Posted: 3/10/2009 7:16:04 PM EDT
| Well, we got hit with OC today. I'll tell ya what, Cap-Stun is some evil shit. Zarc Industries got it right with that stuff. Felt like I was bobbing for apples in a deep fryer. |
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Well, we got hit with OC today. I'll tell ya what, Cap-Stun is some evil shit. Zarc Industries got it right with that stuff. Felt like I was bobbing for apples in a deep fryer. I thought that my "Voluntary" exposure felt more like sticking my face in a runaway gas grill... MK-6 burns like the devil's own piss right in your face... but then I also got hit with a double stream, of about 4 or 5 seconds each... Extra zesty! I would rather be tasered in the balls than get peppered again. |
When I got hit with it last, I smelled oranges and my throat got tight. Then again, I wasn't sprayed directly. They went easy on us. We walked into a small shack with a pepper bomb going off and sprayed TOWARD us. I'll get hit straight on very soon. I'm sure I'll know what you are talking about then.
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It's a process I'm glad I went through, if for just but one reason. Now I know how bad this stuff incapacitates me. If someone grabs my spray, I'll be able to clearly justify why my use of force just shot through the roof.
On another note, I'm just glad the range didn't use Zarc's Vexor (15,000,000 SHU). Cap-Stun was wicked. |
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The first time getting sprayed sucked.
Then after what seems like a gazillion "accidental" sprayings on the street (friendly fire) you start to become some what of an OC connaisseur. After several sprayings you will soon be able to detect the amount of scoville heat units administered give or take 500. Once you have reached this stage of OC exposures, you will find yourself whipping out your OC and giving your taco a blast of OC in lieu of salsa. |
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I've never been tazed.... so yea, it was the worst thing I've ever experienced. I've been tazed. I'll take the tazer any day of the week over the OC spray. Screw that. Me 2, both suck but taser goes away instantly when it is off. I have been sprayed so many times btween instructor school/re-certs and just overzeaous partners on the street that I it does not bother me as much any more but I would still take a ride over being sprayed. J- |
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It's a process I'm glad I went through, if for just but one reason. Now I know how bad this stuff incapacitates me. If someone grabs my spray, I'll be able to clearly justify why my use of force just shot through the roof. On another note, I'm just glad the range didn't use Zarc's Vexor (15,000,000 SHU). Cap-Stun was wicked. This is an excellent point. I can clearly justify going lethal if someone blasts me with OC. |
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It's a process I'm glad I went through, if for just but one reason. Now I know how bad this stuff incapacitates me. If someone grabs my spray, I'll be able to clearly justify why my use of force just shot through the roof. Curious; where do you see OC fitting in on a force continuum? |
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It's a process I'm glad I went through, if for just but one reason. Now I know how bad this stuff incapacitates me. If someone grabs my spray, I'll be able to clearly justify why my use of force just shot through the roof. Another great reason (the main one I used while training our dept) to take a voluntary taser exposer when trained. J- |
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It's a process I'm glad I went through, if for just but one reason. Now I know how bad this stuff incapacitates me. If someone grabs my spray, I'll be able to clearly justify why my use of force just shot through the roof. Curious; where do you see OC fitting in on a force continuum? Typically OC is just above verbal commands in LE use of force continuum, but if someone uses OC on an LE, deadly force is normally warranted in response. The person is trying to incapacitate the LE. At that point they can take your sidearm, asp, etc and kill you. |
OC the gift that keeps on giving. |
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It's a process I'm glad I went through, if for just but one reason. Now I know how bad this stuff incapacitates me. If someone grabs my spray, I'll be able to clearly justify why my use of force just shot through the roof. Curious; where do you see OC fitting in on a force continuum? Typically OC is just above verbal commands in LE use of force continuum, but if someone uses OC on an LE, deadly force is normally warranted in response. The person is trying to incapacitate the LE. At that point they can take your sidearm, asp, etc and kill you. What he said. For us, OC is placed between verbal commands and "hard" hands. |
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OC blended with CS (Freeze +P) is the bomb. The OC opens the pores of your skin and allows the CS to get in deep for that special feeling 
Folks that shrug off regular OC seem to have the proper reaction to Freeze +P mixture. + 1 It's what we are issued
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OC blended with CS (Freeze +P) is the bomb. The OC opens the pores of your skin and allows the CS to get in deep for that special feeling
Folks that shrug off regular OC seem to have the proper reaction to Freeze +P mixture. + 1 It's what we are issued us too, very effective. J- |
| For us OC fits on actively resistant, and running falls into that category. You know what every single person does when they jump a fence? Turns around and looks for you. It is a great to have the can ready and waiting to wink at them just as they are launching themselves over and get a nice dose in the eyes. :) |
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I have been an Ocat Instructor for 8 years and have probably certified 100 or so in that time. Personally I'll take the taser 10 times for each blast from the can. It takes me 45 plus minutes for me to recover. Call me evil, but when I spray the trainee they get the eyes, nose, throat and skin treatment. I want them to feel the full effect. 2ft. Snot Strings are normal.
Question for other instructors????? What is your ratio of people who "shut down" when sprayed???? To date I've had 3 out of about a 100. |
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It's a process I'm glad I went through, if for just but one reason. Now I know how bad this stuff incapacitates me. If someone grabs my spray, I'll be able to clearly justify why my use of force just shot through the roof. Curious; where do you see OC fitting in on a force continuum? There is no continium. That is the "old paradigm." We look at all of our equipment, OC, Baton, taser, gun, hands on, etc., as tools in a tool box. Simply put, based on the situation you can use any tool that is warranted. For example, I guy has a knife at 30 feet and is walking toward me. I will have my gun out - not my taser. At the same time I will give verbal commands to drop the knife. |
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It's a process I'm glad I went through, if for just but one reason. Now I know how bad this stuff incapacitates me. If someone grabs my spray, I'll be able to clearly justify why my use of force just shot through the roof. Curious; where do you see OC fitting in on a force continuum? There is no continium. That is the "old paradigm." We look at all of our equipment, OC, Baton, taser, gun, hands on, etc., as tools in a tool box. Simply put, based on the situation you can use any tool that is warranted. For example, I guy has a knife at 30 feet and is walking toward me. I will have my gun out - not my taser. At the same time I will give verbal commands to drop the knife. I was taught that the continuum is not continuous. If someone is helling at you and then pulls out a gun, you don't have to give them verbal warnings, then OC them, then hit them with an ASP and then shoot them. The theory is +1 in the continuum. Use that force necessary to handle the threat, but not excessive. Someone yells at you, you can't shoot them, but you can OC them. You know the drill. |
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Our PD recently threw out the old continuum and has gone to a much simpler policy of "using what force is necessary to effect the arrest."
Our use of force policy went from being several pages long to being a few paragraphs long. Basically, we have more room to do whatever we want when we need to use it as long as we can ARTICULATE why we did it. It made everything simpler and we no longer here from FNG's that say "Well, I didn't use my stick because he didn't actually hit me." There are less stops in the use of force OODA Loop. |
| The stuff we use is 17% OC + CS, wicked wicked stuff. I remember feeling the sting on my eyes from the impact before the burn sets in (instructor was waiting to hit us in our open eyes with a 2-3 second burst). It took me two days until the effects were over. That being said it hurt but it didn't stop me from doing anything I had to do, the Taser on the other hand although only five seconds is the only thing i've encountered that can stop me in my tracks. For training purposes I'd rather be taze'd any day but on the street a tazer would take me out of the fight, so i'd much rather face OC. |
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Quoted: The first time getting sprayed sucked. Then after what seems like a gazillion "accidental" sprayings on the street (friendly fire) you start to become some what of an OC connaisseur. After several sprayings you will soon be able to detect the amount of scoville heat units administered give or take 500. Once you have reached this stage of OC exposures, you will find yourself whipping out your OC and giving your taco a blast of OC in lieu of salsa. I'm almost there..I haven't got below 1000 yet though on the SHU guess.  |
