Posted: 3/12/2008 6:42:44 AM EDT
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I want to get certified as a carbine rifle instructor. Smith & Wesson has a 5 day course but it is $965 and my Department thinks that is a bit much. Does Colt offer such a course? Any information would be appreciated. Andy |
| I think they do but it probably cost the same or more. Check S.A.W's site for training. I got certified through POST in Utah when I was an officer there. Check and see if POST in MA has a course then it is way cheeper and you can use department ammo to take with ya. |
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Andy, as suggested, you should check with MPTC or the academy closest to you. I have a friend who is an MPTC Firearms Instructor and he has to go thru re-cert on each discipline (handgun, carbine, shotgun). It should be a lot cheaper as the taxpayer picks up most of the tab. Otherwise, training these days goes ~$200/day for top-notch trainers, so the S&W deal is excellent for 5 days . . . just a lot more than the average department is willing to invest in firearms training! 
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That is the problem, Department doesn't want to shell out the dough. |
How well I know! One of my gun clubs was supposed to be used by a local PD for training. They booked 4 days . . . but they just canceled due to cost of ammo and OT. So their troops won't get the training they need due to $$. My buddy that I referenced above is a real gun nut  and wanted the certifications. His PD refused to sponsor him (e.g. pay him to go on the clock) so he has to take vacation days to get his initial certification and to keep it up. That's demoralizing to the troops . . . if you have someone interested in a specialty that you have use for, you should do everything in your power (as an administrator) to give that person the tools and responsibility. They will do a bang-up job for you in return and it boosts morale.Bean counters can't see beyond their noses! |
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I have been eyeing this one since it is close to home in nearby Hartford CT www.centermassinc.com/files/31857155.pdf |
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We host our own closed schools for the NRA here and the price is very reasonable at $525 per course. Since the NRA is a non-profit they offer courses for much less. Don't see why your dept wouldn't accept the NRA, they are one of the largest organizations training LE. Also as a certified NRA instructor and NRA member, you get insurance coverage for liability and they will stand behind you in court with attorneys if you are in line with their instructional material. You also get an automatic $25K or something like that in life insurance as an LE member for nothing extra. www.nrahq.org/law/training/instructorschools.asp#PatRfl I have also attended the FBI and NTOA schools and would recomend them also. I suggest these schools as they are widely known and accepted by the LE community and courts. I am not saying that other schools are not great schools as there are many very very good ones out there. Ideally I would like to keep one of my active certifications from one of these 3. Here is an NTOA course for $645. ntoa.org/training_calender.php |
"Accept their credentials"???? Um, I'm willing to bet the vast majority of LEO firearms instructors across the country have certifications through the NRA LEO courses. |
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agentile, I see that you are in MA, at this time we do not have anything scheduled in your state. We have been conversing with a few agencies in CT and PA to do a course if either of those would be close enough. If we find a hosting agency in MA we will make a course happen there. We offer several course options. Our most popular course is a 5-day Instructor & Armorer Course that we do all over the country. It is our belief that Instructors should also be Armorers, we find it helps to know the weapon system that you are teaching on from the inside out. In our 5-day course the first 2-days are spent in the classroom going through a full Armorer Certification. The next 3-days are spent on the range with very little down time, as we believe that we as Cops learn by doing, so when we are on the range we work hard and cover lots of ground. Here is a basic overview: AR15/M16 Armoring (Day 1-2): History of the Weapon Cycles of Function General Disassembly & Assembly Identification of Common Problems and Parts Nomenclature Identification of Group Components Semi, Burst, and Full Auto Parts and Conversions Complete Armoring Disassembly / Assembly Barrel Replacement Cleaning and Maintenance Sight and Distance Considerations Ballistic Issues Barrel Twist, Length, and Choices Gas System Parts Interchangability, including Brands Headspace Firing Pin Protrusion Trigger Jobs Chamber Inspection and Polishing Accessories and Customizing Tool Options and Selection Iron Sights Disassembly/Reassembly SopMod & Accessories Optics Etc The Instructor portion covers (Day 3-5): Patrol and Tactical Employment Considerations Sling usage Shooting Positions Sight and Distance Considerations Position Shooting Moving and Multiple Targets Transition Drills Malfunctions Reloads Firearms Safety Qualification Training Course and Test Instructional Guidelines Rapid Deployment Employment From & Around Vehicles Team Concepts Teaching Fundamentals Working with Problem Shooters Policy & Procedural Issues Ballistic Issues Maintenance Setting Up Rifle Programs 360-degree engagements Distance Engagements (100-300yds range permitting). 2-man tactics 2-4 man building clearing Fighting around vehicles, Low Light Tactics and Applications CQB. Cost: 2 day Armorer $350 3 day Instructor (Range Only) $450 5 day Instructor & Armorer Combined $600 CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com |
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[The below is basically for the benefit of our non-MA readership.] MA LE training is run by MPTC and all LE recognized firearms courses are approved (or not) by the Mass Chiefs of Police Assn (all desk jockeys). They don't recognize anyone else's courses and they would rather all be water-boarded than accept anything sponsored by the NRA! This is all strictly political (anti-gun, even for LEOs) rather than based on merits of the training/trainer. NRA's LE Training Division runs courses, but I don't recall ever seeing one in MA. The above seems to be the reason for that. I worked with a consultant (he was paid by grant money from Feds/State) on a proposal to totally revamp all LE training in MA last year. The report (which only briefly touched on firearms training . . . the consultant told me that details of firearms training belonged in the next level implementation plans, if that ever were to come to pass) is now safely collecting dust on shelves all over the state. It would need legislation and funding to go the next step. MCOPA will never relinquish their total control of the academies and thus training here is woefully inadequate when it comes to firearms training (IMNSHO). If this situation were different in MA I would have a few other suggestions (local training that could be brought to MA by internationally recognized trainers) for the OP, but although the trainers are POST certified in numerous states, MA would never recognize their status and thus the OP would have a tough time convincing his brass to support such training and expenses. |
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Worth pointing out . . . - With Prop 2-1/2, going back 20+ years (IIRC) the cities/towns are restricted to RE Tax increases within that 2.5%/year (which won't even cover fuel/heat costs these days), almost all out-of-state travel for training was killed off. - In our town it takes the chief begging the selectmen and perhaps the finance commission to get the approval. Needless to say, it is done only very rarely and usually only for top brass to attend things like the FBI Academy. So, if they are reluctant to spend $6-700 for training, no way they will pay that or more for travel/hotel expenses to have an officer attend a class of any kind. Agentile can feel free to correct me if my statements don't apply in his case. |
Can I sleep on your couch? 
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Sure, but the daily commute would be a bitch. |