Posted: 10/12/2007 9:33:00 PM EDT
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I am curious as to everyone's personal views on Professional Courtesy. I got into a big discussion/verbal brawl over the issue of professional courtesy with a few of the other rookies... They were talking about if they stopped another officer for DUI, that they would probably just follow him home. I had to open my mouth and say "I'd arrest his ass, he's no better than anyone else." Personally, I feel that just because we wear that badge, it shouldn't give us any liberties over ali baba the ragman... If anyone should know better than to break the law, it should be us, correct?? Speeding, thats another issue in itself, granted we speed in our cruisers on a daily basis, which involuntarily leads over to driving POV's, but how fast is too fast?? They said I would be steppin on too many toes if I started arresting cops for stuff like DUI or domestic violence... So let's hear it arfcom brothers in blue, what say ye?? ETA: BTW, they are in no way influencing my decisions to arrest/cite/warn, I'm just curious as to how other officers look at it |
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I'll be the first to confess that I don't sue other attorneys and generally turn down work from people who have had problems with their last attorney, especially if I know him well, however one wonders how many times query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9506EEDC123FF93AA15750C0A9639C8B63 former Chief Thompson was followed home with a wink and a nod. 
If you wink and nod another officer out of a DWI and he runs someone over, or even plows into a traffic sign and there is record of your stop I think you'd be in some pretty hot soup. I confess to being a bit of a good ole boy, but that's a big risk to take for someone else. |
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I give professional courtesy pretty much every day. As one tax paying citizen to another. Under NO circumstance would I let ANYONE drive away after I determine that they are impaired. I've let them call someone to pick them up, or pay for a tow truck to take them, and their car, home. There are factors involved in the decision, like previous arrests for DWI, or if the driver is a jerk. What you do for a living doesn't really make any difference to me. I would probably stick my neck out by extending courtesy more for active duty military, than anyone else. So what is that, the thin GREEN line, or is it the Desert TAN line? 
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I know my viewpoint on this, like someone else mentioned in this thread, professional courtesy is for minor misdemeanors, not DUI's. If my original post was read correctly, you would see that I voiced my thoughts, and actually made note that what those guys said wouldn't affect my position. I have worked too many DUI fatalities on the Fire/EMS side to just let people off with a warning and following them home... Now if the guy is respectful throughout the stop, I MIGHT, repeat MIGHT call a ride and tow the vehicle, but that will most likely be very rare... I spoke with a CO friend of mine, and she said that during a dept meeting the sheriff asked his road deputies if they stopped him and he was DUI, what would they do. One person said they'd take him home or get him a ride, and the sheriff told him he wouldn't have a job. Another of the deputies said he'd arrest him, and the sheriff told him that's what he wanted to hear... |
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My personal view is that as a profession, we need to change the meaning of 'professional courtesy'. It shouldn't be a matter of what violations or conduct a working cop is willing to let slide for an off-duty cop. It should be a matter of what violations or conduct an off-duty cop is not willing to commit in the presence of a working cop. In other words, for me, professional courtesy is not placing an on-duty cop in the position where he has to make an enforcement decision involving me. If you don't want to receive a ticket or get arrested, have enough 'professional courtesy' to not commit the violation in the first place. Just one opinion. YMMV. |
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It's pretty self-centered to try to take advantage of that "brotherhood," and lay some kind of guilt-trip on another officer, just because he's unwilling to endanger his career to cut you a break. This goes double for something serious like a DUI. Speeding tickets are one thing, but in the case of a more serious offense, you're out of line if you whip out "Master Badge" like it's some kind of credit card. Attempting to pressure that other officer into endangering his own career for the sake of your stupid decision isn't really an honorable move. If you're going to self-destruct, at least have the courtesy to do it alone. |
| It's a matter of the choices you make. Discretion is a wonderful part of my job, but I would use it very judiciously. If an officer is speeding, I can overlook a speeding violation. If an officer was involved in a crash, maybe due to icy roads, I can overlook a misdemeanor inattentive driving cite. But as soon as you drink and drive, or hit your spouse, you make a choice beyond simple violations of traffic/criminal code. I don't want to argue about the dangers of speed, or speed too fast for the conditions at hand. I think when a person goes beyond simple violations of the code then the professional courtesy shouldn't be extended to that officer. I give the citizens the same benefit of the doubt in those certain situations as well. |
What's your dept policy say? |
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In IL I am only required to arrest in one situation, domestic violence, providing there is proof that a battery occurred. I wouldn't cut a brother a break that I haven't cut for Joe Citizen. People make judgment errors and those errors don't always warrant an arrest. It all depends on the situation, the severity of the crime and the attitude and wishes of the "victim(s)". I have discretion and until my discretion is taken away I will continue to use it in every situation I encounter. |
Well said. Many folks think that the power of ARREST is the most important power LEO's have. I personally think that the power of DISCRETION is more important and requires more thought and insight. Like pointed out above, I cut slack to folks every day for minor violations... cops included. However, if/when a cops goes too far, it's not my position to give him/her a free pass just because they work in LE. Our policy encourages/requires arrests in the following when PC exists: Domestic Violence Incidents Narcotics Violations DUI's All of us are bound to obey the laws we enforce... no excuses. |
+1000 I have said this same thing many times over. Joe |
No officer likes to have to arrest another officer, but the issues in red are no brainers. We've had more than a few of these two incidents arise in my AO the last few years & those officers have gone to the county jail in steel bracelets while riding in the back of caged units just like their civilian counterparts would. It sucks & the arrests weren't made to make an "example" for the media to play up. The arrests were made because PC existed & no favor was extended. Dept punishment was later handed out & fortunately those offending cops are no longer with the dept. Human nature & the potential to err per our nature aside. |
That Sheriff sounds GTG to me. On the topic of domestic violence, well, O.C.G.A. 19-13-1 is pretty clear. There are no shades of grey in our state in regards to that matter. If an officer is in violation of that statute he takes the ride. The repercussions for not doing so are substantial to both the department and the officer that did nothing when a victim was getting battered. |
| Theres a lot of "ifs" there. How drunk, armed, do I know him and what type of drinker he is, where is this and whos around, what time of day. Is he being a jack ass. Either way he wouldn't be driving home. If he's not totally trashed, and is compliant maybe he would get a break if he made me beilieve this was a one time deal. I'm not willing to lose my job over an idiot who is just going to do it again next week. It's not that I don't think the guy would deserve it, but unlike most people, a cops carrier is over after that. Everyone makes mistakes, I have a hard time doing that to someone (yes I know they did it to them selves). And thats not to say I would only do it for a cop either. But fortunately I haven't been in that situation yet. |
And a very responsible opinion. Thank you. |
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I never thought I would quote our training Capt. but here goes. "You have entered into a pedastal profession. That means that others will look to you and your action at ALL times. Fair or not, you volounteered for it...." Now I had my personal feelings on this before this particular speech, and his words pretty much echoed my own thoughts. Yes, I am a guilty as any other of speeding and various other minor traffic infractions from time to time, and I have caught a break on a speeding ticket as a result of my position. But what our Capt. was getting at is that with our elevated level of authority, comes elevated responsibilty. That to me means that the rules we live by, the standards we hold ourselves to, should be higher than those we would hold others to, not more lax. I kind of feel like if a fellow officer chose to put himself in a position to be arrested for DUI, then he made his choice, which means mine is made for me. Depending on the situation I may very well offer a ride, or a phone to call one, but I just don't know. I haven't found myself in that situation yet, and honestly I hope I never do. |
| From some of the posts maybe this forum should change the name "brothers" of the shield to something more "professional". I agree there are limits but many situations can be resolved with some discretion...ie: I've chosen not to arrest strangers for DUI so why arrest my "brother" who risks his life for me; there are options. Self centered egos are killing the "brotherhood" and the profession is suffering because of it. One too many officer survival classes are being replaced with ethics classes. |
Sorry to call you out bro, but frankly your attitude about this bothers me. You're not any better than anyone else. None of us are. Attitudes like yours are what's killing the "brotherhood", not attitudes like mine. Try applying this standard to any given arrest/incident.... Would you be willing to explain your actions honestly and in detail to a packed press conference? If not, then you're probably not doing the right thing. |
+1000. Not to be antagonistic, but for me to add that we're all human & prone to mistakes would be trite. However, we all know we are held to a higher standard as officers & on my dept at least, that's expected to hold true. It's a no brainer that OWI is a highly avoidable error for ANYONE, especially LEO's. It's a little arrogant to say that one officer should put on his or her blinders to an officer OWI because that officer exercises poor descretion to begin with. |
Agree to disagree. Don't sell yourself short; sacrificing your life to save another makes you unique, maybe even better than the average Joe. Forgive me if that makes me think of alternatives to arrest. I would rather help a brother not punish a brother. Help doesn't mean ignoring the issue either, it just means a taking a different course of action...sometimes that's harder than locking someone up (see recidivism rates to show how well the court "helps" people. I hope you don't think our salvation is in their hands). |
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It's a Brotherhood. If you've been drinking and need a ride call me and you're home safe. If you drive, wreck, and then jump & run there is NOTHING I can do for you. If you need a place to stay because you're not getting along with your spouse I've got a spare room. If you pistol whip 'em there is NOTHING I can do for you. If you sell/use drugs, hang out with thugs you grew up with, mess w/kids on the computer, have sex with prostitutes on the job, call people to warn them the Teams dressing out, or any of the other despicable things officers from my Department have been fired/arrested for then I have no use for you. You are NOT my Brother. If your choices and actions force me to arrest my "Brother" then who has betrayed the Brotherhood? We all volunteered for a profession that is held to a higher standard than those we swore to protect. It is what it is and we knew the deal when we signed up. When one of us betrays the public trust the rest of us pay the price, so don't expect anyone to look the other way. |