[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Off to FLETC, AMF. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/9/2008 12:16:40 AM EDT
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A little update... Breakfast, Hard Boiled egg's and 1 slice of toast, some sweet tea cut in with unsweet tea. Lunch, 2 Chicken Breasts that I either kill with hot sauce or slice up for my own style of chicken ceaser salad, same cut tea. Dinner, see lunch. I hate the back packs and the fat asses here who insist on wearing them while in the chow hall line...if I go nuts, this will be the reason why. I have 2.5 cases of water in my room at any given moment. I will be 35 in may, 20 somethings are way out of shape, whiners, etc...but that is everywhere in life. I did my 1.5 in 10:48 (3rd in my group), I benched 295 ( 1st in my group) (wanted to break 300, but the shoulder was tweaking, going for 320 when I leave), did the agility in 15.68 (1st in my group), the stretch test is about as dumb of a thing as we can do...but, I do it with motivation. I have met a few good guys there that I am sticking with...we like to hit the weight pile, work out, run, eat, study then throw some beers back. Wal Mart is like saturday night in the trailer park, 24/7. My cigars are a life saver, I get to veg, drink some water, and keep the sand fleas away. I am staying in 95, nice new rooms, private sh!tter, close to the chow hall, class room and the gym. I am glad I am not in the Taj. We get Club Nine Five going on sat nights for a bit before we either hit St. Simmons or the G..Jax is coming in a few more weeks. I DD. One of the guys I hang with and work out with is a "guido" from the internet pics, young mid 20 guy, dyed spike hair, shirts and clothes, but the guy is a hard charging patriot and knows we all have a purpose here. I am very, very surprised with what I have seen with some of the other agency types here (and my own)....I never thought there would be so many out of shape dudes in Federal LE...I just don't get it... I spoke with the CBP Air and Marine class guys, they all have time in BP and CBP, all of them said the same thing..."You must door knock to get into the air branch, go meet, greet, talk and stay on top of it all..not one guy in the class was hired into the air branch (non pilot types) without knowing someone prior to apply...so, we'll see what happens when I get back... I got hired by the FAMS...last week. I got the final offer, yet there is a problem. I was 'promissed' DTW in the hiring process at two different times..long story short, looks like they want me in EWR and only EWR. If that is the case (I have another few days as there is some updated of my final offer as I have a cleared SF86), I am going to decline and stick with the current gig and I will apply again for the FAMS...been in that process since Dec of 2005...but I dont get the feeling they (FAMS) are into looking past the numbers, there is an ARFCOMER here that has been a HUGE help in my FAM hiring process and making calls, and for that I am grateful... The academics so far have been pretty boring, the 24/7 carry rules and reg's, I am interested in learning more about...if it is what I think it will be, I will leave it at the home and I will continue to Mi CCW...1st test is in a few days...should be good to go with the way I am hitting the books and the note cards. I wonder why so many people here have Federal LE stuff splattered all over their cars. Last thing I want is attention...maybe I am in the wrong here, or just boot to the life...ha. One thing that I am pretty upset about is the Church situation here. FLETC has a small Catholic service Sunday afternoon, but that is is. I am not a Catholic, I will not attend that service...but what upsets me is the lack of information about Churches out in the surrounding towns. FLETC has no 'list', the only info I can find is what is buried on the cork boards...I googled some places last week, and I was running out of a church about 1/2 way through...that story and what took place after is best left for another thread...  People here are pretty polite, people out in town are S...L...O...W. We are going to start getting into the meat of it all this week, so I am looking forward to the Defensive Tactics and the Arresting Stuff as well as interacting with the role players... Semper Fi. |
Get it.  Good bench, btw. I broke 300x5 a few weeks ago. |
That's what all the people who don't get the Taj say. Waaa. Waaaaaa!  hehe
Since I've lost my religion, I haven't been to church in a very long time. But I could have sworn the Sunday service was non-denominational. Catholicism ain't the big thing down south, so I'm wondering why that's the only one there. |
Yeah...I hear you...I would rather get a few guys together that are hunting here as well...Grew up Catholic, they have some good things going on, but it aint me. I couldn't give it "..all my heart and mind.." Quick note...I was able to put together a Rueben sammich and had it to the grill lady...it was the highlight of my day today 
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As Federal Officers, we can carry our duty weapon 24 hours a day... ie, on and off duty. What Ziti is saying, is that he's thinking of not carrying his duty weapon, but his own firearm according to Michigan CCW laws. |
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its almost better to carry your personal CCW than the Fed issue piece. Your scope of carry is limited to personal protection and assisting other LEOs ONLY. They say to "not get involved" and "Be a good witness", also you are NOT liable for not doing anything. Using your own CCW (could?) mean getting involved as a private citizen, and leaving the agency out of any responsibility, taking full responsibility (including lawsuits withOUT agency representation) onto yourself. CBPs HK P2000 isnt that small of a weapon, and there is an approved list of off duty carry holsters. Your personal CCW setup is probably a better way to go. |
Did some decednt PT today...it was motivating. Aint no one here going to break or hurt me  Studying, having a good time. But I have been pretty bored so far...Arrest and Defensive work is coming up, so that will be new for me. I feel asleep today in a firearms briefing class....was told my grip (thumbs forwards) is terrible and my sling shot method sucks...so, we'll see what the paper say's after punching some holes in it...if I have to adjust with this double action pistol, I will...always open for change. Hit St. Simmons beach on Saturday, it was nice...got some sun. Going to some FLETC sponsored minor league game this coming sat..$10 for transpo, beer and BBQ....we'll go after the beach since it is a night game. Bugs are starting to get bad, I am used to the water   The weather here has been awesome. I am going home for Memorial Day as it will be my 35th and my sons 5th (we have the same B-day)....I miss my wife  Classifications and all the damn exemptions are just crazy! I locked horns, so to speak with the FAMS...I withdrew my application offically today and going to see this through. They insisted on EWR and wouldn't think of sending me to DTW, so I passed..... |
I am having a hard time following this. Are you saying if you are carrying a personal owned weapon you haven't qualified with you are not acting as a LEO? Are you allowed to enforce laws of the US off duty? |
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MY UNTESTED THEORY IS THIS .... To a degree ANYONE can enforce US laws, under Citizens/Private Person Arrest. Joe Citizen with personal CCW Permit/gun can act with no authority to intervene and stop a robbery. Off Duty Fed with personal CCW permit/gun can (IN THEORY) act as a private citizen (no authority/ no creds on person) and attempt to stop a robbery. Also should NOT ID self as LEO. Off Duty FED with G-gun/badge/creds/authority are told to NOT INTERVENE in robbery, and be a good witness. the agency bounds its off duty officers for liability reasons and because feds hold NO PEACE OFFICER POWERS to enforce state laws(neither does joe citizen) . also you can not carry your personal weapon when carrying govt creds. |
Isn't a thrill to be like that? I'm in my 40's and can swim forever. A statute mile, a nautical mile, 2600 yards, not a problem ..... but those I teach scuba who half my age are huffing and puffing at just 200 yards, often even far less than that. ______________________________________ ("Whoever they are, they are as fast in the water as they are on land."--Fed observing Darrien Lambert pursue his prey, (w,stte), "TimeTrax") |
Not all entirely true. Some FED K9s in AZ are cross designated. |
Many fed agencies allow the carry of approved personal firearms, on and off duty. There are also feds who are granted peace officer status on a local level as well. Depends on locale, agency etc. I am not familiar with CBP policy, so I am trying to figure it out. It's hard to separate yourself from your official capacity off duty. Will the jury see you on the stand as 'joe citizen' just because you left your creds and gov't gun at home? I am trying to figure out an agency saying 'not' to act to prevent a commission of a crime, especially a felony. Of course there are time when it is prudent to be a good witness based on the circumstances, family present etc. |
It depends what state you're in. As a CBP Officer in NYS, I am also a peace officer. However, I talked to a fellow officer who transferred from SFO, and he was not designated a peace officer by the state of CA. Now, I can't pull people over for speeding, but I can arrest for felonies committed in my sight.
Do you mean "when in uniform?" When I'm in Uniform and on the clock, I cannot carry a personal firearm. It has to the agency issued weapon, However, when off duty and in plain clothes, I still carry my badge and creds in my pocket. Only then can I carry my personal firearm concealed. |
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I should of mentioned that this would be based on CA laws VS CBP/DHS rules. CA does not (AFAIK) recognize most fed officers as peace officers, or its very limited. BUT if CBP officer were to take the CA POST test what would he be??? TRUE -- Some states recognize feds as peace officers, most dont, and some have limited powers. I was mostly talking about DHS/CBP rules for personal weapons. the only DHS agency that i know for sure of that allows APPROVED personal weapons on/off duty is ICE. The weapon is purchased BY YOU THROUGH THEM, then it is registered/tested by them, then you qualify with it. Some guns are ruled as off duty carry only. Most under DHS do not have weapon choices, they may even remove this from ICE. what the FBI, CIA, DEA, DOJ etc allows its people to carry is unknown to me. how will the jury see you if you left the G-gun/creds at home and used a personal CCW to defend yourself??? Dont Know, thats why i originally stated that this is THEORY. But if your state doesnt recognize you as a peace officer then, in theory, you are joe citizen with a CCW permit. what does CBP/DHS think about you carrying a personal CCW off duty and leaving the g-creds and gun at home and something happened? how will they view your authority? Dont Know, they probably dont either, until it happens. maybe as joe citizen with no peace officer powers(depending on state). No badge/creds/G-gun may mean not a problem for the agency, liability speaking. what does CBP/DHS think about carrying G-creds + CCW permit with a CCW gun which is NOT Approved by them? dont know, my thought is they would frown on it, they COULD see you in violation of agency policy. I may have to email someone in regards to the issue of G-creds/authority and peace officer powers and state CCW permits and how they play into each other. |
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In AZ you can carry wide open. I always have my creds with me. Carrying or not... Personal weapon, with creds... no big deal. If shit hits the fan, CBP will not back you with your personal weapon. Unless they have authorized you to use it on duty also... But if you are joe citizen, CBP aint gonna back you either... The point is that you are on your own with your own gun. But I would assume that the person carrying his own piece is not going to be a dumbass and shoot shit up for no reason. If some stuff goes down, and lethal force is needed, and you have the means to protect yourself, family or other citizens, and its a good shoot, why worry? Unless you have some crack pot legal system where you are from. Rather be judged by 12 than carried to the grave by 6. |
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My thought is that personal weapon with creds COULD be an issue, and of course CBP/DHS will not back you with a personal CCW, but you would in theory no longer be bound by their policy of "for self defense and LEO backup ONLY", you could intervene in a robbery and not just be a witness. off duty with G-gun/cred = bound by policy, backed by agency lawyers off duty with personal CCW = in theory no agency policy, more ability to intervene, on your own in court my apologies to Ziti for hijacking his thread, and good luck in FLETC. |
Remember those slow people out in town. They are your role players and will hand you your ass if you get lazy and/or underestimate them. <--- Grew up outside the front gate and former role player. Seriously Ziti, We have a few guys from B-wick in the GA HTF. Drop by and let us know if you need anything. |
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Yeah ^ what he said. Role players seem to go a little overboard if given the chance. When we were doing felony stops one pulled a billy club on me. Took him down hard. Really hard! Instructors agreed it was very justified. The role player started crying like a little U-NO-WHAT. Saying that was way too much force.. Hell, it was only an arm bar and a little face plant in the dirt....but it was a hard face plant. So just be ready for the over the top role player. |
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Ziti...pack the water, and when bugs get bad a little DEET goes a long way (just watch out, it can melt your plastic id's)-especially on some of the outdoor ranges. The gnats can practically drink that skin so soft crap... Believe it or not, suntan oil stops them cold...sort of like a tar pit. Benes are you smell like a pinapple and helping your skin...downies? a hundred gnat corpses at the end of the day  There food USED to be palatible. It is now total crap, prisoners would laugh at it. Went to lunch everyday at Zaxby's (near the mall). Find it. Love it. Chicken sammiches grilled and made to order, good price, delicious. Don't screw up on base. Enjoy the ghey bar and revel in the 50 guys (40 of them BP) scamming on one girl. Go to kareoke night-at least once. Don't let the locals screw you up. The cops hate you, the women might date you-but you need to be cautious all around. Go to the beach every weekend, with friends and beer, and play good music. You'll find a lot of friendly locals out there. Be wary of down town, a lot of bad elements looking to mix it up with the feds. FWIW, ICE is authorized several weapons with no distinction as "primary" or "backup" (U.S. Customs used to have a distinction, ICE no more). These weapons are only purchased on letterhead if an LEO price is desired, and run the gamut of SIG .40 S&W 229's DAO or DA/SA, Glock 26's in 9mm, and H&K 2000 Subcompacts as well as a tremendous amount of varied S&W 5 shot snubs. They must be inspected by a local armorer and approved by the FI and SAC. Good luck! |
Nope..July 23rd is grad day..travel on the 24th. I am immune to the water now. I eat 3 chicken breasts a day, stay out of the uselss main line. St. Simmons beach aint that bad. I love shooting gov't ammo. I am relaxed with the role players (not nervious about them, I have fun with it). I have lost about 10 lbs of bad weight but packing on more muscle than ever...shooting for a 325lbs bench on the PEB when I leave and a 1.5 mile time somewhere sub 10min. We are at the G on thursday nights for trivia and free beer, we usually have our tests on thursdays so its a good vent. We are loosing a coordinator due to a job in DC, gained another. I miss my wife and kids and my dog. I speak to them 2x a day. I was home for memorial day weekend so that was good. I turned 35 on the 30th....No on out PT's me in my section....that is my motivation. |
My friend is a CBP Officer and i'm 100% sure they are not allowed BUG's. Gotta carry their gun in an approved holster with your creds if you want to be covered. Under their policy you can only get involved (and be covered) if it involves you or another LEO. My other friends who are Special Agents with other agencies have MUCH more liberal carry and "getting involved" policies... |
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Sooo...why utilize CCW when you can carry with creds? I might have missed something, but I generally think you're covered with a duty firearm and creds "if you see a felony with possible loss of life,serious injury etc etc etc..." occuring and you intervene--or if you're threatened... BTW, I'm stationed at FLETC (NCIS CRFO) over on Keifer circle.. |
My buddy with CBP said that he would NOT be covered unless he was the victim or had to aid a LEO. Crazy but true...they have a pretty restrictive policy. They apparently don't want their folks intervening in stuff like that.... |
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CBP is not allowed back up guns, and their "off-duty" carry more restrictive, hence many CCW'ing to avoid their policies. There was a time not too long ago where CBP were NOT sanctioned to carry off duty, though their credentials "legally" allowed it-but was restricted by policy. Good luck Ziti, don't forget to try Zaxbys for lunch
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