16" in length, but running H2 buffers. Definitely less felt recoil with the middy. maybe you can learn the most important factor which you missed, that is gas port size |
|
Quoted:
maybe you can learn the most important factor which you missed, that is gas port size Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How dare I speak out against the middy myth... lol Whatever floats your boat pal, you & yours are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to my own. The day someone can show me an extensive and conclusive test to confirm your OPINION, I will eat some crow. Since nobody has done so by now, I'm willing to wager it won't/can't happen. Gotta love the interwebz... lol Yep, no tests at all...I mean...minus the shit ton that come up if you google it that show that I'm correct. Here's one of the thousand you can find. You apparently don't know much about guns... http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/223plot.gif But yeah, other than all those, no tests.
Perceived recoil is a different animal than a graph. Set up a test with 2 identically configured rifles, one middy, one carbine. Do some testing with varying Buffers and springs, then get back to me. I've looked around for such a test and have yet to see one. Even if there is a slight amount of difference, it is often imperceptible to a lot of people. I honestly cannot tell a difference between them. I have no dog in this race tbh, I own several of both and will continue to buy both. I just find the whole "middy shoots softer" thing to be vastly overhyped and that is MY experience with the platform. I guess if people are super sensitive to the light 5.56 recoil they should probably eat more Wheaties or something. I'm done with this pointless disagreement... Um yeah, I've done that test. Two PSA rifles one carbine one middy. Both 16" in length, but running H2 buffers. Definitely less felt recoil with the middy. maybe you can learn the most important factor which you missed, that is gas port size Guess what, the gas port sizes are the same on middy and carbines from PSA. |
|
Quoted:
Guess what, the gas port sizes are the same on middy and carbines from PSA. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yep, no tests at all...I mean...minus the shit ton that come up if you google it that show that I'm correct. Here's one of the thousand you can find. You apparently don't know much about guns... http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/223plot.gif But yeah, other than all those, no tests.
Perceived recoil is a different animal than a graph. Set up a test with 2 identically configured rifles, one middy, one carbine. Do some testing with varying Buffers and springs, then get back to me. I've looked around for such a test and have yet to see one. Even if there is a slight amount of difference, it is often imperceptible to a lot of people. I honestly cannot tell a difference between them. I have no dog in this race tbh, I own several of both and will continue to buy both. I just find the whole "middy shoots softer" thing to be vastly overhyped and that is MY experience with the platform. I guess if people are super sensitive to the light 5.56 recoil they should probably eat more Wheaties or something. I'm done with this pointless disagreement... Um yeah, I've done that test. Two PSA rifles one carbine one middy. Both 16" in length, but running H2 buffers. Definitely less felt recoil with the middy. maybe you can learn the most important factor which you missed, that is gas port size Guess what, the gas port sizes are the same on middy and carbines from PSA. guess what, it can be changed or adjusted, gas port size and over/under gas is the root reason of shooting soft or not, not the gas length of carbine or mid |
|
I could care less if it's softer shooting. I prefer the longer handguard and longer sight radius, as do MANY people (which is why middies are QUICKLY gaining popularity).
Nothing wrong with carbine, but more and more people are now leaning towards middy for these exact reasons. |
|
Quoted:
I could care less if it's softer shooting. I prefer the longer handguard and longer sight radius, as do MANY people (which is why middies are QUICKLY gaining popularity). Nothing wrong with carbine, but more and more people are now leaning towards middy for these exact reasons. That is a benefit I agree, but I don't care that much either. I hold the "rifle" close to receiver anyway. I do have a middy. I have rifle and carbine also, I honestly can't tell enough difference on recoil shooting rifle vs. carbine to be worth mention, sure not middy. |
|
Quoted:
to those who love mid length, even with free shipping the array of middies just can't sell, help PSA, buy them all please What are you smoking exactly? There are more non-middy uppers for sale than not. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies.html |
|
Quoted:
What are you smoking exactly? There are more non-middy uppers for sale than not. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies.html Quoted:
Quoted:
to those who love mid length, even with free shipping the array of middies just can't sell, help PSA, buy them all please What are you smoking exactly? There are more non-middy uppers for sale than not. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies.html Also what Makes him think that middys are not selling? |