Posted: 9/5/2011 6:08:31 PM EDT
| This might be a crazy question, but how accurate are the CMMG .22 uppers compared to a Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22 with a bull barrel? I'm trying to figure out if I can consistently hit a 12" steel target at 300 yards...well, I'm trying to figure out which platform would be best, my skills are questionable. I know that it can be done as I can hit the plate consistently with my XDm 9mm at that distance and I've seen a buddy pull it off with his M&P 15-22. |
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This might be a crazy question, but how accurate are the CMMG .22 uppers compared to a Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22 with a bull barrel? I'm trying to figure out if I can consistently hit a 12" steel target at 300 yards...well, I'm trying to figure out which platform would be best, my skills are questionable. I know that it can be done as I can hit the plate consistently with my XDm 9mm at that distance and I've seen a buddy pull it off with his M&P 15-22. Let me get this right, you can consistently hit a 12" target firing a 9mm handgun, known for average accuracy, at 300 yards? That's what you want me to believe, and you have questionable skills? O.K., sure. You do understand that a 40gr standard velocity cartridge (1050fps) has a bullet drop of -228" (-65 MOA) to -250" at 300 yards? The 10 mph wind drift for that round, at 300 yards, is 25.4" to 30". Hell, most shooters can't tell you what 300 yards looks like, let alone shoot inside of 12" with a centerfire carbine. But you and your pal do it with an M&P 15-22 and a 9mm handgun, neither of which are match grade guns. Right? The bullet drop for a 9mm, 124gr, at 300 yards is essentially identical to the above mentioned rimfire cartridge, if that 9mm gun has a 24" barrel, which is what the test figures were made with. I'll put that into terms a novice shooter can understand: You'll need sights (preferably an optic over 10X) capable of MORE than 65MOA, and you'll need A LOT OF PRACTICE in hold, sight alignment, trigger control, breath control, and wind reading. The CMMG 16" steel rack grade barrel is capable of, in the hands of an experienced shooter firing off a stable rest, 1 MOA to 1.75 MOA on a windless day at 100 yards. That is DAMN GOOD for a rimfire AR! The barrel Spec (Dave S) mentions can better that. But hell, YOU do that with a handgun, so it'll be no big deal for you. Right? So my advice to you is go into this with a positive attitude by starting with the CMMG Evolution 16" and standard barrel. Buy a good but not overly priced ammo like CCI AR Tactical, and build on your skills. Then, if down the road you want to go further, upgrade the gun with a better barrel. One other thing, you might want to check your 300 yard range for true distance. Ted |
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Ted, you're welcome to come to Tulsa and shoot with the Fat Guy Shooting Team at USSA. We started at 100 yards and when we figured out that we could hit the steel easily from there we tried 300 yards. We figured out the hold over by walking the rounds into the target. Not very scientific, but a lot of fun. The handguns have f/o front sights and the 22s are sporting Eotechs.
ETA: I'm not concerned with whether you believe the story or not, I just wanted to know if my CMMG upper is capable of being consistent. One more thing, the wind was out the north (our right) and we were shooting Blazer 22 ammo and Speer Lawman & Red River 9mm. |
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Ted, you're welcome to come to Tulsa and shoot with the Fat Guy Shooting Team at USSA. We started at 100 yards and when we figured out that we could hit the steel easily from there we tried 300 yards. We figured out the hold over by walking the rounds into the target. Not very scientific, but a lot of fun. The handguns have f/o front sights and the 22s are sporting Eotechs. ETA: I'm not concerned with whether you believe the story or not, I just wanted to know if my CMMG upper is capable of being consistent. One more thing, the wind was out the north (our right) and we were shooting Blazer 22 ammo and Speer Lawman & Red River 9mm. Yup, I can well imagine you don't care what I think, just the same as I'm not concerned about driving over to Tulsa to shoot with you guys. But when you try to sell the "gosh, golly, gee wiz, ah shucks" story that your "skills are questionable," that is what I find to be in question, and not that you are hitting the target. So you've got a CMMG upper, and you've got all these great skills, why then didn't you do your own test and answer your own question instead of using the forum to showcase your abilities? Now you tell me, can it do the job? Ted |
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Boy, did you tell me! What I'm trying to determine is, do I want to dump a few hundred dollars into building another AR or do I want to dump a few hundred dollars into building a bull barrel 10/22 so that when I sit down to shoot I'm on target and not having to walk the rounds in. We use 22's for inexpensive trigger time in a lot of applications, why can't we use it at 300 yards? Ted, I don't know why, but for some unknown reason you want to get on here and accuse me of showcasing my abilities, of which I have admitted aren't that fantastic, I don't know, maybe you don't get out much maybe you think that only a Marine sniper with a 50 BMG could make such shots....anyway, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to walk rounds onto a target. Yes, my handgun has a match grade barrel, it's an XDm the "m" indicates match grade barrel and yes it has a precision trigger in it and yes my AR has a Geissele Super Semi Auto 2-stage trigger. I shoot these guns in USPSA (I'm a "D" shooter) and steel challenge matches. So Ted, if you have any knowledge or tips that you'd like to share, other than me being full of shit, I'd love to hear it, otherwise, feel free to STFU and go back to screwing your sister-cousin you Razorbacks are so fond of. |
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Boy, did you tell me! What I'm trying to determine is, do I want to dump a few hundred dollars into building another AR or do I want to dump a few hundred dollars into building a bull barrel 10/22 so that when I sit down to shoot I'm on target and not having to walk the rounds in. We use 22's for inexpensive trigger time in a lot of applications, why can't we use it at 300 yards? Ted, I don't know why, but for some unknown reason you want to get on here and accuse me of showcasing my abilities, of which I have admitted aren't that fantastic, I don't know, maybe you don't get out much maybe you think that only a Marine sniper with a 50 BMG could make such shots....anyway, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to walk rounds onto a target. Yes, my handgun has a match grade barrel, it's an XDm the "m" indicates match grade barrel and yes it has a precision trigger in it and yes my AR has a Geissele Super Semi Auto 2-stage trigger. I shoot these guns in USPSA (I'm a "D" shooter) and steel challenge matches. So Ted, if you have any knowledge or tips that you'd like to share, other than me being full of shit, I'd love to hear it, otherwise, feel free to STFU and go back to screwing your sister-cousin you Razorbacks are so fond of. Thank you for proving my point. |
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Boy, did you tell me! What I'm trying to determine is, do I want to dump a few hundred dollars into building another AR or do I want to dump a few hundred dollars into building a bull barrel 10/22 so that when I sit down to shoot I'm on target and not having to walk the rounds in. We use 22's for inexpensive trigger time in a lot of applications, why can't we use it at 300 yards? Ted, I don't know why, but for some unknown reason you want to get on here and accuse me of showcasing my abilities, of which I have admitted aren't that fantastic, I don't know, maybe you don't get out much maybe you think that only a Marine sniper with a 50 BMG could make such shots....anyway, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to walk rounds onto a target. Yes, my handgun has a match grade barrel, it's an XDm the "m" indicates match grade barrel and yes it has a precision trigger in it and yes my AR has a Geissele Super Semi Auto 2-stage trigger. I shoot these guns in USPSA (I'm a "D" shooter) and steel challenge matches. So Ted, if you have any knowledge or tips that you'd like to share, other than me being full of shit, I'd love to hear it, otherwise, feel free to STFU and go back to screwing your sister-cousin you Razorbacks are so fond of. Thank you for proving my point. Good gawd... |
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First off, if you really want an accurate and consistent barrel, then do what specops said, and upgrade the barrel. You get what you pay for basically.
Second, please post a video of you shooting a 12x12 steel at 300 with your XDm. Its one of those things that I would have to see to believe. And no, I'm not coming to Tulsa, as I'm way east of you, and unless you're paying for my travel, then I'm not going to waste my time. Are you sure you're not thinking of 100 yards, because then I could believe that. There's tons of people that couldn't hit a steel silhouette at 300m with an AR, and I'm supposed to believe that you can hit a smaller size with a 9mm? Well, I'm not calling you a liar, but please post proof. |
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If you want to shoot your absolute best, Buy the best. Clint makes the best barrels I have ever fired.
He makes match 10-22 barrels too. As to the 300 yard, 12" target. I'd Love to see video. I used to do that at 300 yards consistantly with my SMLE British Enfield. Can't imagine reaching out that far with any of my 22's, although I have one 100 yard target that's 5 shots under 1/2 inch.. 8 to 12" drop at that distance. I suspect that on an extremely calm day, with a ranging scope, good ammo and a very steady rest, it may be possible. But the slightest variation in wind or even thermals and you'd be screwed.. 
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First off, if you really want an accurate and consistent barrel, then do what specops said, and upgrade the barrel. You get what you pay for basically. Second, please post a video of you shooting a 12x12 steel at 300 with your XDm. Its one of those things that I would have to see to believe. And no, I'm not coming to Tulsa, as I'm way east of you, and unless you're paying for my travel, then I'm not going to waste my time. Are you sure you're not thinking of 100 yards, because then I could believe that. There's tons of people that couldn't hit a steel silhouette at 300m with an AR, and I'm supposed to believe that you can hit a smaller size with a 9mm? Well, I'm not calling you a liar, but please post proof. Telsonman, it isn't about the CMMG, the one that he asks if it is accurate enough to consistently hit the plate. He refers to "my CMMG..." So I ask again, if Okie has one, and is capable of all this "consistent" accuracy with two guns known for average close range accuracy, why doesn't he just go to the range and answer his own question? I pushed him for more information, and in return he resorted to what every bully knows how to do; profanity and sexual insults. Blow hards are not on my list of favorite people. I also gave him a factual answer to his "question," but as I stated, it isn't about the CMMG. This isn't so much about CMMG, that was just the foot in the door, what he really wants is to draw attention to himself and to his club, The Fat Guys. I would've had much more respect for him if he posted something on the order of "have you heard about my team?" Ted |
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There is one last comment regarding okie's question, and then I'm done. If he was more
forthcoming regarding the "how" he makes his shots then he would have his answer. When he states the need to consistently hit the plate, he left out some important details; how many shots to get dialed in, what position he uses, what rest, and how many hits in succession afterwards. When pressed, he tells us the method used, which is more successive approximation than accurate fire. Accurate fire requires the shooter to come to the line, range the target, apply his dope, fire the allowed number of sighters, and fire the remaining string with each shot consistently hitting as close to the X ring as possible. That is the definition of consistent accuracy. The CMMG rifle is about as good as an AR in rimfire is going to get, but to perform the type of shot okie is talking about, where each round is walked in until bingo, then do you really need all that quality and accuracy? You just need a gun that shoots well enough until you get it on target. I think okie knew that when he asked his question, and is why I think the question was a way to say; "look at what I and my team can do!" Good for you man, enjoy the sport. I'm done here. Ted |
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ah jeez Ted, you're reading way too much into the question and statements that I made.
I have shot distances very very little, started playing around with .22's and 9mm handguns one day at the range we hit the 300 yard gongs, it was a thrill and it got me to thinking now I want to build a gun that I can set up to be on target at those ranges when I walk up to the line not have to walk the rounds onto target. I'm not wanting to shoot 1/2" groups at 300 yards, I'm wanting to shoot minute of 12" gong. Yes, I have a CMMG upper, and yes, I found the sweet spot that allowed me to ring the bell, but with an Eotech and shooting from a bench using the magazine as the stablizer I'm not sure how much of my shooting was luck and how much was the gun. I apologize if I mislead you, as far as wanting to tout the Fat Guys, our primary goal is to run fund raisers for the families of sick kids, shooting is just a hobby and an excuse to get out of the house, our skill levels vary dramatically. I will tout this, in July we raised almost $15,000 for a kid with Leukemia. |
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ah jeez Ted, you're reading way too much into the question and statements that I made. I have shot distances very very little, started playing around with .22's and 9mm handguns one day at the range we hit the 300 yard gongs, it was a thrill and it got me to thinking now I want to build a gun that I can set up to be on target at those ranges when I walk up to the line not have to walk the rounds onto target. I'm not wanting to shoot 1/2" groups at 300 yards, I'm wanting to shoot minute of 12" gong. Yes, I have a CMMG upper, and yes, I found the sweet spot that allowed me to ring the bell, but with an Eotech and shooting from a bench using the magazine as the stablizer I'm not sure how much of my shooting was luck and how much was the gun. I apologize if I mislead you, as far as wanting to tout the Fat Guys, our primary goal is to run fund raisers for the families of sick kids, shooting is just a hobby and an excuse to get out of the house, our skill levels vary dramatically. I will tout this, in July we raised almost $15,000 for a kid with Leukemia. I WISH YOU AND THE TEAM THE BEST OF LUCK IN YOUR EFFORT! 
Ted |