[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Magpul Shocker! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/6/2012 4:10:50 AM EDT
Last week I called Magpul service because I had a window pmag with a defect.I asked the rep about warranty and was told that there was a warranty and they would send out a prepaid shipping envelope to send the mag to Magpul in.So far exellant service! Then I was asked for my address.When I told the service rep that I lived in Hawaii,the rep said that even though the warranty would cover the magazine;we can not ship a 30 round mag to Hawaii because of the state gun laws! I was kind of shocked because only pistol magazines are restricted to 10 rounds,and rifles are not restricted at all.All types of assault pistols are not allowed in this state,so AR type pistols are non existent in Hawaii.I was then transferred to a supervisor who tried to explain that Magpuls legal department would not let them honor the warranty by sending out the replacement for the defective magazine to the state of Hawaii.I explained that the magazines are legal and suggested that the supervisor take a look at the Hawaii gun law on the internet to see for himself!I mentioned that I had purchased lots of magpul 30 round mags from several venders ;such as Midway.He then told me that Magpul doesn't violate state gun laws even if company's like Midway do! I was told that the warranty was effectively void because of my state of residence! I am a huge Magpul fan and have a ton of pmags and all sorts of AR type accessories on my AR 10 and 2 Ar 15's including full Moe furniture on my new Ar carbine! I will be adding BAD levers soon.
The Big shock to me is A major manufacturer of magazines (Magpul) would not be professional enough to understand each states gun laws that would effect their products!!!! To add insult to injury; the supervisor then tried to sell me on the fact that Magpuls legal team had concluded that ;The state of Hawaii has lax enforcement on the gun laws relating to Ar magazines even though they were illegal! It doesn't take a legal team to see that 30 round magazines are legal in Hawaii and it would seem to be incumbent on any manufacturer of magazines,especially a market leader to know the laws of the states their products are sold in! JB |
Thats BS! Even if they are concerned about it why not just send the mag dissassembled as a "repair kit" or just send you only the part that is defective? Hell, at least offer to refund your money so you can buy a replacement from one of the "blackmarket" distributors like MidwayUSA There is a way around everything.
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Quoted:
Last week I called Magpul service because I had a window pmag with a defect.I asked the rep about warranty and was told that there was a warranty and they would send out a prepaid shipping envelope to send the mag to Magpul in.So far exellant service! Then I was asked for my address.When I told the service rep that I lived in Hawaii,the rep said that even though the warranty would cover the magazine;we can not ship a 30 round mag to Hawaii because of the state gun laws! I was kind of shocked because only pistol magazines are restricted to 10 rounds,and rifles are not restricted at all.All types of assault pistols are not allowed in this state,so AR type pistols are non existent in Hawaii.I was then transferred to a supervisor who tried to explain that Magpuls legal department would not let them honor the warranty by sending out the replacement for the defective magazine to the state of Hawaii.I explained that the magazines are legal and suggested that the supervisor take a look at the Hawaii gun law on the internet to see for himself!I mentioned that I had purchased lots of magpul 30 round mags from several venders ;such as Midway.He then told me that Magpul doesn't violate state gun laws even if company's like Midway do! I was told that the warranty was effectively void because of my state of residence! I am a huge Magpul fan and have a ton of pmags and all sorts of AR type accessories on my AR 10 and 2 Ar 15's including full Moe furniture on my new Ar carbine! I will be adding BAD levers soon.
The Big shock to me is A major manufacturer of magazines (Magpul) would not be professional enough to understand each states gun laws that would effect their products!!!! To add insult to injury; the supervisor then tried to sell me on the fact that Magpuls legal team had concluded that ;The state of Hawaii has lax enforcement on the gun laws relating to Ar magazines even though they were illegal! It doesn't take a legal team to see that 30 round magazines are legal in Hawaii and it would seem to be incumbent on any manufacturer of magazines,especially a market leader to know the laws of the states their products are sold in! JB BTW I am the one who spoke with the OP. Here's Hawaii's law: “The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited." Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-8(c). The clincher is the wording, "...or capable of use with a pistol ...". Our PMAGs are not designed as pistol mags, but they for sure are capable of being used in an AR15 pistol and therefore technically not legal in that state. Now the penalty may not be very high if actually used in a rifle ("Any person violating subsection (c) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor except when a detachable magazine prohibited under this section is possessed while inserted into a pistol in which case the person shall be guilty of a class C felony."), and apparently there is lax enforcement locally, but the law is still the law. Regarding the assertion that "AR type pistols are non existent in Hawaii", I don't believe this to be entirely true either: "After July 1, 1992, no person shall bring or cause to be brought into the State an assault pistol..." Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-4(e). So, while there may not be many AR pistols in the state that can accept our magazines, there is the distinct possibility that there are some that were grandfathered in before 1992... Believe me, we'd love to be able to sell our mags to every state in the Union. But as a responsible business, and as law abiding folks, we choose to follow these state laws regardless of the needs or opinions of any dealer or consumer. Also to clarify, we do not have a written warranty on any of our products. However, we are consistently recognized for our customer loyalty and we work hard to make sure that each purchase results in a customer for life. At anytime, if you ever experience an issue with a Magpul product, please contact us directly and we’ll do our best to help you. In this case though, our hands are tied... |
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Quoted:
Thats BS! Even if they are concerned about it why not just send the mag dissassembled as a "repair kit" or just send you only the part that is defective? Hell, at least offer to refund your money so you can buy a replacement from one of the "blackmarket" distributors like MidwayUSA There is a way around everything.The whole 'repair kit' thing doesn't work in Hawaii. It also does not work in California, but that is another discussion... Since the magazine was not purchased from us we cannot do a refund. I would be willing to credit the OP the value of the mag for other products, but when discussing these issues over the phone he really didn't want to agree with anything I had to say... |
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OH NO!!!!
Do to legal and professional standards MAGPUL wont risk an illegal transaction for the benefit of one individual!?!?!? Dear god, what has our world come to? If MAGPUL interprets the written law one way, and you another, YOU ARE ALWAYS RIGHT! I mean, its not like they even offered to refund you the cash value of the item in question so that you could buy another from midway. Oh wait, they actually did. Go to Christ and lay off the ice brother! |
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Quoted:
BTW I am the one who spoke with the OP. Here's Hawaii's law: “The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited." Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-8(c). The clincher is the wording, "...or capable of use with a pistol ...". Our PMAGs are not designed as pistol mags, but they for sure are capable of being used in an AR15 pistol and therefore technically not legal in that state. Now the penalty may not be very high if actually used in a rifle ("Any person violating subsection (c) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor except when a detachable magazine prohibited under this section is possessed while inserted into a pistol in which case the person shall be guilty of a class C felony."), and apparently there is lax enforcement locally, but the law is still the law. Regarding the assertion that "AR type pistols are non existent in Hawaii", I don't believe this to be entirely true either: "After July 1, 1992, no person shall bring or cause to be brought into the State an assault pistol..." Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-4(e). So, while there may not be many AR pistols in the state that can accept our magazines, there is the distinct possibility that there are some that were grandfathered in before 1992... Believe me, we'd love to be able to sell our mags to every state in the Union. But as a responsible business, and as law abiding folks, we choose to follow these state laws regardless of the needs or opinions of any dealer or consumer. Also to clarify, we do not have a written warranty on any of our products. However, we are consistently recognized for our customer loyalty and we work hard to make sure that each purchase results in a customer for life. At anytime, if you ever experience an issue with a Magpul product, please contact us directly and we’ll do our best to help you. In this case though, our hands are tied... Lawyered......... (how i met your mother reference)
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Thats BS! Even if they are concerned about it why not just send the mag dissassembled as a "repair kit" or just send you only the part that is defective? Hell, at least offer to refund your money so you can buy a replacement from one of the "blackmarket" distributors like MidwayUSA There is a way around everything.... but when discussing these issues over the phone he really didn't want to agree with anything I had to say... Hard to believe after reading this: Quoted:
... The Big shock to me is A major manufacturer of magazines (Magpul) would not be professional enough to understand each states gun laws that would effect their products!!!!...
OP, feel free to enlighten us as to how Magpul is not being "professional". Or perhaps this is just a buzz word you like to throw around during your temper tantrums. 
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Quoted: Last week............................. So in a nutshell you are mad that a corporate entity is averse to lawsuits and other legal entanglements. There are AR-15 pistols, and the possibility exist however slight that there are some "grandfathered" examples in Hawaii. That very fact based on Hawaii law makes it reasonable for any manufacturer to not send 30 round magazines to Hawaii. Do not fault Magpul but instead have some home grown legal challenges to your poorly worded laws. |
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Well if midway will ship pmags to HI then why dont you see if magpul can credit midway for one pmag and have midway send you out one and you send your back to magpul. You would like us to knowingly skirt the law by using alternative channels? Not a good idea... I will say this about any of our Dealers/Distributors- they are independent companies that are free to conduct business as they see fit. We will not ship mags to Hawaii due to how OUR legal team interpreted the law. Others may choose differently. Remember, laws don't hold any validity until they are upheld in court, and we would rather not risk that challenge. |
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I mean, its not like they even offered to refund you the cash value of the item in question so that you could buy another from midway. Quoted:
Since the magazine was not purchased from us we cannot do a refund. I would be willing to credit the OP the value of the mag for other products Oh wait, they actually didn't.
Fixed it for you. I would have done the same thing in Justin's shoes. It sucks a lot that a customer has a defective product, but it's not worth criminal penalties. Sorry to hear your troubles, OP. Try getting a replacement through Midway. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Last week I called Magpul service because I had a window pmag with a defect.I asked the rep about warranty and was told that there was a warranty and they would send out a prepaid shipping envelope to send the mag to Magpul in.So far exellant service! Then I was asked for my address.When I told the service rep that I lived in Hawaii,the rep said that even though the warranty would cover the magazine;we can not ship a 30 round mag to Hawaii because of the state gun laws! I was kind of shocked because only pistol magazines are restricted to 10 rounds,and rifles are not restricted at all.All types of assault pistols are not allowed in this state,so AR type pistols are non existent in Hawaii.I was then transferred to a supervisor who tried to explain that Magpuls legal department would not let them honor the warranty by sending out the replacement for the defective magazine to the state of Hawaii.I explained that the magazines are legal and suggested that the supervisor take a look at the Hawaii gun law on the internet to see for himself!I mentioned that I had purchased lots of magpul 30 round mags from several venders ;such as Midway.He then told me that Magpul doesn't violate state gun laws even if company's like Midway do! I was told that the warranty was effectively void because of my state of residence! I am a huge Magpul fan and have a ton of pmags and all sorts of AR type accessories on my AR 10 and 2 Ar 15's including full Moe furniture on my new Ar carbine! I will be adding BAD levers soon.The Big shock to me is A major manufacturer of magazines (Magpul) would not be professional enough to understand each states gun laws that would effect their products!!!! To add insult to injury; the supervisor then tried to sell me on the fact that Magpuls legal team had concluded that ;The state of Hawaii has lax enforcement on the gun laws relating to Ar magazines even though they were illegal! It doesn't take a legal team to see that 30 round magazines are legal in Hawaii and it would seem to be incumbent on any manufacturer of magazines,especially a market leader to know the laws of the states their products are sold in! JB BTW I am the one who spoke with the OP. Here's Hawaii's law: "The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited." Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-8(c). The clincher is the wording, "...or capable of use with a pistol ...". Our PMAGs are not designed as pistol mags, but they for sure are capable of being used in an AR15 pistol and therefore technically not legal in that state. Now the penalty may not be very high if actually used in a rifle ("Any person violating subsection (c) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor except when a detachable magazine prohibited under this section is possessed while inserted into a pistol in which case the person shall be guilty of a class C felony."), and apparently there is lax enforcement locally, but the law is still the law. Regarding the assertion that "AR type pistols are non existent in Hawaii", I don't believe this to be entirely true either: "After July 1, 1992, no person shall bring or cause to be brought into the State an assault pistol..." Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-4(e). So, while there may not be many AR pistols in the state that can accept our magazines, there is the distinct possibility that there are some that were grandfathered in before 1992... Believe me, we'd love to be able to sell our mags to every state in the Union. But as a responsible business, and as law abiding folks, we choose to follow these state laws regardless of the needs or opinions of any dealer or consumer. Also to clarify, we do not have a written warranty on any of our products. However, we are consistently recognized for our customer loyalty and we work hard to make sure that each purchase results in a customer for life. At anytime, if you ever experience an issue with a Magpul product, please contact us directly and we’ll do our best to help you. In this case though, our hands are tied... Yup, since that mag can go into an AR pistol, its a no-go to ship from out of state. |
| Midway––––-No shock here,was surprised that Magpul interpreted the law as they did and put a replacement mag in the mail! Their legal team saw it the way most large online retailers did.The law could be more clear....no harm or foul on Magpuls part! Justin's tone is a little snotty and condescending....Oh well. JB |
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Quoted: So they won't warranty a magazine because of the law.. Sounds right. In all honesty, it's a $20 16 magazine.. Just buy another one. This. Who warranties a wear product that cost less than the shipping to return it? ETA I am in california and have a bag full of Pmags. |
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Quoted:
Midway––––-No shock here,was surprised that Magpul interpreted the law as they did and put a replacement mag in the mail! Their legal team saw it the way most large online retailers did.The law could be more clear....no harm or foul on Magpuls part! Justin's tone is a little snotty and condescending....Oh well. JB Sorry if I came off that way, but the original post was quite critical and negative... |
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Midway––––-No shock here,was surprised that Magpul interpreted the law as they did and put a replacement mag in the mail! Their legal team saw it the way most large online retailers did.The law could be more clear....no harm or foul on Magpuls part! Justin's tone is a little snotty and condescending....Oh well. JB Sorry if I came off that way, but the original post was quite critical and negative... Shit, I was going to say you're being too nice. |
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I have been told by DSArms when buying FAL mags in Maryland were the law is more than 20rnds is illegal that I can't but a 20rnd FAL mag, this makes no sense because it isn't a 21rnd mag, so it falls within the laws of MD, but no dice, it sucks but legal BS is always in the way of common sense.
When I lived in NY, they ban all mags over 10rnds, EXCEPT pre-ban mags, again a few years ago, DSArms only sold Pre-Ban 20 rnd Austrian mags, they marketed them as pre-ban mags, but would not sell them to me because they didn't understand the law... No that I have a C&R, some places won't let me buy C&R guns because I live in MD, and MD has stupid laws that are unclear, but even after a letter from our state firearms official explaining that selling pistols to C&R FFL holders over the internet/phone was 100% legal, Classic Arms still won't let me buy a CZ-82... Maryland also has laws saying it is illegal to buy/sell/trade/give/receive a magazine over 20rnds but it says nothing about having them. So you take a quick trip out of state to VA, PA, DE and buy them and bring them back, you are legal, YAY, but Magpul will likely not honor the warranty on any of my (30+) 30rnd mags... Oh well. lawyers and stupid laws, they make the world stop... 
But that said, I can understand, the last thing any firearms company needs is a State or Federal case for doing something the state didn't like, even if it is stupid, a $12 PMAG could cost Magpul hundreds of thousands of R&D money to fight. I would recommend giving the mag to a friend/family member on the CONUS side next time you come and visit and let them get the replacement for you if it is that important. It sucks but sometimes that is just how it is. |
| I can see how legal teams could go both ways. yes you do have AR pistols in which a 30 round mag would be illegal in hawaii but I imagine another lawyer could justify that AR mags are legal to ship to hawaii as an AR's standard configuration is a rifle. So you can't really fault magpuls legal team for taking the safest approach |
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Midway––––-No shock here,was surprised that Magpul interpreted the law as they did and put a replacement mag in the mail! Their legal team saw it the way most large online retailers did.The law could be more clear....no harm or foul on Magpuls part! Justin's tone is a little snotty and condescending....Oh well. JB Sorry if I came off that way, but the original post was quite critical and negative... Shit, I was going to say you're being too nice. This. |
| When I lived in California I never begrudged a company for deciding to read the law in a way that offered them the most protection. Its their business and I cannot blame them for protecting it, even though I thought they were wrong. I think Justin was more than nice about it and went above and beyond what would be reasonable. It sucks for the OP, but that is the reality of the laws. |
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Quoted: Midway––––-No shock here,was surprised that Magpul interpreted the law as they did and put a replacement mag in the mail! Their legal team saw it the way most large online retailers did.The law could be more clear....no harm or foul on Magpuls part! Justin's tone is a little snotty and condescending....Oh well. JB Funny how people who feel slighted tend to project their own attitude back to the person they perceive slighted them. |
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This is why it is highly unlikely I will ever move back to MD... and if I, by off-chance, did, I would have at least one CC billing and shipping address in another state. Quoted: I have been told by DSArms when buying FAL mags in Maryland were the law is more than 20rnds is illegal that I can't but a 20rnd FAL mag, this makes no sense because it isn't a 21rnd mag, so it falls within the laws of MD, but no dice, it sucks but legal BS is always in the way of common sense. When I lived in NY, they ban all mags over 10rnds, EXCEPT pre-ban mags, again a few years ago, DSArms only sold Pre-Ban 20 rnd Austrian mags, they marketed them as pre-ban mags, but would not sell them to me because they didn't understand the law... No that I have a C&R, some places won't let me buy C&R guns because I live in MD, and MD has stupid laws that are unclear, but even after a letter from our state firearms official explaining that selling pistols to C&R FFL holders over the internet/phone was 100% legal, Classic Arms still won't let me buy a CZ-82... Maryland also has laws saying it is illegal to buy/sell/trade/give/receive a magazine over 20rnds but it says nothing about having them. So you take a quick trip out of state to VA, PA, DE and buy them and bring them back, you are legal, YAY, but Magpul will likely not honor the warranty on any of my (30+) 30rnd mags... Oh well. lawyers and stupid laws, they make the world stop... But that said, I can understand, the last thing any firearms company needs is a State or Federal case for doing something the state didn't like, even if it is stupid, a $12 PMAG could cost Magpul hundreds of thousands of R&D money to fight. I would recommend giving the mag to a friend/family member on the CONUS side next time you come and visit and let them get the replacement for you if it is that important. It sucks but sometimes that is just how it is. |
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Last week I called Magpul service because I had a window pmag with a defect.I asked the rep about warranty and was told that there was a warranty and they would send out a prepaid shipping envelope to send the mag to Magpul in.So far exellant service! Then I was asked for my address.When I told the service rep that I lived in Hawaii,the rep said that even though the warranty would cover the magazine;we can not ship a 30 round mag to Hawaii because of the state gun laws! I was kind of shocked because only pistol magazines are restricted to 10 rounds,and rifles are not restricted at all.All types of assault pistols are not allowed in this state,so AR type pistols are non existent in Hawaii.I was then transferred to a supervisor who tried to explain that Magpuls legal department would not let them honor the warranty by sending out the replacement for the defective magazine to the state of Hawaii.I explained that the magazines are legal and suggested that the supervisor take a look at the Hawaii gun law on the internet to see for himself!I mentioned that I had purchased lots of magpul 30 round mags from several venders ;such as Midway.He then told me that Magpul doesn't violate state gun laws even if company's like Midway do! I was told that the warranty was effectively void because of my state of residence! I am a huge Magpul fan and have a ton of pmags and all sorts of AR type accessories on my AR 10 and 2 Ar 15's including full Moe furniture on my new Ar carbine! I will be adding BAD levers soon.
The Big shock to me is A major manufacturer of magazines (Magpul) would not be professional enough to understand each states gun laws that would effect their products!!!! To add insult to injury; the supervisor then tried to sell me on the fact that Magpuls legal team had concluded that ;The state of Hawaii has lax enforcement on the gun laws relating to Ar magazines even though they were illegal! It doesn't take a legal team to see that 30 round magazines are legal in Hawaii and it would seem to be incumbent on any manufacturer of magazines,especially a market leader to know the laws of the states their products are sold in! JB BTW I am the one who spoke with the OP. Here's Hawaii's law: “The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of use with a pistol is prohibited." Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-8(c). The clincher is the wording, "...or capable of use with a pistol ...". Our PMAGs are not designed as pistol mags, but they for sure are capable of being used in an AR15 pistol and therefore technically not legal in that state. Now the penalty may not be very high if actually used in a rifle ("Any person violating subsection (c) shall be guilty of a misdemeanor except when a detachable magazine prohibited under this section is possessed while inserted into a pistol in which case the person shall be guilty of a class C felony."), and apparently there is lax enforcement locally, but the law is still the law. Regarding the assertion that "AR type pistols are non existent in Hawaii", I don't believe this to be entirely true either: "After July 1, 1992, no person shall bring or cause to be brought into the State an assault pistol..." Haw. Rev. Stat. § 134-4(e). So, while there may not be many AR pistols in the state that can accept our magazines, there is the distinct possibility that there are some that were grandfathered in before 1992... Believe me, we'd love to be able to sell our mags to every state in the Union. But as a responsible business, and as law abiding folks, we choose to follow these state laws regardless of the needs or opinions of any dealer or consumer. Also to clarify, we do not have a written warranty on any of our products. However, we are consistently recognized for our customer loyalty and we work hard to make sure that each purchase results in a customer for life. At anytime, if you ever experience an issue with a Magpul product, please contact us directly and we’ll do our best to help you. In this case though, our hands are tied... OGC in Honolulu carries a ton of Magpul stuff including a wall of 30 round PMags. As do most other gun shops. Hell, I even met Rich Fitzpatrick in Waikiki Gun Club as I was buying some PMags after a range session. If I order mags, it's usually from Brownells who has no problem shipping here. OTOH, many reputable online vendors do not... SKD comes to mind. But, I cannot think of any Hawaii shops that do not carry 30 round AR mags. For what it is worth, I am a LEO in Hawaii. As far as I know, from my experience and speaking with various DA/ADAs, we have never had an incident where someone was arrested or prosecuted, or a report was even generated for a 30 round magazine. There are many incidents where 30 round AR mags were used in, or present during the commission of crimes ranging from violent felonies to simple weapons possession violations. The mags are never an issue. The Prosecutor's Office here does not view the mags as illegal, nor does the ADA in my county who specifically deals with firearms crimes. That said, Justin is correct. The law, as written, is fucking stupid... and sadly this type of language is typical of the Hawaii Revised Statutes. Try reading the laws on concealed weapons . Despite how it is locally interpreted, the law allows for the possibility of prosecution for possession of a standard AR mag. Has it ever happened? Not to my knowledge. Will it? Probably not. Could it? Definately... until the language has been changed, OR case law is made. Who wants to be the example?
While the OP's issue is shitty... it comes along with living in Hawaii, and it's not Magpul's fault. There is a discussion on this subject in the Hawaii HTF on this if anyone wants to get in on it. Any other local LEOs or lawyers with info or opinions on this? Also... Justin, What about shipment of mags from Magpul to Hawaii LEOs, who are exempt from the HRS pertaining to magazine capacity? |
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or capable of use with a pistol
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It doesn't take a legal team to see that 30 round magazines are legal in Hawaii and it would seem to be incumbent on any manufacturer of magazines,especially a market leader to know the laws of the states their products are sold in! JB your right...it doesn't take a legal team............ your reading comprehension fails.....badly...... it reads very clearly.....what part of that don't you understand???? |
| This is one of the main reason why I left home(Hawaii). The laws that gets put in place are beyond reason and comprehension. The magazine law is so poorly written and it was done that on purpose almost 20 years ago. Changing any laws for the better is next to impossible in Hawaii. The only way I believe that actual change is to get rid of the majority of the idiotic dems in office and their cronies in the court system. |
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Might as well continue the discussion –– how does the 'repair kit' thing not work in California?
CA Attorney General Letter on the subject Quoted:
The whole 'repair kit' thing doesn't work in Hawaii. It also does not work in California, but that is another discussion... |
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Might as well continue the discussion –– how does the 'repair kit' thing not work in California? CA Attorney General Letter on the subject Quoted:
The whole 'repair kit' thing doesn't work in Hawaii. It also does not work in California, but that is another discussion... First off, I should state that we are not attorneys and cannot offer legal advice. Also please bear in mind that the letter referenced is essentially the opinion of Deputy Attorney General Alison Merrilees. It holds little to no legal weight and, until the matter gets taken before a judge to get ruled on, it should be viewed as no more than an opinion. Basically it all comes down to this- how can you legally own "replacement parts" to "repair" a high-capacity magazine when that magazine was never legal to own to begin with? PMAGs were first released in January 2007 and therefore never existed pre ban... |
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Basically it all comes down to this- how can you legally own "replacement parts" to "repair" a high-capacity magazine when that magazine was never legal to own to begin with? PMAGs were first released in January 2007 and therefore never existed pre ban... Not to put words in vandals mouth, but I think that he was talking about "replacement mag parts" in general since you stated that replacement parts didn't work in Cali, not specifically PMAG replacement parts. I don't blame any manufacturer for not wanting to test the legal waters in any state. Basically, it is up to those of us who live in the state at question to fix the problem, not the manufacturer. At least the OP lives in Hawaii, where some of us could only dream of going there for a weeks vacation  .
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Quoted: Midway––––-No shock here,was surprised that Magpul interpreted the law as they did and put a replacement mag in the mail! Their legal team saw it the way most large online retailers did.The law could be more clear....no harm or foul on Magpuls part!Justin's tone is a little snotty and condescending....Oh well. JB I don't think so at all. And if I were their in house counsel (and what an awesome job that would be) I'd have said the same thing. |
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Quoted:
I have been told by DSArms when buying FAL mags in Maryland were the law is more than 20rnds is illegal that I can't but a 20rnd FAL mag, this makes no sense because it isn't a 21rnd mag, so it falls within the laws of MD, but no dice, it sucks but legal BS is always in the way of common sense. When I lived in NY, they ban all mags over 10rnds, EXCEPT pre-ban mags, again a few years ago, DSArms only sold Pre-Ban 20 rnd Austrian mags, they marketed them as pre-ban mags, but would not sell them to me because they didn't understand the law... No that I have a C&R, some places won't let me buy C&R guns because I live in MD, and MD has stupid laws that are unclear, but even after a letter from our state firearms official explaining that selling pistols to C&R FFL holders over the internet/phone was 100% legal, Classic Arms still won't let me buy a CZ-82... Maryland also has laws saying it is illegal to buy/sell/trade/give/receive a magazine over 20rnds but it says nothing about having them. So you take a quick trip out of state to VA, PA, DE and buy them and bring them back, you are legal, YAY, but Magpul will likely not honor the warranty on any of my (30+) 30rnd mags... Oh well. lawyers and stupid laws, they make the world stop...
But that said, I can understand, the last thing any firearms company needs is a State or Federal case for doing something the state didn't like, even if it is stupid, a $12 PMAG could cost Magpul hundreds of thousands of R&D money to fight. I would recommend giving the mag to a friend/family member on the CONUS side next time you come and visit and let them get the replacement for you if it is that important. It sucks but sometimes that is just how it is. I live in Maryland and have more 30 round p-mags than I care to count. They are legal to own and if they brake I know Magpul will not honor the warranty. Welcome to the USA. It is not Magpul’s fault. It is fine with me if a VA deal gets the $$$ for my p-mags. If there is a paper trail back to Magpul you do something wrong, who do you think will be sued - you or a multi-million dollar company. |