Posted: 10/23/2009 9:27:00 AM EDT
I for one would love to see this company depose such overpriced, overblown "industry standards" like Leopold, Swarovski, et al. and the best way to do that is to make your voice heard. Opticsplanet.com (the largest online distributor of optics and the like) is having their annual vote for their 2009 Brilliance Awards, and Vortex's products made it into the voting pool for two categories (they should have been in many more...). Register your e-mail and vote for Vortex! You could also win some nice prizes 
http://www.opticsplanet.com/awards/2009/?utm_source=marketing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=votenow *Disclaimer* I do NOT work for Vortex optics...I'm just a happy customer who likes to see quality, American owned businesses do do well! |
Great ,Thanks.
I used to think that too...I owned a pair of Swarovski EL 10x42, the mecca of meccas in the binocular industry. And before that, I owned a pair of Zeiss. I used to be all about the ridiculously expensive optics. I've also had alot of experience with optics, considering that I've been an avid birdwatcher since middle school (a fact I am NOT proud of––I'm fully aware of the total geek status such a hobby imparts  ). I think birders probably know optics better than most, since sometimes you can only distinguish one species of bird from another based on a slightly different shade of a particular color, or maybe just a patch of color that may consist of only 2 or 3 different feathers. Bottom line, birders need the best optics out there to really get the job done.
To make a long story short, the day I looked through a pair of the Vortex Furies I sold my Swaros. The optics, quite frankly, were near indistinguishable from each other, and the Vortex's had a much better warranty. So when a ~350$ pair of binoculars is competing with a 1750+ dollar pair (I got mine when the EL's were JUST (lol) 1450$), there's a big, 1400$ problem . Now who knows, the Swaros might have a 1 or 2% edge on optical clarity, but keep in mind that the human eye can generally only detect differences of at least 3% or more. Assuming that the Swaro's do have that 1 or 2% edge (and they may not), why pay 1400$ for a difference you can't even detect?? You can even compare the specs online, and Vortex is the clear winner; the Fury has a closer focus, a slightly broader FOV, and is even close to 2 oz. lighter! Sure, the Swaro's have "Swarobright"...well, the Vortex's have their XR lense coatings. And yet, the Swaros cost 4x more? That's why I'm fed up with companies like Swarovski. All that to say I wouldn't even want to compare the EL's to Vortex's top of the line binos like the Razors (still of 1/2 the cost of the EL's)...that would just be embarassing. Also, any company that is selling what used to be a 1250$ pair of binos (that's what the EL's used to go for back in the day) for 1750$ when their technology is old and outdated is a pretty crappy company in my opinion. That's cool if you realize that your product has a stranglehold on the high-end optics market and you want to make a little extra $, but 500 dollars in 6 or 7 years? Ridiculous. Ok, done ranting (phew!). |
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Your experiences comparing Vortex and Swarovski optics do not match mine. Like I said, Vortex is good for the price point, but optics made in China, Taiwan and the Philippines can't compete with ones made in Germany - and the two really shouldn't be compared because of cost. I used to sell a lot of optics, and many folks would remark that a $200 scope looked just as good as a $1500 scope in the store. Yes, in good light, a good $200 scope looks pretty good. In low light, the differences become much more obvious. Anyway, I don't want to make it seem like I am crapping on Vortex in their own forum, so best of luck to them in this poll.
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Your experiences comparing Vortex and Swarovski optics do not match mine. Like I said, Vortex is good for the price point, but optics made in China, Taiwan and the Philippines can't compete with ones made in Germany - and the two really shouldn't be compared because of cost. I used to sell a lot of optics, and many folks would remark that a $200 scope looked just as good as a $1500 scope in the store. Yes, in good light, a good $200 scope looks pretty good. In low light, the differences become much more obvious. Anyway, I don't want to make it seem like I am crapping on Vortex in their own forum, so best of luck to them in this poll. I see you left out Japan. Our high end stuff is made in Japan and I think it compares very well with anything coming out of Europe. For example our Razor series of products, which are all extremely close to or as good as anything coming out of Europe and still less money. I certainly agree with you about looking through glass in good light vs. bad light, it does make a difference. I wouldn't ever tell anyone a $200 scope was as good as a $1500 scope, but I think when you compare to similar priced product it's very good stuff. -Sam |
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Quoted: Quoted: Your experiences comparing Vortex and Swarovski optics do not match mine. Like I said, Vortex is good for the price point, but optics made in China, Taiwan and the Philippines can't compete with ones made in Germany - and the two really shouldn't be compared because of cost. I used to sell a lot of optics, and many folks would remark that a $200 scope looked just as good as a $1500 scope in the store. Yes, in good light, a good $200 scope looks pretty good. In low light, the differences become much more obvious. Anyway, I don't want to make it seem like I am crapping on Vortex in their own forum, so best of luck to them in this poll. I see you left out Japan. Our high end stuff is made in Japan and I think it compares very well with anything coming out of Europe. For example our Razor series of products, which are all extremely close to or as good as anything coming out of Europe and still less money. I certainly agree with you about looking through glass in good light and I wouldn't ever tell anyone a $200 scope was as good as a $1500 scope, but I think when you compare to similar priced product it's very good stuff. -Sam I wasn't aware that you had a Japanese factory. Just going off the the Vortex stuff I've owned or used. You learn something new every day. edit: But at $750 (retail sale price), I'd expect it to compete, at least, with stuff in the $1000 and up range. $350 binos? Probably not.
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Your experiences comparing Vortex and Swarovski optics do not match mine. Like I said, Vortex is good for the price point, but optics made in China, Taiwan and the Philippines can't compete with ones made in Germany - and the two really shouldn't be compared because of cost. I used to sell a lot of optics, and many folks would remark that a $200 scope looked just as good as a $1500 scope in the store. Yes, in good light, a good $200 scope looks pretty good. In low light, the differences become much more obvious. Anyway, I don't want to make it seem like I am crapping on Vortex in their own forum, so best of luck to them in this poll. I see you left out Japan. Our high end stuff is made in Japan and I think it compares very well with anything coming out of Europe. For example our Razor series of products, which are all extremely close to or as good as anything coming out of Europe and still less money. I certainly agree with you about looking through glass in good light and I wouldn't ever tell anyone a $200 scope was as good as a $1500 scope, but I think when you compare to similar priced product it's very good stuff. -Sam I wasn't aware that you had a Japanese factory. Just going off the the Vortex stuff I've owned or used. You learn something new every day. Yes, we work with quite a few factories in Japan actually. All of our Razor series (binoculars, spotting scope, and rifle scopes) are made in Japan. Our Viper and Kaibab binoculars are made in Japan as well. Not sure if you saw, but here is our new Razor HD 5-20x50 FFP tactical riflescope: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=277&t=179821 It got reviewed by Frank over at Siper's Hide, in fact he tried to blow it up with tannerite twice and it held zero and still tracks perfect. He gave it really high marks. -Sam |
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Actually, most birding is done either early morning (=dark) or at dusk (=dark). While I never did compare the EL's directly to the Furies during the darker hours of the day, I still can't discern any noticeable differences in light transmission through my Vortex's.
I do have a little bit of a problem though with accepting general status quo's as absolute status quo's, i.e., if you pay more money for something it will ALWAYS be better than something of the same kind that costs less money. Accepting generalities like these as absolutes turns people into, well, suckers. So to me, price is irrelevant. If a particular product is superior to another, it cannot be logically argued that it isn't simply based on how much it costs. Price is not really a valid premise on which to determine the quality of a product. Higher prices can correlate with higher quality, but the higher price does not *cause* the higher quality. I can sell my turd for 50000000 dollars and call it an ACOG, but it's not really a very quality ACOG now is it? Bottom line: the 350$ Vortex's have a closer focus (4.9 feet vs. ~7 feet), are significantly lighter, have a slightly broader FOV, and have a better warranty. The optics, so far as I can tell, are indistinguishable from the Swaros. As for where they're made, once again, this isn't really a valid premise on which to determine quality. My band's $10,000 Bose PA system was made in China too, and it rocks the face off of any American made PA system built to similar specs. So while it is a fact that the Vortex's beat the Swaros in some of the most important categories to consider, it is NOT a fact that *all* products made in China are inferior to products made in European contries. Now you can infer from this whatever you like, but I like to let the facts speak for themselves, and I generally try to ignore the non-facts. I've gotten me some really good deals this way
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VortexSam, that's an impressive optic, and seems to be well worth the price. Quoted: Actually, most birding is done either early morning (=dark) or at dusk (=dark). While I never did compare the EL's directly to the Furies during the darker hours of the day, I still can't discern any noticeable differences in light transmission through my Vortex's. I do have a little bit of a problem though with accepting general status quo's as absolute status quo's, i.e., if you pay more money for something it will ALWAYS be better than something of the same kind that costs less money. Accepting generalities like these as absolutes turns people into, well, suckers. So to me, price is irrelevant. If a particular product is superior to another, it cannot be logically argued that it isn't simply based on how much it costs. Price is not really a valid premise on which to determine the quality of a product. Higher prices can correlate with higher quality, but the higher price does not *cause* the higher quality. I can sell my turd for 50000000 dollars and call it an ACOG, but it's not really a very quality ACOG now is it? Bottom line: the 350$ Vortex's have a closer focus (4.9 feet vs. ~7 feet), are significantly lighter, have a slightly broader FOV, and have a better warranty. The optics, so far as I can tell, are indistinguishable from the Swaros. As for where they're made, once again, this isn't really a valid premise on which to determine quality. My band's $10,000 Bose PA system was made in China too, and it rocks the face off of any American made PA system built to similar specs. So while it is a fact that the Vortex's beat the Swaros in some of the most important categories to consider, it is NOT a fact that *all* products made in China are inferior to products made in European contries. Now you can infer from this whatever you like, but I like to let the facts speak for themselves, and I generally try to ignore the non-facts. I've gotten me some really good deals this way In my experience, with optics and firearms, if you pay more, you'll get a good quality item. That's not to say that you won't overpay for it - just that you have a lesser chance of getting a turd, as you say. When I buy cheap(er) stuff, I sometimes get a diamond in the rough, but the hassle of dealing with poor quality or malfunctioning equipment isn't worth the (often minor) cost savings to me. I'm all about saving money, that's why I bought a $1600 Swarovski spotting scope on clearance for $800. And frankly, while you might not be willing to pay double for an extra few percentage points worth of performance, others might. I am simply not as willing as I once was to shell out my hard earned cash for something that might not do what I want it to do when I could shell out a bit more and know for sure that the product will meet my needs. I buy and use a lot of Surefire flashlights. Some might think I'm a sucker for that, but when my (highly recommended on flashlight forums) Chinese flashlight conked out on me when I was using to see at night after my motorcycle headlight conked out on me, you can bet that when I got home, I tossed it aside and stuck a Surefire in my pocket. As I am fond of saying, I get no warm and fuzzy from any brand logo, but I do get cold shivers from a few. |
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Right, fair enough. As for the flashlights, I'm with you there. They are kind of a niche item though (compared to binoculars), so there really aren't too many decent manufacturers to choose from.
And shoot, if you can find a Swarovski spotting scope for that price, more power to ya. That's a pretty unbeatable deal! On a side note, I'm going to a gun show tomorrow (or today?), and I might just be picking up a Ruger SR 556 to replace my current AR...of course that all depends on 1) how quickly I can sell my existing AR at the gun show and 2) how much I can get for said AR Either way, I will be picking up a Saiga sporter 7.62x39 to be promptly converted into its proper AK form when I get home (yes, I already have all the parts). Suffice it to say, I'll have a hard time going to sleep tonight!!!
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Converting Saigas is a fun process, my 308 is much better after the conversion. Best of luck on the AR, I'd actually go with something cheaper  like a Colt 6940/6920 or Daniel Defense/BCM/Spikes rifle.I was going to buy a set of binos sometime soon, after this thread, I'll look hard at the Vortex offering for $750.
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Yeah, I don't know...I ended up getting a sweet gig paying 600$ at the beginning of Novermber that I didn't know I was going to have (and therefore 600$ that I didn't really need), so I figure if I can get a good 1000 for my AR, I'll be good to go. Think about this: the SR556 comes with a sweet Yankee Hill (?) quad rail + those friggin expensive BUIS's from the same company. Not to mention it's a gas-piston rifle, and considering that I was an AK fanboy before I got into AR's, gas-pistons are magical devices to me (mostly because I'm used to not cleaning my rifle and still having it shoot ). I mean, the rails and the BUIS retail for close to 450$ alltogether, so you're paying about 1100 for the rifle itself. Some people say they're seeing them for around 1450, which seems like a pretty good deal to me. I don't know, like I said it may or may not happen, we'll see.
And yeah, I love the Saigas. I sold one of my converts a few months ago when times were rough, but times are a little better now so I'm going to do another one. I think it's a beautiful thing to be able to hold in your hands a true Russian AK-47 that you, um, kind of built with your own hands. |
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Yeah, they go for around $1450-1600, which is why I recommended the Colt 6940, because it has a monolithic, 4 rail upper and folding BUIS, and a fair price for it at the moment is $1400. It's also significantly lighter than the SR556. |
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Thanks for the votes guys.
I actually find it a bit surprising that our Razor spotting scope isn't up there. Maybe it's because we just haven't sent enough of them out yet, but at $1600 it is no joke as good as the Kowa 88, which is regarded as the top spotting scope on the market right now. Anyway, thanks for the votes again. I think that we really do have very good products for the money. We certainly try and pack as much performance as we can in each product, and I appreciate the nice comments/mini-review on the Fury's Bizzarolibe!
-Sam |