Posted: 6/26/2009 4:19:40 AM EDT
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I've seen an increasing number of these types of news stories and wanted to get the opinions of the pros.
I find the trend truly disturbing. I'm thinking specifically of the story in Phoenix where BGs posing as LEOs knocked on the door, gained entry, bound and gagged the home occupants and robbed at will. Any LEOs here want to pipe up with recommendations? What's the best course of action in a case like this? I can tell you if I was a LEO I'd be pursuing these guys with everything I had. This undermines the very ligitimacy of Law Enforcement. Not to mention, significantly increases the danger to legitimate LEOs approaching a house. "Let's be careful out there!" Thanks for everything you do out there protecting your fellow man. I spent 20+ in there military and currently work for a Federal Law Enforcement agency in a support role and I honor you for what you do! 
Thanks, SMS-ret |
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This is a touchy subject because it very well could be an impersonator that your talking to. Be observant and stay Frosty...if it feels wrong or doesnt look right then it might not be right. If someone comes knocking at your door at 2am and you look outside and its a police officer but you dont feel comfortable answering the door call 911 and let dispatch know the situation and they will verify everything thats going on, same thing goes for shady vehicle stops. There have been several times I have seen people post pictures and tell stories online about all the cop gear they have and with the how easy it can be to get a badge theres always a chance.
Theres even been a few times that officers have come in to the booking area of the jail in 5.11 pants a duty belt and a black shirt with a tac vest on that says police and I have wondered what agency they are with. |
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We call them Pseudo-Cops down here in South Texas on the border. Usually it involves hitting a drug trafficker's house and taking his stash of dope or his money. I hit a house on a warrant one time, and the girls were saying "take what you want." I think they had been hit by the Pseudo-cops before. We take a marked unit to show that we are legit, since most narcs drive unmarked vehicles.
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There are a few different varieties of these clowns:
The poser: These are the guys that talk the game online and in forums and but make no overt attempt to impersonate LE in real life. Usually CJ students, gamers, applicants or youngsters. Every site has a few... including this one. Can evolve into the wannabe. The wannabe: These are the guys you hear stories about actually going out on raids with cops, or gaining access to some function of LE under false pretenses. These guys are the ones that drive the used Crown Vics, have basketweave wallets, carry scanners and know police procedures as well as or better than real cops. They talk in police lingo and dress in 5.11s or Blackhawk 24/7. Usually spawned from washed out police applicants, explorers, .mil LE troops, security guards or actual non-sworn PD employees. Not usually a threat beyond their access to LE function.. but can evolve into "predators." The predator: These are the dirtbags with red lights and scanners that like to pull over women driving alone. They are usually armed with 5.11s, a mail order or eBay badge, a trunk full of duct tape and chloroform, and a desire to impose their will on solo women. These guys are dangerous. Usually they steer clear of men or anyone they perceive to be a threat. More than a few serial rapists here have been caught with police items. Scammers: These are the guys that will impersonate LE as part of a scam. Usually over the phone or online. Known to impersonate LE to solicit donations, get information or counter intelligence or intimidate witnesses. The gangster: These are the cons, gangsters and other hardcore dirtbags that have a working knowledge of LE from the "other end." These are the crews that dress in BDUs and cop swag to orchestrate a take over robbery, dope burn or kidnapping. Very dangerous. They take advantage of the confusion associated with a legitimate raid and can be near impossible to discern from real LE during the incident. Prison gangs have been seen practicing "3 man bump", stacking, searches and other LE tactics. |
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Quoted:
There are a few different varieties of these clowns: The poser: These are the guys that talk the game online and in forums and but make no overt attempt to impersonate LE in real life. Usually CJ students, gamers, applicants or youngsters. Every site has a few... including this one. Can evolve into the wannabe. The wannabe: These are the guys you hear stories about actually going out on raids with cops, or gaining access to some function of LE under false pretenses. These guys are the ones that drive the used Crown Vics, have basketweave wallets, carry scanners and know police procedures as well as or better than real cops. They talk in police lingo and dress in 5.11s or Blackhawk 24/7. Usually spawned from washed out police applicants, explorers, .mil LE troops, security guards or actual non-sworn PD employees. Not usually a threat beyond their access to LE function.. but can evolve into "predators." The predator: These are the dirtbags with red lights and scanners that like to pull over women driving alone. They are usually armed with 5.11s, a mail order or eBay badge, a trunk full of duct tape and chloroform, and a desire to impose their will on solo women. These guys are dangerous. Usually they steer clear of men or anyone they perceive to be a threat. More than a few serial rapists here have been caught with police items. Scammers: These are the guys that will impersonate LE as part of a scam. Usually over the phone or online. Known to impersonate LE to solicit donations, get information or counter intelligence or intimidate witnesses. The gangster: These are the cons, gangsters and other hardcore dirtbags that have a working knowledge of LE from the "other end." These are the crews that dress in BDUs and cop swag to orchestrate a take over robbery, dope burn or kidnapping. Very dangerous. They take advantage of the confusion associated with a legitimate raid and can be near impossible to discern from real LE during the incident. Prison gangs have been seen practicing "3 man bump", stacking, searches and other LE tactics. ^ Pretty much says it all. We had a State Attorney down here get canned for impersonating an Officer not to long ago......because he worked for the State Attorney's Office he got an "early retirement" instead of charges...impersonators take all forms! |
| Our gang/drug Task Force in San Diego all wore jeans, regular button up shirts or tee shirts. We drove all manner of vehicles and had different badges from the various agencies in the TF. Our vests / body armor had placards identifying us a LEOs and had cloth / silk screened badges on them. The placards said, POLICE, SHERIFF, PAROLE, FEDERAL AGENT and a couple of others. If there was going to be a question of who we might be, as in a hard knock, we always had uniformed Officers with us. Otherwise it was just a knock and talk. If no one answered the door, we went away. Looks can be deceiving and if there is going to be a hard knock, there is almost no time for you to do anything except answer the door before they hit it or take cover. If they are pounding on the door and they don't have a door knocker, they probably are not going to kick the door in (and I say probably). In any event, you should be on the phone like the poster above suggested, calling 911. |
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Quoted:
I've seen an increasing number of these types of news stories and wanted to get the opinions of the pros. I find the trend truly disturbing. I'm thinking specifically of the story in Phoenix where BGs posing as LEOs knocked on the door, gained entry, bound and gagged the home occupants and robbed at will. Any LEOs here want to pipe up with recommendations? What's the best course of action in a case like this? I can tell you if I was a LEO I'd be pursuing these guys with everything I had. This undermines the very ligitimacy of Law Enforcement. Not to mention, significantly increases the danger to legitimate LEOs approaching a house. "Let's be careful out there!" Thanks for everything you do out there protecting your fellow man. I spent 20+ in there military and currently work for a Federal Law Enforcement agency in a support role and I honor you for what you do!
Thanks, SMS-ret I would say call 911 and ask if there are real cops at your door, but as a federal task force member who works plain clothes, I don't think it will do any good if the feds are at the door. We don't always notify the locals when hitting houses and if you don't open the door and we hear you inside, it's coming down. Asking to see come credentials via the peephole might work, too. |
| The real risk to everyone involves the no knock warrants and these impersonators. If you know you are breaking the law and get your door kicked in and there are shouts of "police", most likely it is the real deal. If you are not a criminal and your door gets kicked in at night and they yell "police" it is either: A) criminals posing as police. B) police with an obvious mistake. So you gamble with your life no matter what you choose to do. |
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I've seen an increasing number of these types of news stories and wanted to get the opinions of the pros. I find the trend truly disturbing. I'm thinking specifically of the story in Phoenix where BGs posing as LEOs knocked on the door, gained entry, bound and gagged the home occupants and robbed at will. Any LEOs here want to pipe up with recommendations? What's the best course of action in a case like this? I can tell you if I was a LEO I'd be pursuing these guys with everything I had. This undermines the very ligitimacy of Law Enforcement. Not to mention, significantly increases the danger to legitimate LEOs approaching a house. "Let's be careful out there!" Thanks for everything you do out there protecting your fellow man. I spent 20+ in there military and currently work for a Federal Law Enforcement agency in a support role and I honor you for what you do!
Thanks, SMS-ret I would say call 911 and ask if there are real cops at your door, but as a federal task force member who works plain clothes, I don't think it will do any good if the feds are at the door. We don't always notify the locals when hitting houses and if you don't open the door and we hear you inside, it's coming down. Asking to see come credentials via the peephole might work, too. You don't run your stuff though RMIN? |
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I've seen an increasing number of these types of news stories and wanted to get the opinions of the pros. I find the trend truly disturbing. I'm thinking specifically of the story in Phoenix where BGs posing as LEOs knocked on the door, gained entry, bound and gagged the home occupants and robbed at will. Any LEOs here want to pipe up with recommendations? What's the best course of action in a case like this? I can tell you if I was a LEO I'd be pursuing these guys with everything I had. This undermines the very ligitimacy of Law Enforcement. Not to mention, significantly increases the danger to legitimate LEOs approaching a house. "Let's be careful out there!" Thanks for everything you do out there protecting your fellow man. I spent 20+ in there military and currently work for a Federal Law Enforcement agency in a support role and I honor you for what you do!
Thanks, SMS-ret I would say call 911 and ask if there are real cops at your door, but as a federal task force member who works plain clothes, I don't think it will do any good if the feds are at the door. We don't always notify the locals when hitting houses and if you don't open the door and we hear you inside, it's coming down. Asking to see come credentials via the peephole might work, too. You don't run your stuff though RMIN? Nope. Never heard of RMIN. |
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The real risk to everyone involves the no knock warrants and these impersonators. If you know you are breaking the law and get your door kicked in and there are shouts of "police", most likely it is the real deal. If you are not a criminal and your door gets kicked in at night and they yell "police" it is either: A) criminals posing as police. B) police with an obvious mistake. So you gamble with your life no matter what you choose to do. Thats a little disheartening! 
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The real risk to everyone involves the no knock warrants and these impersonators. If you know you are breaking the law and get your door kicked in and there are shouts of "police", most likely it is the real deal. If you are not a criminal and your door gets kicked in at night and they yell "police" it is either: A) criminals posing as police. B) police with an obvious mistake. So you gamble with your life no matter what you choose to do. Thats a little disheartening! It is, but if you get a bunch a plainclothes guys, hell even people with police tactical gear on (I mean really how hard it is to get the gear that entry teams wear), and you are just a hard working joe and with these "cops" now at your door I think it would be iffy. At to that all of these types of break ins going on and you being a law abiding citizen it ought to be enough to clear you if they did hit the wrong house. |
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I've seen an increasing number of these types of news stories and wanted to get the opinions of the pros. I find the trend truly disturbing. I'm thinking specifically of the story in Phoenix where BGs posing as LEOs knocked on the door, gained entry, bound and gagged the home occupants and robbed at will. Any LEOs here want to pipe up with recommendations? What's the best course of action in a case like this? I can tell you if I was a LEO I'd be pursuing these guys with everything I had. This undermines the very ligitimacy of Law Enforcement. Not to mention, significantly increases the danger to legitimate LEOs approaching a house. "Let's be careful out there!" Thanks for everything you do out there protecting your fellow man. I spent 20+ in there military and currently work for a Federal Law Enforcement agency in a support role and I honor you for what you do!
Thanks, SMS-ret I would say call 911 and ask if there are real cops at your door, but as a federal task force member who works plain clothes, I don't think it will do any good if the feds are at the door. We don't always notify the locals when hitting houses and if you don't open the door and we hear you inside, it's coming down. Asking to see come credentials via the peephole might work, too. You don't run your stuff though RMIN? What does RMIN have to do with it? |
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Won't let me edit my last post 
Well, I have NEVER seen people posing as cops raid a non-dope dealing, whore smuggling, or fence's house. It has ALWAYS been doper on doper. The news is about sensationalism, not facts. I haven't seen any home invasions like that, but I have seen street rips by police impersonators. They usually target dealers. |
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Won't let me edit my last post
Well, I have NEVER seen people posing as cops raid a non-dope dealing, whore smuggling, or fence's house. It has ALWAYS been doper on doper. The news is about sensationalism, not facts. We had a string here in Ohio that were Gangbangers posing as "La Migra" and hitting Illegals on payday fridays. The people other than the Illegal Immigrant bit were law abiding, hard working non assholes. |
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I've seen an increasing number of these types of news stories and wanted to get the opinions of the pros. I find the trend truly disturbing. I'm thinking specifically of the story in Phoenix where BGs posing as LEOs knocked on the door, gained entry, bound and gagged the home occupants and robbed at will. Any LEOs here want to pipe up with recommendations? What's the best course of action in a case like this? I can tell you if I was a LEO I'd be pursuing these guys with everything I had. This undermines the very ligitimacy of Law Enforcement. Not to mention, significantly increases the danger to legitimate LEOs approaching a house. "Let's be careful out there!" Thanks for everything you do out there protecting your fellow man. I spent 20+ in there military and currently work for a Federal Law Enforcement agency in a support role and I honor you for what you do!
Thanks, SMS-ret I would say call 911 and ask if there are real cops at your door, but as a federal task force member who works plain clothes, I don't think it will do any good if the feds are at the door. We don't always notify the locals when hitting houses and if you don't open the door and we hear you inside, it's coming down. Asking to see come credentials via the peephole might work, too. You don't run your stuff though RMIN? What does RMIN have to do with it? IM sent |
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On this:
Quoted:
There are a few different varieties of these clowns: A: Quoted: The poser: These are the guys that talk the game online and in forums and but make no overt attempt to impersonate LE in real life. Usually CJ students, gamers, applicants or youngsters. Every site has a few... including this one. Can evolve into the wannabe.
B: Quoted:The wannabe: These are the guys you hear stories about actually going out on raids with cops, or gaining access to some function of LE under false pretenses. These guys are the ones that drive the used Crown Vics, have basketweave wallets, carry scanners and know police procedures as well as or better than real cops. They talk in police lingo and dress in 5.11s or Blackhawk 24/7. Usually spawned from washed out police applicants, explorers, .mil LE troops, security guards or actual non-sworn PD employees. Not usually a threat beyond their access to LE function.. but can evolve into "predators."
........... C: Quoted:Scammers: These are the guys that will impersonate LE as part of a scam. Usually over the phone or online. Known to impersonate LE to solicit donations, get information or counter intelligence or intimidate witnesses.
.......... A, B, and C with B and C first. B: Do recognize that not everyone who wears Tac shirts who isn't actively a cop is an imposter. I wear Tac shirts all the time because they are extremely functional in the computer/outside world of Texas, of moving in and out of different environments. Now, usually it's with jeans, but if I were doing environmental dune work again, Tac trousers would probably be the best choice to achieve full khaki against the sun. (although...... I tend to wear Tac shirts like equipment vests, something I can take off and drape over a chair when driving or such; not sure how that approach would go with trousers) C: I was in a class about special police ops and we were doing an exercise where my part involved working with the public information section for a major incident (disaster, school hostage, something like that). I made the recommendation that we request from the Governor's office a counterintelligence officer (whether or not they send one is up to them, but the point is that we made the request) to monitor our operation in case there was someone trying to access PI for data to assist an enemy. This came from my intel/counterintel Navy days.................but that suggestion rather caught a lot of people, police and not, by surprise as if it had never been considered before. What might be a warning point to either of these? Someone who engages in conversation and wants to talk, know details about active cases, operations, or those of recent times, especially those which are more spectacular. And then we come to A: I do not take it personally but I do not discount the possibility that there could always be people who see me like that. But then again, people might see me like anyhow and I think that is, in part, that when one is not of this world at all, it might be that they assume a lot. My older brother told me once that he would not be surprised to find out that I worked for INTERPOL or someone like that, given my expanse of knowledge, the details. When I picked him up at the airport the other month, he mistook my new CB radio as a scanner, given my various activities and research projects. And if your own brother is assuming that, someone who has known you all your life..............what might the general public assume? Back to the topic: the good point about A, that is, if there were someone with my intellect but being a bad girl posing as a LEO, is that I don't think they would go that route. It would take to too long to be accepted, to reach a feel good state, there are too many possibilities to be tripped up on. (it doesn't matter to ME because I'm not trying to pose, I'm honest). The bad point? It might be an approach for someone trying to be a mole. ____________________________________________________ ("Sir, you don't believe that Sgt. Milner is guilty (of murder), do you?"––"Sam"(antha) Stewart, DCS Foyle's driver "Haven't I told you that we never discuss cases?"––Foyle, laying down the law. "Yes, Sir,"––Sam, quietly, realizing the line she has crossed. "Have we ever discussed any case?"––Foyle, still coming across as hard. "No, Sir,"––Sam, quietly "Are we going to discuss this case?" "No, Sir.", (w,stte), Foyle's War "Bleak Midwinter") |
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Thanks for all the informed responses. I do feel a bit smarter and more relaxed on the topic.
I realize this is an extremely low probability threat to a law abiding citizen, however...let's face it, much of what we prepare for is a low probability threat. I don't expect to be in a car accident, but I wear my seat-belt every time. 
Thanks again for all you do! SMS-ret. |
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On this: Quoted:
There are a few different varieties of these clowns: B: Do recognize that not everyone who wears Tac shirts who isn't actively a cop is an imposter. I wear Tac shirts all the time because they are extremely functional in the computer/outside world of Texas, of moving in and out of different environments. Now, usually it's with jeans, but if I were doing environmental dune work again, Tac trousers would probably be the best choice to achieve full khaki against the sun. (although...... I tend to wear Tac shirts like equipment vests, something I can take off and drape over a chair when driving or such; not sure how that approach would go with trousers) Agreed; from my observations and experience, the "whackers" are the ones who wear the PD logo clothing in public and flaunt it at every chance. I have noticed that many regular folk wear solid-colored tactical/BDU trousers in public, and I have no problem with that, in fact I thinkthat sometimes they are perfect for a situation where jeans or slacks would be impractical or uncomfortable, like doing yard work. It is the logo/badge type shirts that always make me wonder. Personally I never wear anything badged or with a logo in public; it just makes me a target and screams for the wrong kind of attention. I will even go so far as to drive home from training in a plain white tshirt, just in case the wrong person sees an agency shirt I may have been wearing. |