Posted: 12/24/2008 3:06:59 PM EDT
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Why do cops stop after two shots? A lot of police shootings I read about the cop shoots twice,, if not a major shoot out. Why does the cop stop shooting????? At the range today I was dumping my mag in about 2 seconds. Then I started thinking why would I cop stop after 2 shots? If a shitbag was trying to kill someone why would you not unload ?? Do people generally drop lifeless after 2 hits and the threat is eliminated?? That or trained that way are my two ideas. Thanks, Steve |
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Simply put, some cops are taught to, "shoot to stop."
If the offensive action stops........stop shooting. IF it continues.......continue shooting until the offensive action stops. Then, there are some cops that will double tap out of habit. Because, of their training. HTH. Aloha, Mark |
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Training.
They train with double taps or 2 to the chest, one to the head for body armor drills. I have heard stories from the range (don't know how true) of officers being found killed in a gunfight with a handfull empty brass from there revolvers in their hands, because when they trained, they dumped the empty brass in there hand and threw it in a bucket before reloading. You fight the way you are trained. |
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Our standard response is two rounds center mass presented then evaluate. Repeat until the threat stops. We are not there to kill someone but stop the threat. Also its a better way to conserve ammo.... I used to be a cop around 10 years ago & usually never had more than 46 rounds on me when I had a 9mm & 22 when I switched to a .45 Its also why the military changed the M16A1 from semi/full auto to semi/3 round burst |
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Training. They train with double taps or 2 to the chest, one to the head for body armor drills. I have heard stories from the range (don't know how true) of officers being found killed in a gunfight with a handfull empty brass from there revolvers in their hands, because when they trained, they dumped the empty brass in there hand and threw it in a bucket before reloading. You fight the way you are trained. What SOP's adv head shots? Even military snipers are taught center mass unless you have IDEAL conditions. |
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Training. They train with double taps or 2 to the chest, one to the head for body armor drills. I have heard stories from the range (don't know how true) of officers being found killed in a gunfight with a handfull empty brass from there revolvers in their hands, because when they trained, they dumped the empty brass in there hand and threw it in a bucket before reloading. You fight the way you are trained. What SOP's adv head shots? Even military snipers are taught center mass unless you have IDEAL conditions. Mine does.It's called a failure to stop drill in my deparment. We are taught to engage the largest exposed portion of the body, preferably the upper torso. Sometimes, this means the head. If properly performed, "stopping the threat" will end the life of the attacker. Not what should be stated in court,but reality nonetheless. |
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These troublesome things they call "innocent bystanders" comes to mind. I believe that is why police officers are not trained in the so-called "mag dump."  You bring up a very valid point. A double tap, in some instances is not the correct action. That is why.........personally.........I would not "just double tap" ANY threat. Yes, some Departments may teach it that way. But, consider......... If the "stop" can be accomplished with one shot. Why take the chance of the second shot and the possibility of hurting an innocent bystander? OK.......we're suppose to be smarter than that. Anyway, consider that too. Aloha, Mark |
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Simply put, LAWYERS and LAWSUITS.
Same reason if you CCW you are taught to stop the threat. Once you stop the threat anything else can get you in trouble. You can easily turn a self defense situation into a murder situation. If it takes 5 shots to stop the threat so be it, but there is a fine line and LAWYERS are tightrope walkers. Once the threat is stopped/neutralized you better stop. |
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We have a history of unload magazines into anything and everything in the area.  This  The big civilian complaint around here is "Why did they have to shoot (whoever) 31 times ?! He was the nicest career criminal around !" We get scenes with, like, 72 FCC's
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Training. They train with double taps or 2 to the chest, one to the head for body armor drills. I have heard stories from the range (don't know how true) of officers being found killed in a gunfight with a handfull empty brass from there revolvers in their hands, because when they trained, they dumped the empty brass in there hand and threw it in a bucket before reloading. You fight the way you are trained. What SOP's adv head shots? Even military snipers are taught center mass unless you have IDEAL conditions. I guess I wasn't clear. We practice double taps from close range (about 7 yards and in) There is also a a simulated body armor drill (failure to stop). Two center mass. Pause and evaluate, then 1 head shot- again from 7 yards or closer |
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Why do cops stop after two shots? A lot of police shootings I read about the cop shoots twice,, if not a major shoot out. Why does the cop stop shooting????? At the range today I was dumping my mag in about 2 seconds. Then I started thinking why would I cop stop after 2 shots? If a shitbag was trying to kill someone why would you not unload ?? Do people generally drop lifeless after 2 hits and the threat is eliminated?? That or trained that way are my two ideas. Thanks, Steve I've never been taught "double tap" or "two to the chest, one to the head." Those "techniques" (if you can call them that) are outdated and falsely popularized by TV and movies. I've always been taught to aim for center mass and keep shooting until you feel the threat is eliminated. I haven't shot anyone yet, but I've heard plenty of stories of meth'd-up mofos taking 15-20 rounds before falling. It's amazing what the human body can endure, especially with the aid of stimulants. |
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Why do cops stop after two shots? A lot of police shootings I read about the cop shoots twice,, if not a major shoot out. Why does the cop stop shooting????? At the range today I was dumping my mag in about 2 seconds. Then I started thinking why would I cop stop after 2 shots? If a shitbag was trying to kill someone why would you not unload ?? Do people generally drop lifeless after 2 hits and the threat is eliminated?? That or trained that way are my two ideas. Thanks, Steve I've never been taught "double tap" or "two to the chest, one to the head." Those "techniques" (if you can call them that) are outdated and falsely popularized by TV and movies. I've always been taught to aim for center mass and keep shooting until you feel the threat is eliminated. I haven't shot anyone yet, but I've heard plenty of stories of meth'd-up mofos taking 15-20 rounds before falling. It's amazing what the human body can endure, especially with the aid of stimulants. Again, "two shots to center-of-mass, evaluate effect, shot to head if target may have on concealed body armor" - we DO call that a technique, it is officially taught by our departmental range instructors and is completely up-to-date. It isn't from TV or anywhere else. If you have put a number of shots on the "center of mass" (for example, two; maybe more, certainly less than "15-20" IMO) and you're not observing a "threat-neutralizing" effect, you may want to consider it. Soft body armor just isn't that hard for these guys to get, and has in fact become increasingly common - hence, this drill. As for "keep shooting until you feel the threat is eliminated," absolutely THIS. No one, anywhere, can or will ever officially tell you otherwise. It's the whole reason for shooting in the first place - why would you not ? And this is where the big "zillion FCC" shooting scenes come from; in those tiny seconds or less from the first shot until one or three guys with hi-cap semi-autos all feel that the threat has been eliminated, they can get off A LOT of shots. It's more a function of the weapons than the men - you didn't have this back in revolver days. This is the part that civilians and the press don't understand, but I hope the criminals understand it WELL, because some deterrent effect up front would be nice too 
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| Virtually all of my agency's training centers on a qualification course where the target turns edge on to the shooter after every 2 shots. Therefore, our officers are pretty thoroughly programed to expect what they are aiming at to go away after they fire 2 rounds. |
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Virtually all of my agency's training centers on a qualification course where the target turns edge on to the shooter after every 2 shots. Therefore, our officers are pretty thoroughly programed to expect what they are aiming at to go away after they fire 2 rounds. This is far too common and is dangerous. While this training has its place, it should never be the only type of shooting done at the range. You will mimic this in the real world if this is the only training you do. Push hard to have this changed. |
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Years of training the double tap. Also many qual courses use the double tap. Need to move to threat stopping drills, 3 to 7 rounds. This is why I've begun using lots of steel targets on the range. We have some that are adjustable and will require 4 to 5 fast solid hits with .40 to knock them over. I think it is far better training than double tapping paper targets. |
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It is a "controlled pair" of shots these days, not a double tap.
Do not use cool gun board jargon in your report or in front of the Grand Jury. No one will be impressed. I teach my officers to shoot until the threat is eliminated. That may take one round or ten rounds. Articulate the event in great detail and make sure it is a good report. Some bad guys drop after one, some take more. We own every round we fire and are responsible for them. "Spray and pray" is not an option. Mag dumps are fun at the range. Real people that are being shot at do not stand still. |