Posted: 11/24/2005 12:06:21 PM EDT
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O.K., I just basically got my ass chewed for retaliating against someone who doesn't believe Recruiters care about their applicants. I've already apologized for being nasty, so don't jump on me. But this got me thinking, why do people direct their un-happiness with the Military at thier Recruiters? Over my 4 years of Recruiting for the Army, I've run into ALL kinds of people with all kinds of opinions about Recruiters, so I figured I'd try and clarify some things on here to help people understand why Recruiters get a bad rap that they don't deserve. 1. First off, we don't have quotas, we have missions. That might not make sense to some of you but try and think about it in a Military sense. Every month, I am assigned a mission to put people in the Army. SOmetimes I am suppose to find Seniors, sometimes grads. The average mission is 2 per month. I don't get paid on commision, I'm just an NCO trying to do what the Army asked me too. It's called DUTY. 2. The most common complaint we hear from people is that thier Recruiter lied to them.I know for a fact that there are some corrupt, lying Recruiters out there, I've met some. But they are the minority. You have to remember, we are Soldiers too. We weren't born Recruiters, hell, most of us tried like hell to get out of this shit. We are NCO's who do our best to abide by the NCO creed. We're not perfect. And there is NO way we can totally prepare someone for life in the Military. So there will always be things that happen that your Recruiter didn't tell you about, it's the Army, shit happens. 3. This is what pissed me off. I mentioned on another thread that I actually care about the people I enlist. Another individual basically thought that I was full of shit. I can't prove to you that I care about the yong men and women that I enlist, but I promise you that I do. And so do the NCO's that I work with. Think about it. These are young people who are looking for something to do with thier lives. Our responsibility is to guide this young person and hopefully motivate them to take advantage of the Military benefits in order to make thier lives better. We essentially become part of the family, a trusted advisor, it's not something we take lightly. Sometimes we lose applicants because we tell them about the bad shit they might have to go through, but I'd rather lose them now than lie to them and make them miserable in the Army. 4. Here's the big one......WE'RE NOT PERFECT!!! Sometimes we leave out details about life in the Military that later on you might have wanted to know. We didn't do it on purpose, we are human beings and sometimes we forget things. There are alot of details that we simply don't think about telling applicants or we just flat out forget. We deal with dozens of people a month and it's hard to make sure that everyone one of them is equally informed. Sorry, it just happens. Bottom line is this. I am a non-commisioned officer, a leader of Soldiers. I will NEVER intentionally mis-lead or lie to ANYONE to get them to join the Army. I am not the exception, I am the rule. I'm sorry if you feel that your Recruiter lied to you, maybe he did, maybe he just forgot to tell you something, or maybe you just mis-understood. Please don't automatically lump us all into the same group. It only takes one individual to make a bad name for the rest of us who are trying our damnedest to be honest with every person we meet. I'm done with Recruiting now. I go to Germany in a couple of weeks, and from there I'm sure I'll deploy to Iraq soon. If I ever run into a Soldier that I put in the Army and he says he feels like I lied to him, I guarantee you it will crush me. But I'm confident that it will never happen because I know that I was as honest as I could be with every person that I enlisted. And that's all that matters. Thanks for letting me vent. |
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Our sons recruiter was extremely honest with him and with us. He recruited for the NG. He also gave up his recruiting duties to deploy to Iraq with all of them to. He's a real stand up guy,and when he did that he went up a few more places in our book. As we told our son since we were both prior service, we'd be his best friend with a recruiter. He checked out all the services to see what they had to offer also. |
Enjoy vegas while you can. Im going home to Cali for leave for Xmas. Gonna be in a t-shirt and shorts no matter how cold it actually gets at home. Whats the worst thats gonna happen, its gonna rain on me? |
My recruiter was a slimeball, who fucked as many female recruits, prospects, and family members of prospects as he could. But, he didn't lie to me and I got what I thought I wanted. Good on you, leatherpuke, for being one of few who actually try to live up to the NCO creed anymore. Far too many people are getting into the NCO corps just b/c of time in grade/service, and without the requisite leadership recommendations and NCOES. I predict a very bad decline in the quality of the NCO corps in the next few years, as the good guys get out from the BS, the bad ones get promoted, and the new guys suffer. Good luck in Germany and be safe if you head this way. |
My recruiter(s) were all great guys, in fact the Senior Chief (just so happened to be a bubblehead as well ) showed the few of us in the office some homemade film of river boats in Vietnam and what the area looked like before/after the Tet offensive.One has to remember, that a recruiter is a salesman, and as in ANY profession that requires sales, some are not honest at all. Those I believe are few. Keep up the good work. 
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I'm afraid I'll have to agree with you. I know ALOT of squared away NCO's that are getting out simply because of the deployment rate. THey've seen enough and are moving on in droves. Unfortunately, some of those vacancies are going to be filled by underqualifed people, and you're right, the new guys are the ones that suffer form poor leadership. It's not all doom and gloom though. The people that we are enlisting these days are not the typical " I just want the college money" crowd. They are more patriotic then they are given credit for and they are joining mainly out of a sense of duty. THese folks are the ones who will be filling the NCO ranks in a few years. So I think we'll be OK for the most part. Hell, if the Army can survive the 70's, we can survive anything. |
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I never had a issue with my recruiter. He took a lot of crap from the kids at the high school. I liked him, I even had him over for dinner with my parents. To this day, none of my feelings that I experienced are related to my recruiter. Ssgt Duke (yup his real name) Where ever you are, I salute you! |
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When an asks me, "is basic hard"? I reply, "no not reall" and leave it at that. When an app says they want to be a pilot, I say, "Anything’s possible" I don't force them to do anything, I can't. Sometimes I wish I could, but I can't. Some kids really need a push. So you find out what makes them tick and sell them on a possibility. Actually, you really can get ALOT out of joining any branch, if you apply yourself. People get pissed because stuff isn't handed to them in the military; you have to bust your butt for anything that’s really worth a damb That’s when they blame their recruiter. WAAAWAA, my recruiter promised me I could go to college. AAAHH BS, no I didn't. I offered 100% tuition assistance. You go to school on your time=more busting your ass. Recruiters get crapped on all the time because we are the first contact with a military person many have ever had. Believe it or not, recruiters are picked from the best pesonel in their field, aahh usually, a few turds slip through. Because of that, applicants want to be them, that doesn't happen overnight. Some understand that, most don't. |
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Recruiters are like prostitutes. They get paid to fuck you but it's never personal. However, After nearly 24 years, I still have a good relationship with my recruiter. We both work in the same field and we run in to each other from time to time. He didn't fuck me per se because I wanted in the USMC. I contacted him. However, even though I wanted to be a rifleman, he sold me on aviation because I scored high enough. He could have put just about anyone in the grunts but he needed to fill his technical fields when he found qualified applicants, regardless of the applicants desires. So, he B.S'd me out of the life I wanted and in to the slot that he needed to fill. To me, that makes him an asshole. Or at least a guy doing the job of an asshole. |
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I did a recruiting tour. Usually if anybody "lies" it's the kid who lies to himself. Example scenario: A kid comes in, barely makes weight, barely can do the PT minimums required to go to recruit training. He's never played a sport and he's never been an outdoorsman, hunter, backpacker, whatever. The kid says, " I want to go Force Recon". The recruiter says, "The best way to do that is to enlist infantry. I can't gaurantee Recon, but you will usually get the chance to try out in Infantry School and later in your unit, but it's very hard to do. You could do it, but its very competitive." The recruiter can tell this kid won't make Recon, but who knows, sometimes they surprise you, anything is possible. The kid leaves and tells everybody, "I'm going Force Recon." Four years later, the kid has never made Force Recon, in fact he never even tried to go to the indoc. Not only that, but he's been booted out of his Company and spent the last 18 months signing out towels and balls at the base gymn. Home on leave he sees a buddy, who says, "How come you're not in Recon?" "Oh, my recruiter fucked me." |
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I don't know about the other branches, but it's the shittiest job in the Army. 14-16 hour days, 6 days a week. Dickhead 1SGs and Station CDRs breathing down your neck and giving you corrective training on weekends for not making mission. Being micro-managed 24-7. My buddy was awarded "Recruiter Of The Year 2001". 2 months later he failed to make mission and was told by the SGM that he was a waste of the Army's time. To hell with recruiting. |
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In 1968 I returned from 2 and 1/2 years in RVN. The Corps assigned me to recruiting duty. This was in March 1968, like 1 month after the Tet offensive. I was assigned to recruit volunteers for the USMC when the casualty rates were 500+ per week. I never signed up one person. I could not lie and tell them they were not going to VietNam. In those days there were 2 kinds of Marines, those who had been to RVN nad those who were going to RVN. So I ended up being a driver and assistant for the Casualty Notification Officer. I got to assist in telling people their kids , fathers and relatives had been blown away in RVN. For a bonus the Corps also assigned me to be a member of the honor guard and burial party. Got to fire the 21 gun salute, wave a sword or fold the flag at the discretion of the CO. I think I would have rather stayed in the 1st Mar Div RVN and tried for a fourth heart. Recruiting is a thankless and very hard job. Semper Fi. Charles CWO3 USMC (ret). 
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The three times that I've enlisted, my first recruiter was an asshat, but, I knew what I wanted and what to expect so that was a non-issue. The other two were straight up, very forthcoming and I was prior service and essentially bullshitproof, so that was a non-issue. The one that out me back in several months ago, I have deep respect for, we became good friends, I trust him enough to send two of my sons to him, and they've enlisted as well. He was straight up with them and my sons were all the better for it. Just like all vocations, there are both the assholes and the good hard chargers in every lot. It took a recruiter to help me get into things I wanted to do. BTW, did I mention that I dont regret being in the .mil? |
That is exacly what happened to me, I went to MEPS with the idea of going infantry for 4 years and was told by the career counselor that there were no options available in combat arms, but they had a wonderful aviation job that came with 6 years instead of 4. Being that I didnt feel like arguing with the guy I took it and became a powertrain mechanic. On the ride home from Des Moines that evening, my recruiter told me that the guy before me requested my job, but wasnt qualified, so he got the 11B slot and I took the 68D he wanted. Funny how they do that eh? I think when Im ready to re-up again Ill do something like Cav Scout or Forward Observer, only got 10 years til retirement so I might as well go have fun. |
Probably every recruiter responding here has done something similar to this many times. Of course, they won't see anything wrong with it. They are looking out for the needs of the service which really is their job afterall. The fact is, they don't care what you want. They try to put you where they need you. |
Couldn't have said it better myself. BTW .... at the time I went to the ARC, 89% of the recruiting force was detailed, selected from the top 10% of each CMF. I'd have to say I agreed with that figure, because the recruiters in my company were the most professional group of soldiers that I had the pleasure to serve with in 21 years of active duty. Chris San Bernardino RS Santa Ana Rctg Bn '89-'92 |
| In my opinion, no intelligent recruiter would want to spend his two to three years lying to applicants. Eventually, that NCO is going to go back to the "Big Army" and might possibly have one of his applicants working for him. If he was dishonest to that soldier, how long would it take for that Private to tell all his battle-buddies about how fucked-up the NCO was. |
And the very easy solution is to say no. Recruiters don't actually put you in, that's done at MEPS. If MEPS doesn't offer you the job you want, tell them no and try again next month. That's what I did when they told me that there were no 11 spots open. Don't blame a recruiter or the MEPS for you not being able to stand up for yourself. Now, I'm sure that the recruiters aren't going to go out of their way to point out all the bad stuff you'll have to deal with, but most aren't going to straight out lie about anything. |
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My recruiter was top-notch. He was very laid-back, no pressure, and spent plenty of time with me going over all of my options. He also took me to a couple of different bases to check things out & talk to people who were already in so I could get a better idea of what AF life was about. He then got me in with a guaranteed job (some sort of aviation electronics, I forget now), and took care of every last detail for me, so that all I had to do was show up at MEPS. Once I got to basic, everything was exactly how he said it would be. No complaints from me. |
But the fact remains that you told the guy, a vet, to kill himself because you don't like his opinion....  The "Army of One" slogan isn't meant to be taken literally, knowhutmsayin? Reconcile yourself to the fact that others might have a different/hostile opinion of recruiters. If you're honorable in your job, but know that there are some recruiters who are scumbags, then you can sleep well knowing the guy's statement wasn't directed at you or the other "good" recruiters. Car salesmen & lawyers have it far worse than recruiters do, so suck it up, thicken your skin & press on. And my recruiter used to hand-deliver little complimentary AF gift bags to my house. Lots of nice things, like gift certificates for spa/massage/manicure; scented candles; fuzzy slippers; temporary tattoos with the AF logo; vitamin-enriched hand lotions; and more. He even enrolled me in the "flower of the month club" at the AF's expense. Do you do that? |
That's a valid point from an adults perspective. However, recruiters prey on the naive 17 year old who has no life experience to speak of. They look up to a recruiter as someone that can be trusted. Someone who is looking out for their best interest. Because that's how a recruiter presents himself. An adult should know better. |
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Actually, if we are dealing with a 17 year old, we spend more time selling the parents than we do the kid. They have to sign the parental consent, so they are almost always the one asking the most questions and wanting to see everything in writing. This also applies quite often to applicants in the 18-22 year old range since alot of them still live at home. Even though they are of legal age, the parents still have the dominate buying power. If dad doesn't believe the Recruiter, especially in a Hispanic family, forget it, deals off. It's actually VERY difficult to mis-lead anyone about the Military anymore. All a kid has to do is get on-line and do alittle research to find out if a Recruiter is lying. So it is in our best interest to be as honest as possible. I don't know why I care anymore......I GOT MY CLEARING PAPERS YESTERDAY!!!!! I'm done with this nightmare, back to the line for me. WOOHOO!!!
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How many times did you direct a kid away from the field that he wanted because he qualified for something else and you needed people for that field? |
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It doesn't work that way for us. I can't speak for the other branches, but we don't get pressured to put kids in certain fields. That's why we now have a program that allows an applicant to pick his own job, from the Recruiting Station, befor he ever goes to MEPS. It takes the pressure off of the kid and allows the parents to be involved in the decision process. What you might be referring to is GED's. Generally, a kid with a GED is not going to get the pick of the litter when it comes to jobs. He will still get to pick his own job, but his choices are going to be limited to critical fields only. It doesn't matter if he gets a 99 on the ASVAB, a male applicant is most likely going to be offered comabt arms jobs ONLY. SO to answer your question, I've never steerd a kid away form the field he wanted so I can fill avacancy in a critical field. We simply don't care what job the kid picks. Our job is to get them in boots. Whether it's Infantry or sattelite communications doesn't matter to us. Again, the other branches might be different, I can only speak for the Army. |
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i was a recruiter for three years in central Michigan. I got into three accidents, wrecking one of the cars, because i tried to keep getting the job done... even when i was tired. i ran a three-man office by myself, covering a four-county area that included over twenty schools and three universities. sometimes sleeping at the office... because i was too tired to drive home safely. i worked hard. my first sergeant was a career recruiter who had a gambling problem that she decided to support with a government credit card, she became a Staff Sergeant and was kicked out of the army two months short of her retirement. a fellow station commander was a PX Ranger, wearing a tab for over eight years and he never earned it. he was sent back to the regular army, to a regular infantry unit... he then was reduced to the rank of specialist, i never heard about what happened to him after that. another staff sergeant in an adjoining town was sent to prison for statuatory rape and rape involving several incidents, he was an MP investigator ironically. there are bad apples. i put in over a company's worth of men in three years. some of these men i was able to serve with in Iraq. one of my applicants (prior service) thought about going to SF, and found out about where i was to be assigned in the near future after recruiting. we got an assignement for him there after we waded through over a year's worth of paperwork to get him back in. we did most of these late at night after he got off of work... all hours of the night. he's a mechanic just returning from Iraq, he's made his SFAS tryout, was selected and we're studying Farsi together to bone him up before the DLI. i have been to marriage counseling twice, just to get some time with my wife. i have driven over several thousands of miles to get to appointments, applications, physicals, swearing-in ceremonies and applicants shipping to basic combat training. i have attended every single swearing-in ceremony for every one of my applicants. i have had firearms drawn on me, later to be hugged and cried on by the same man... for helping their son be a better person. i have been at many a dinner table talking to moms and dads, sometimes taking my wife... so they know i'm not lying, answering all sorts of silly questions and debunking stupid myths and outright accusations. i have paid dearly for telling the truth, working long hours into the night, because i wouldn't send a young man or woman to MEPS if i thought they were going to come up hot on a urinalysis, or because i know that they really don't want to join the service. i told the truth as i knew it about my fellow servicemembers and have earned their friendship and respect at a large cost to myself as far as gaining applicants went. if i had an applicant that was more suited to another branch i would refer them, something that was not always reciprocated. in the end i was able to look into the mirror and still like what i saw... keeping my self-respect and integrity and the admiration and love of my beautiful wife, who supports me even more so today. she suffered too. in the end i earned the Army's second-highest award for recruiters, the ring. two of my applicants won the Silver Star in Afghanistan and Iraq, one of them posthumously. three others won bronze stars, one of them with a "V" device for courage in the face of the enemy. The rest i am not sure of, but of the young men and women that keep in contact with me, i know that they did well by themselves and those they served with. i hear nothing but good things from their commanders, first sergeants, peers, parents... even the media. i am just glad that they were able to be where they were supposed to be, when they were supposed to be. they helped a lot of people, i'm just glad to have been a part of that. now i am going to be a drill sergeant. |
AMEN BROTHER.........TESTIFY!!!!!! |
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I had four counties and 12 high schools and the farthest one was 2 1/2 hours away. I put so many miles on my G-jet I used up the entire BNs mileage 3 months strait. The 1SG and the CO had to park their G-jets cause I used up their monthly mileage. I was the farthest station away from MEPS, 3 1/2 hour drive. I used to take my fancy 4X4 on interviews to keep from getting shot at by the drug growers in the area. Nothing says "Kill me" like government plates in deep rural Missouri. |
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I got along great with my recruiter (Army). In fact, I had no complaints at all about the entire enlistment process, with one small exception. This being signing my initials 5,000 fucking times, while leaning into the pen with all my negligible weight plus rocks in my pockets, so as to make sure it went through all 50 copies; I spent my whole last weekend as a civilian with writer's cramp. Incidentallly, if I were to met him today I'd shake his hand, buy him a meal, and tell him "thanks". Even though I didn't go the full 20, I still enjoyed the hell out of my time in the army (most of it, anyway). Sooooooooo....... Since I can't thank HIM, I'll have to thank you other recruiters. The military makes a hell of a lot of people better than they were, and it all begins with you guys. |
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