Posted: 12/29/2011 2:13:07 AM EDT
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I've been watching Magpul's new Precision rifle video and there's a lot of information in there that has altered or even reversed a lot of what I have previously learned.
For one was the importance of a rear bag. I've never really used one before because I didn't feel like hauling one around, I just used my fist under the stock. Fortunately for me my favorite dealer of all things gun just happens to carry a nice looking rear bag that I'll be ordering shortly! The other thing I would really like to pick up is a scope level. I've always thought that I would just be able to eyeball it and on a flat range that's been working just fine, but now in my quest to find places to shoot farther than 600 yards, uneven terrain becomes more of a reality. After seeing even very experienced shooters have problems with leveling I figure I had better pick myself up a level. After some searching I've stumbled upon one that I like, again produced by accuracy 1st. While most levels have plastic bubble vials, the accuracy 1st unit has a quality bent glass vial with a solid ball–– the same kind of unit they use in airplane slip indicators. The price is also good compared to the competition, especially considering the better quality of the main element! So then a light bulb went on... Why doesn't LT start carrying the accuracy 1st level on their webstore? Being on such a popular site will probably move a lot more units. Heck maybe LT could even take over production of the levels for them. Another idea is upper rings for the OBR mount and others with a level built in.... Oh and if you could make a scope cap that doesn't suck that would be great, too 
I can't wait to take my beloved OBR and start really pushing myself with it using the stuff I learned from these videos! |
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not sure upper rings would work for a level.
I got my Vortex level in yesterday (along with rear bag), and spent a good 45 minutes trying to level the gun with a level on the receivers top rail, then level the reticle using a level line on the wall, then moving the Vortex ring around until it was perfectly level. Once I had everything leveled the way I like, I slowly and carefully tightened everything down. I do like the idea of LaRue carrying Accuracy1st's products....the level being one, but the whiz wheel is what I would be more interested in personally.That way I could order my scope mount, possibly scope, a level, and a whiz wheel when setting up a new rifle. ETA.....I would mind a QD mount that could hold an iphone or ipod touch in a "loose" mount to allow some wiggle room for recoil. I currently have the Bulletflight app on my iphone, and since I have verizon, there shouldnt be any sim card issues. Another thought was a small tripod the iphone could rest against on the ground where the shooter doesnt have to raise from the rifle to enter information like they do with their PDA's on the Magpul Precision videos. |
I hear what you're saying about ring levels. But as long as the reticle is square with the mound then you'd be good to go. Setting this up is fast and easy, all you need is a set of feeler gauges, or a good metal ruler (LaRuler! ). Then you can square the bottom of the turret to the mount no problem.
I'm pretty sure LaRue carries the whiz wheel, in fact I think that's the first place I ever saw it. Maybe they don't carry them anymore? |
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Quoted: not sure upper rings would work for a level. I got my Vortex level in yesterday (along with rear bag), and spent a good 45 minutes trying to level the gun with a level on the receivers top rail, then level the reticle using a level line on the wall, then moving the Vortex ring around until it was perfectly level. Once I had everything leveled the way I like, I slowly and carefully tightened everything down. I do like the idea of LaRue carrying Accuracy1st's products....the level being one, but the whiz wheel is what I would be more interested in personally.That way I could order my scope mount, possibly scope, a level, and a whiz wheel when setting up a new rifle. ETA.....I would mind a QD mount that could hold an iphone or ipod touch in a "loose" mount to allow some wiggle room for recoil. I currently have the Bulletflight app on my iphone, and since I have verizon, there shouldnt be any sim card issues. Another thought was a small tripod the iphone could rest against on the ground where the shooter doesnt have to raise from the rifle to enter information like they do with their PDA's on the Magpul Precision videos.  |
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not sure upper rings would work for a level. I got my Vortex level in yesterday (along with rear bag), and spent a good 45 minutes trying to level the gun with a level on the receivers top rail, then level the reticle using a level line on the wall, then moving the Vortex ring around until it was perfectly level. Once I had everything leveled the way I like, I slowly and carefully tightened everything down. I do like the idea of LaRue carrying Accuracy1st's products....the level being one, but the whiz wheel is what I would be more interested in personally.That way I could order my scope mount, possibly scope, a level, and a whiz wheel when setting up a new rifle. ETA.....I would mind a QD mount that could hold an iphone or ipod touch in a "loose" mount to allow some wiggle room for recoil. I currently have the Bulletflight app on my iphone, and since I have verizon, there shouldnt be any sim card issues. Another thought was a small tripod the iphone could rest against on the ground where the shooter doesnt have to raise from the rifle to enter information like they do with their PDA's on the Magpul Precision videos. http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/gorillapod_go-go.jpg WANT! That would work perfect for me, just turn the iPhone 90 degrees. |
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This might sound stupid but couldn't you take an index clip and mill in a little slot for a bubble level? I got maybe a half dozen of those little bubble level tubes sitting in one of my shop drawers.
Might be talking out my ass since I know squat about long distance precision shooting. |
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Quoted:
I do like the idea of LaRue carrying Accuracy1st's products....the level being one, but the whiz wheel is what I would be more interested in personally.That way I could order my scope mount, possibly scope, a level, and a whiz wheel when setting up a new rifle. quote] A WhizWheel came with my LT-104 and HDMR back in the fall. With that, the DVD, the LaRuler, my OBR and the Horus program in my wrist watch - now its on to the range time! 
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I don't even want to think about the Horus program and wrist watch right now. Have a couple gongs we've made and heading to one of our fields tomorrow to see how I do at 5-800yards. Yesterday was pushed to 435 without a miss, but have a feeling past that, it's a whole other game! Currently using bullet flight app on my iPhone.
I do like the idea of LaRue carrying Accuracy1st's products....the level being one, but the whiz wheel is what I would be more interested in personally.That way I could order my scope mount, possibly scope, a level, and a whiz wheel when setting up a new rifle. quote] A WhizWheel came with my LT-104 and HDMR back in the fall. With that, the DVD, the LaRuler, my OBR and the Horus program in my wrist watch - now its on to the range time!
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A big AttaBoy for getin' out there and doing it. It helps living out in the sticks with about 2500 acres of land in the family. May have to lay prone on tilled ground, but I'll make that sacrifice! 
Have a fellow arfcommer who was shooting with me yesterday and is shooting with me tomorrow...helps to have a spotter and someone to verify you story.
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I would buy a LT Level, but please keep it close to $50 
Also THIS is an awesome rear bag. I was looking around for a bubble level earlier today and honestly the Vortex is the only reasonably price one for what it is, and I bet its quality is just as good. LINK The glass level vials on the Accuracy first unit alone cost about $20, but they are more accurate. That's a good price for the vortex unit but some of the others that use the plastic levers have ridiculously high prices. |
| Actually I think LaRue could design a better level. My issue with most of the levels on the market is that if a gun is used in harsh conditions I want the level to survive. I would rather see the level curved glass with a metal ball than a bubble style but laying directly below the scope or directly above so that it does not stick out to one side or another and snag on stuff. or a design with rounded edges to prevent snagging. It could be the Dillo's ass level (Front Toward Enemy). . |
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I am going to order a Bubble Level/Cosine Indicator from these guys (Waiting till I get back from SHOT )
FlatLine Ops |
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I am going to order a Bubble Level/Cosine Indicator from these guys (Waiting till I get back from SHOT )
FlatLine Ops Looked at that one and really wanted it.....but was in enough hot water with the wife already. Really liked how it flipped out to the side to increase visibility. |
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I would buy a LT Level, but please keep it close to $50
Also THIS is an awesome rear bag. I was looking around for a bubble level earlier today and honestly the Vortex is the only reasonably price one for what it is, and I bet its quality is just as good. LINK here is the vortex for $35 and free shipping |
thought I would toss some pics on here of the Vortex level. It really DOESNT stick out much at all, so I wouldnt be overly concerned about that.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us 
Uploaded with ImageShack.us The scope is forward in the OBR mount because my CMMG rifle does not have that awesome 20MOA top rail like a LaRue OBR. For now it seems to be doing fine (sub MOA to near half MOA when I do my part)....but I do still lust for an 18" or 20" 762 OBR!!! |
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thought I would toss some pics on here of the Vortex level. It really DOESNT stick out much at all, so I wouldnt be overly concerned about that. <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/img0732ma.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/3187/img0732ma.jpg</a> Uploaded with ImageShack.us <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/img0730ok.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1336/img0730ok.jpg</a> Uploaded with ImageShack.us The scope is forward in the OBR mount because my CMMG rifle does not have that awesome 20MOA top rail like a LaRue OBR. For now it seems to be doing fine (sub MOA to near half MOA when I do my part)....but I do still lust for an 18" or 20" 762 OBR!!! Thanks for sharing the pics. |
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thought I would toss some pics on here of the Vortex level. It really DOESNT stick out much at all, so I wouldnt be overly concerned about that. <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/img0732ma.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/3187/img0732ma.jpg</a> Uploaded with ImageShack.us <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/img0730ok.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1336/img0730ok.jpg</a> Uploaded with ImageShack.us The scope is forward in the OBR mount because my CMMG rifle does not have that awesome 20MOA top rail like a LaRue OBR. For now it seems to be doing fine (sub MOA to near half MOA when I do my part)....but I do still lust for an 18" or 20" 762 OBR!!! I'm curious as to why the level/bubble is mounted forward of the scope mount - would it be more visible/useful mounted farther back toward the shooter, or is it too distracting? |
| It blocked the view of the top turret and the paralax adjustment on the left, I wanted to be able to see the directions of adjustments and all that stuff. Played with it in different positions and found that I could use it in that position without lifting my head from the scope to make adjustments. |
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All of my Larue mounts seem to end up on the receivers well...perfectly level...so much that I use the base of my LT104's as my "level reference" when mounting a scope.
IE, I trust Larues stuff so much that I level my scopes to the mount, not the rifle itself. If larue made a level on a quick release platform, I'd be in for one or two. I trust their mounts enough to go on the rifle level, so why not just put one right on a QR platform? |
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Maybe they would offer replacement rings with a level built in? Basically you replace the rear ring only and it has the level built in either on top or on the side. And sell as an add-on like QD v VFZ? After watching Magpul AOTPR a time or six more....it seems that the RETICLE has to be level to the world, not necessarily the gun or mount....so if you mount the scope loosely in a ring setup like that, use a leveled line on the wall, level the reticle on the line while slowly tightening the rear ring when it shows level....all good. I'd be in for at least one. |
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Yep the scope and reticle have to be level with the world. The bullet leaves the barrel going straight but the second is leaves the barrel gravity will start to pull it straight down. The reticle and scope's adjustments must be lined up with gravity or "level" so that your drop adjustments are correct.
The only thing a scope mount must do is hold the scope and rifle inline with each other and stay in exactly the same position in reference to each other. |
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I'm finishing a design on a really low-cost slope indicator right now (I'm a mechanical engineer, run my own design firm). Let me know if you're interested, I'd be happy to send drawings your way. I will test one for you......FOR FREE!
If you actually make one I wouldn't mind buying one. |
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Quoted:
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thought I would toss some pics on here of the Vortex level. It really DOESNT stick out much at all, so I wouldnt be overly concerned about that. <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/img0732ma.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/3187/img0732ma.jpg</a> Uploaded with ImageShack.us <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/img0730ok.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1336/img0730ok.jpg</a> Uploaded with ImageShack.us The scope is forward in the OBR mount because my CMMG rifle does not have that awesome 20MOA top rail like a LaRue OBR. For now it seems to be doing fine (sub MOA to near half MOA when I do my part)....but I do still lust for an 18" or 20" 762 OBR!!! I'm curious as to why the level/bubble is mounted forward of the scope mount - would it be more visible/useful mounted farther back toward the shooter, or is it too distracting? Gets in the way of making scope adjustments as you hand tends to bump into it when placed between the shooter and knobs. |
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Thinking of picking up one of these... |
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Thats a VERY good deal. If the bubble level was more visible I would pick it up in a heartbeat. |
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http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae52/762RUM/DSC_0424.jpg http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae52/762RUM/DSC_0429.jpg http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae52/762RUM/DSC_0448.jpg I had these SLS printed Wow those are pretty slick IM headed your way.
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I haven't been too impressed with the quality vs. cost for many of the units out there.
However, I got my unit from accuracy 1st the other day and couldn't be happier. I have it tucked behind my parallax adjuster, the way it is designed it doesn't block a center line view of the parallax knob so you can still read where it is. The glass vial with bead is great, and it only takes the slightest rotation to get it to move. The good thing about scope tube mounted units vs fixed rail mount units is that you can calibrate them to the crosshair quickly and easily. I'd recommend it to anyone. If you are mounting a rail unit, I would recommend you put the level on first, and level the rifle, then with the rifle level use a plumb line to level the crosshairs. If you are mounting a unit that hangs off to one side, I would recommend adjusting it so it appears level while looking through the scope, that way there is no parallax induced discrepancies when you get behind the rifle and it looks off. For example, look through the scope as you normally would with your right eye and adjust the level, looking at it with your left eye. |
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Thats a VERY good deal. If the bubble level was more visible I would pick it up in a heartbeat. Honestly, I don't see that level as being any more accurate than just eyeballing it. A line in the middle of the bubble isn't a very good frame of reference, one of the bracketed types would be much better. The whole assembly looks like a chinese POS to me. I'm a cheapskate, but I can't stand cheap tools or cheap equipment, for those I'll save up and bite the bullet for quality. |