Posted: 2/25/2014 6:59:36 PM EDT
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I'm a 40-something computer nerd stuck in a dead-end job. I hate it and would love to do something else but I'm admittedly a whore to the money. However, I have a long-dormant fascination with and interest in becoming an EMT. I first attempted while I was still in the Navy about 20 years ago. Unfortunately our ship was at sea so much I couldn't even get into the First Responder course as a pre-req. So the desire has been there for a long time.
I do a lot of trail work and I'm very active with the Florida Trail Association. Since I lead group hikes (primarily work hikes with mowers, chainsaws, etc) I felt it was important to have some FA training in case something goes wrong. I just renewed my Wilderness FA last year. For those that don't know, WFA is basic FA with a mindset of extended care. The training is centered around maintaining the patient(s) for extended periods (possibly days) until an evac can be made. I wouldn't call it advanced but I'd say it's more detailed than your standard urban course where help is a phone call away. I would like to do one of two things. I would like to either upgrade WFT to Wilderness First Responder or go whole hog and get W-EMT. WFR is a 9-10 day course (80 hours) and will cost me about $600-$700. Today I found a school doing EMT night school for about $1800 and 3 months. I'm not looking to make a career change since, as I said, I'm a whore to the money. However, I can see the benefit of having both the knowledge and the marketable skillset of an EMT should something happen with my job (I'm not interested in being a developer if I lose my current job). My primary goal is to further my capabilities in the wilderness setting which would most likely be accomplished through WFR. However, it wouldn't provide me any potential job opportunities per se. So on one hand I can set a more easily attainable goal, burn a weeks' worth of vacation, and be done in a short period. Or I can really apply myself (possibly over-extending) for two nights and a Sat every week for several months for something that, assuming I pass the exams, may provide other opportunities. One benefit to the EMT schedule is that it would mostly be through the summer when I don't have any trail work to conflict with it. Of course it might be an issue for a vacation when the kiddo is out of school. One thing I've always enjoyed is teaching. I'd love to teach WFA/WFR so being an EMT would certainly lend more credibility to me. Just curious what you guys might think. I haven't discussed it with the family yet so that may change things but I figured it can't hurt to brainstorm. Is it worth it at this age? Would you do it again? Also, something I heard once is that an EMT needs to be sponsored by some agency. Not sure if that's true or not. If true then that probably settles it for me since I doubt any agency would sponsor some random schmuck off the street. Thanks! |
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I can see the benefit of having both the knowledge and the marketable skillset of an EMT In most places your EMT training must be renewed regularly, like 1x/year. Also, EMTs don't make a lot of money... iirc, some whatmore than security guards. Not everyone gets to work with the fire department. Lots go to work for ambulance companies; they are the low-paid guys. |
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In most places your EMT training must be renewed regularly, like 1x/year. Also, EMTs don't make a lot of money... iirc, some whatmore than security guards. Not everyone gets to work with the fire department. Lots go to work for ambulance companies; they are the low-paid guys. Quoted:
I can see the benefit of having both the knowledge and the marketable skillset of an EMT In most places your EMT training must be renewed regularly, like 1x/year. Also, EMTs don't make a lot of money... iirc, some whatmore than security guards. Not everyone gets to work with the fire department. Lots go to work for ambulance companies; they are the low-paid guys. And then there are those that rapidly progress to the Paramedic level, become Nationally Registered, and work as overseas contract medics for well over $100K, and when they tire of that, they work as remote medics in the Oil & Gas industry making somewhat less in exchange for a two week on, two week off rotation within the states. |
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And then there are those that rapidly progress to the Paramedic level, become Nationally Registered, and work as overseas contract medics for well over $100K, and when they tire of that, they work as remote medics in the Oil & Gas industry making somewhat less in exchange for a two week on, two week off rotation within the states. Quoted:
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I can see the benefit of having both the knowledge and the marketable skillset of an EMT In most places your EMT training must be renewed regularly, like 1x/year. Also, EMTs don't make a lot of money... iirc, some whatmore than security guards. Not everyone gets to work with the fire department. Lots go to work for ambulance companies; they are the low-paid guys. And then there are those that rapidly progress to the Paramedic level, become Nationally Registered, and work as overseas contract medics for well over $100K, and when they tire of that, they work as remote medics in the Oil & Gas industry making somewhat less in exchange for a two week on, two week off rotation within the states. Damn, hadn't heard of that aspect. Sign me up! |
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Damn, hadn't heard of that aspect. Sign me up! Quoted:
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I can see the benefit of having both the knowledge and the marketable skillset of an EMT In most places your EMT training must be renewed regularly, like 1x/year. Also, EMTs don't make a lot of money... iirc, some whatmore than security guards. Not everyone gets to work with the fire department. Lots go to work for ambulance companies; they are the low-paid guys. And then there are those that rapidly progress to the Paramedic level, become Nationally Registered, and work as overseas contract medics for well over $100K, and when they tire of that, they work as remote medics in the Oil & Gas industry making somewhat less in exchange for a two week on, two week off rotation within the states. Damn, hadn't heard of that aspect. Sign me up! I'll be in either Hobbs or Odessa later this week. Not specifically looking for medics this trip, but I'm always on the lookout for solid paramedics wanting to get in on the oilfield. |
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Damn, hadn't heard of that aspect. Sign me up! Quoted:
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I can see the benefit of having both the knowledge and the marketable skillset of an EMT In most places your EMT training must be renewed regularly, like 1x/year. Also, EMTs don't make a lot of money... iirc, some whatmore than security guards. Not everyone gets to work with the fire department. Lots go to work for ambulance companies; they are the low-paid guys. And then there are those that rapidly progress to the Paramedic level, become Nationally Registered, and work as overseas contract medics for well over $100K, and when they tire of that, they work as remote medics in the Oil & Gas industry making somewhat less in exchange for a two week on, two week off rotation within the states. Damn, hadn't heard of that aspect. Sign me up! one of the retired SEALs with the CIA/EMBASSY that was killed in Benghazi, was an RN as well...I am sure that skill set bumped the pay too. |
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I've never heard of annual renewal, unless he's talking about wilderness EMT, which I don't know anything about. Most EMS certs (Basic, Intermediate, Paramedic) are 3 year certs, 2 years if held at the National Registry level. National Registry is resumé fluff - looks good but does not translate to local policy and you're basically paying for the title.
Seems to me that Wilderness EMT is an extremely narrow niche. If you want something that will broaden your marketable skillset you would have to get an ALS cert; start with EMT-B and move on to EMT-I and Paramedic. That's a crap ton of schooling and tuition, though. It's possible to get to an ALS level through volunteering at a local FD/EMS agency (I did), but those that are willing to invest that much in you are likely to require you to sign a contract stating you'll volunteer X hours for Y years, or refund them Z dollars of tuition. |
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I did my EMT (and Paramedic) school at the local community college. So long as you could meet the pre-reqs (lol), and pay the money, it didn't matter who you were. They had both day and night classes for EMT. In Texas, certification is renewed every 4 years, National Registry is every 2 years. Texas uses NR for initial certification, meaning you have to pass the NREMT test for whatever level you are going for in order to get the state certification. After that, you can let it lapse. I keep mine up because its pretty much mandatory if you want to teach, or work in another state that recognizes it. I'm not a huge fan of NR, but that is the way its going many places. The wilderness EMT certifications aren't recognized at the state level anywhere as far as I know, but since you want it more for personal knowledge and use rather than for a job, thats pretty much irrelevant to you. However, an EMT certification would also be beneficial, and you would get to see how EMS operates in the real world as well as skills more directly applicable to things you run into off the trail. |
| You could always volley at a rescue squad. They will probably pay for EMT class for you. I've been a medic for a few years now and was an EMT-b for a good while. It's rewarding. I think it would be a more worthwhile venture if you actually use it. Some good to have experience and skills even if you don't use it. |
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I've never heard of annual renewal, unless he's talking about wilderness EMT, which I don't know anything about. Most EMS certs (Basic, Intermediate, Paramedic) are 3 year certs, 2 years if held at the National Registry level. National Registry is resumé fluff - looks good but does not translate to local policy and you're basically paying for the title. Quoted:
I've never heard of annual renewal, unless he's talking about wilderness EMT, which I don't know anything about. Most EMS certs (Basic, Intermediate, Paramedic) are 3 year certs, 2 years if held at the National Registry level. National Registry is resumé fluff - looks good but does not translate to local policy and you're basically paying for the title. Yeah, my WFA is good for 2 yrs. Thanks for the heads up about the NR. I was thinking that was more important than it is I guess. Seems to me that Wilderness EMT is an extremely narrow niche. If you want something that will broaden your marketable skillset you would have to get an ALS cert; start with EMT-B and move on to EMT-I and Paramedic. That's a crap ton of schooling and tuition, though. It's possible to get to an ALS level through volunteering at a local FD/EMS agency (I did), but those that are willing to invest that much in you are likely to require you to sign a contract stating you'll volunteer X hours for Y years, or refund them Z dollars of tuition. Well, WEMT is really EMT-B with some additional stuff thrown in. Here's the course desc. It's called 3+1 for three weeks of EMT-B and one week for Wilderness Upgrade for Medical Professionals. The first three weeks of the experience is focused on EMT-Basic training, with an immersion into urban care. You will complete 12+hours of clinical time on an ambulance and/or in an emergency room setting, and be eligible for both the NC OEMS exam and the National Registry of EMTs exam at course end. At the end of the EMT experience, tack on the WMI Wilderness Upgrade for Medical Professionals to receive your WEMT certification. Quoted:
See if employer will foot the bill/time (The Florida Trail Association) or join somewhere like a SAR team and maybe they will pay for it. And you can use your skills to help people. The USFS is our managing partner and they footed the bill for my WFA. I'll see if they'll upgrade me to WFR. I'm not sure they'd go for EMT. Unfortunately our manager retired and I'm not sure if the interim (his assistant) can push it forward. They were actually going to cover my instructor cert until they decided to outsource to a training company so it might be feasible to ask for an upgrade. Unfortunately it's tied to Federal dollars so who knows at this point. Zoot, thanks. I'll look into Florida's specific requirements. I'll bounce this off a friend of mine also. He's a Captain with one of the local depts here. I'm sure he can give me the full scoop on what our state requirements are. Makes sense to keep up with NR also like you said. FF, I don't think that's an option anymore. When I looked into it 20 years ago it was. We have several beach communities where I live. At the time most used volunteers. Now two of them contract with the major city for fire. There's only one left with an auxiliary branch. Unfortunately you can't just be an EMT. You have to be a full-fledged firefighter and I don't think I'm in a position to make that kind of a time commitment for the firefighter training which is considerably longer. |
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Yeah, my WFA is good for 2 yrs. Thanks for the heads up about the NR. I was thinking that was more important than it is I guess. Well, WEMT is really EMT-B with some additional stuff thrown in. Here's the course desc. It's called 3+1 for three weeks of EMT-B and one week for Wilderness Upgrade for Medical Professionals. The first three weeks of the experience is focused on EMT-Basic training, with an immersion into urban care. You will complete 12+hours of clinical time on an ambulance and/or in an emergency room setting, and be eligible for both the NC OEMS exam and the National Registry of EMTs exam at course end. At the end of the EMT experience, tack on the WMI Wilderness Upgrade for Medical Professionals to receive your WEMT certification. The USFS is our managing partner and they footed the bill for my WFA. I'll see if they'll upgrade me to WFR. I'm not sure they'd go for EMT. Unfortunately our manager retired and I'm not sure if the interim (his assistant) can push it forward. They were actually going to cover my instructor cert until they decided to outsource to a training company so it might be feasible to ask for an upgrade. Unfortunately it's tied to Federal dollars so who knows at this point. Zoot, thanks. I'll look into Florida's specific requirements. I'll bounce this off a friend of mine also. He's a Captain with one of the local depts here. I'm sure he can give me the full scoop on what our state requirements are. Makes sense to keep up with NR also like you said. FF, I don't think that's an option anymore. When I looked into it 20 years ago it was. We have several beach communities where I live. At the time most used volunteers. Now two of them contract with the major city for fire. There's only one left with an auxiliary branch. Unfortunately you can't just be an EMT. You have to be a full-fledged firefighter and I don't think I'm in a position to make that kind of a time commitment for the firefighter training which is considerably longer. Quoted:
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I've never heard of annual renewal, unless he's talking about wilderness EMT, which I don't know anything about. Most EMS certs (Basic, Intermediate, Paramedic) are 3 year certs, 2 years if held at the National Registry level. National Registry is resumé fluff - looks good but does not translate to local policy and you're basically paying for the title. Yeah, my WFA is good for 2 yrs. Thanks for the heads up about the NR. I was thinking that was more important than it is I guess. Seems to me that Wilderness EMT is an extremely narrow niche. If you want something that will broaden your marketable skillset you would have to get an ALS cert; start with EMT-B and move on to EMT-I and Paramedic. That's a crap ton of schooling and tuition, though. It's possible to get to an ALS level through volunteering at a local FD/EMS agency (I did), but those that are willing to invest that much in you are likely to require you to sign a contract stating you'll volunteer X hours for Y years, or refund them Z dollars of tuition. Well, WEMT is really EMT-B with some additional stuff thrown in. Here's the course desc. It's called 3+1 for three weeks of EMT-B and one week for Wilderness Upgrade for Medical Professionals. The first three weeks of the experience is focused on EMT-Basic training, with an immersion into urban care. You will complete 12+hours of clinical time on an ambulance and/or in an emergency room setting, and be eligible for both the NC OEMS exam and the National Registry of EMTs exam at course end. At the end of the EMT experience, tack on the WMI Wilderness Upgrade for Medical Professionals to receive your WEMT certification. Quoted:
See if employer will foot the bill/time (The Florida Trail Association) or join somewhere like a SAR team and maybe they will pay for it. And you can use your skills to help people. The USFS is our managing partner and they footed the bill for my WFA. I'll see if they'll upgrade me to WFR. I'm not sure they'd go for EMT. Unfortunately our manager retired and I'm not sure if the interim (his assistant) can push it forward. They were actually going to cover my instructor cert until they decided to outsource to a training company so it might be feasible to ask for an upgrade. Unfortunately it's tied to Federal dollars so who knows at this point. Zoot, thanks. I'll look into Florida's specific requirements. I'll bounce this off a friend of mine also. He's a Captain with one of the local depts here. I'm sure he can give me the full scoop on what our state requirements are. Makes sense to keep up with NR also like you said. FF, I don't think that's an option anymore. When I looked into it 20 years ago it was. We have several beach communities where I live. At the time most used volunteers. Now two of them contract with the major city for fire. There's only one left with an auxiliary branch. Unfortunately you can't just be an EMT. You have to be a full-fledged firefighter and I don't think I'm in a position to make that kind of a time commitment for the firefighter training which is considerably longer. EMT is longer than 80 hours so I don't see how the WEMT goes above and beyond. Anyway, if you aren't currently working as an EMT in some capacity you can't renew through NREMT as you'd be classified as inactive. Inactive status with the NREMT signifies a National Certified provider who is currently not providing patient care. Often this is misunderstood. Registrants who wish to declare inactive status must continue to meet the NREMT recertification requirements. The NREMT confirms that “inactive” EMS providers are “not working.” Therefore, inactive status is useful for administrators, educators, managers, etc., but not for those who have left EMS and also failed to maintain competency via completion of the recertification education requirements. This also means you have to be employed with a recognized EMS organization. In Oklahoma you are required to maintain your status with the NREMT (except EMT-I, that's a whole different issue) so I'd double check your state requirements. OK renewal period is two years as it is tied to your national, other states obviously differ. Finally, EMT isn't a terribly marketable skill IMO. As others have said, if you move up to ALS then you're better off but maintaining your skills and the CEUs get much more involved with each level. For what you are saying I'd honestly stick with the WEMT. It sounds like that course starts out as a regular EMT class and then transitions over to things that would be more relevant to what you're wanting. I don't see the utility for regular EMT for you as you spend time covering subjects that won't be relevant to you. IMO, tailored training is ideal and should be pursued if that's an option. Why waste your time learning extrication techniques and transport-specific topics? The basics are the exact same but the situations in which you apply them are going to be entirely different. |
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EMT is longer than 80 hours so I don't see how the WEMT goes above and beyond. Anyway, if you aren't currently working as an EMT in some capacity you can't renew through NREMT as you'd be classified as inactive. Quoted:
EMT is longer than 80 hours so I don't see how the WEMT goes above and beyond. Anyway, if you aren't currently working as an EMT in some capacity you can't renew through NREMT as you'd be classified as inactive. Yeah, I didn't get that, either. The other EMT courses I've looked at are 250 hours. Inactive status with the NREMT signifies a National Certified provider who is currently not providing patient care. Often this is misunderstood. Registrants who wish to declare inactive status must continue to meet the NREMT recertification requirements. The NREMT confirms that “inactive” EMS providers are “not working.” Therefore, inactive status is useful for administrators, educators, managers, etc., but not for those who have left EMS and also failed to maintain competency via completion of the recertification education requirements. This also means you have to be employed with a recognized EMS organization. In Oklahoma you are required to maintain your status with the NREMT (except EMT-I, that's a whole different issue) so I'd double check your state requirements. OK renewal period is two years as it is tied to your national, other states obviously differ. Finally, EMT isn't a terribly marketable skill IMO. As others have said, if you move up to ALS then you're better off but maintaining your skills and the CEUs get much more involved with each level. For what you are saying I'd honestly stick with the WEMT. It sounds like that course starts out as a regular EMT class and then transitions over to things that would be more relevant to what you're wanting. I don't see the utility for regular EMT for you as you spend time covering subjects that won't be relevant to you. IMO, tailored training is ideal and should be pursued if that's an option. Why waste your time learning extrication techniques and transport-specific topics? The basics are the exact same but the situations in which you apply them are going to be entirely different. Thanks for the insight! I'll definitely check with my FD buddy on our local laws. I certainly wouldn't want to do all that just to be inactive. I think I'm leaning more towards focusing on the Wilderness First Responder. I doubt I can do the WEMT since it's a one-month commitment and there's no way I can take off work that long. It doesn't sound like stopping at EMT would gain me much, either. I only gave it consideration since I could take the regular EMT course at night and add the Wilderness portion later. I agree, though, there would probably be a lot of material that isn't geared towards my goal. I'm definitely interested in the non-urban paradigm. I really want to make sure that people I lead into the woods either for work or recreational hikes or anyone I may stumble upon will have the best option of going home alive. Thanks for the input guys! If there are any online practice sites that cover basic first aid you guys used/recommend I'm open. The only one I've found so far is http://wmiquiz.com. I'm running at 89% right now. |
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I honestly think that WFR would be a great idea, you can consider WEMT later if you so choose. You can always add more classes pertaining to specifics like diabetic emergencies or anything else you'd like to supplement with. See if your buddy will let you participate in any in-house training to keep yourself sharp.
I'd personally take a capable EMR over a paper EMT any day of the week. ETA: NREMT's EMR still has requirements for you to be attached to a rescue service, EMS agency, or healthcare facility. I didn't see anything like that for WMR besides the three day refresher course, I think it is a standalone program. That's great as you won't waste time on things that don't apply at all to you. It looks like a good program, please post an AAR if you go to the class. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Thanks. Really appreciate it. I'm hoping since my buddy is a captain and high on the chain I can do just that.
Diabetes is definitely something I want to be more aware of. I also found someplace (have to search again) that had a dedicated anaphylaxis course. So far I've never had anyone deal with that but I do carry EpiPens now just in case. Thanks again! |
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Some tips just in case you haven't heard them elsewhere:
When you buy a glucometer make sure you check the prices of the test strips, which generally have an annual expiration. The machines are usually very inexpensive but the strips can vary wildly in price. Oral glucose in a gel or paste form is better than liquid glucose or fruit juice - the liquids are easy to choke on. The tablets take too long to dissolve, imo. Definitely a good idea to get a class on anaphylaxis - don't want to go sticking the wrong kind of patient with an Epi-pen. 
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Some tips just in case you haven't heard them elsewhere: When you buy a glucometer make sure you check the prices of the test strips, which generally have an annual expiration. The machines are usually very inexpensive but the strips can vary wildly in price. Quoted:
Some tips just in case you haven't heard them elsewhere: When you buy a glucometer make sure you check the prices of the test strips, which generally have an annual expiration. The machines are usually very inexpensive but the strips can vary wildly in price. I've wondered about this. Would it make a good addition to the FAK? I think it'd be good to know for sure if you have a blood sugar issue to deal with. I did look at some of them and was surprised that they were so cheap but I didn't price the strips. My MIL and co-worker both have meters so maybe I could buy the same reader and give them any strips that are about to expire. I also thought I'd find a meter with strips available in 5 or 10 packs. Oral glucose in a gel or paste form is better than liquid glucose or fruit juice - the liquids are easy to choke on. The tablets take too long to dissolve, imo. We were told to carry one of those small tubes of cake icing. I carry chewable glucose tablets myself since I get the shakes if I go too long w/o eating. I guess it's non-diabetic hypoglycemia. Definitely a good idea to get a class on anaphylaxis - don't want to go sticking the wrong kind of patient with an Epi-pen. I just watched a cool WMS video on how to disassemble the Epipen. Believe it or not after the initial injection it's still got another dose. You can remove the carpule from the plastic housing and effectively get four doses out of a single twin-pack. That might actually be a big lifesaver figuring the epi only lasts 5-7 min which isn't really long enough for an antihistamine to kick in. Which reminds me, I need to find a liquid antihistamine. That's supposed to take about 15 min instead of pills at about 30. I think Benadryl used to have a liquid but they don't anymore. |
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I've wondered about this. Would it make a good addition to the FAK? I think it'd be good to know for sure if you have a blood sugar issue to deal with. I did look at some of them and was surprised that they were so cheap but I didn't price the strips. My MIL and co-worker both have meters so maybe I could buy the same reader and give them any strips that are about to expire. I also thought I'd find a meter with strips available in 5 or 10 packs. Quoted:
I've wondered about this. Would it make a good addition to the FAK? I think it'd be good to know for sure if you have a blood sugar issue to deal with. I did look at some of them and was surprised that they were so cheap but I didn't price the strips. My MIL and co-worker both have meters so maybe I could buy the same reader and give them any strips that are about to expire. I also thought I'd find a meter with strips available in 5 or 10 packs. Absolutely - diabetic emergencies are probably the single most common call I go on, but then I work in urban EMS. I'd like to think that someone on the trail would be more prepared. That being said, last year I was doing a piece of the AT and came across a trio of guys who were abandoning all of their gear in a shelter because one of their party had a seizure, was obviously below the therapeutic threshold of his anti-seizure med, and did not have his meds with him. They were going to try to double-time 8 miles to town before he had another seizure. Nuts. I think that's a good idea to standardize with what your friends are using - they've probably already found the more affordable product. We were told to carry one of those small tubes of cake icing. I carry chewable glucose tablets myself since I get the shakes if I go too long w/o eating. I guess it's non-diabetic hypoglycemia. Yes - those are supposed to be a fine substitute. I've used all kinds of sugary foods and drinks next to oral glucose and can say that they all work, but they're all very slow (compared to IV D50). And once you've got them woke up, of course, you've got to be able to give them something substantial like a granola bar, trail mix, or oatmeal to keep them from burning up the sugar rush and falling out again. I just watched a cool WMS video on how to disassemble the Epipen. Believe it or not after the initial injection it's still got another dose. You can remove the carpule from the plastic housing and effectively get four doses out of a single twin-pack. That might actually be a big lifesaver figuring the epi only lasts 5-7 min which isn't really long enough for an antihistamine to kick in. Which reminds me, I need to find a liquid antihistamine. That's supposed to take about 15 min instead of pills at about 30. I think Benadryl used to have a liquid but they don't anymore. I didn't know that about the Epi-pen - is it just a certain brand? Did you have to get a prescription for the Epi-pen or is that OTC where you're at? Children's Benadryl is available online in liquid form; I can't imagine there would be a problem with doubling the dose for an adult. |
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Absolutely - diabetic emergencies are probably the single most common call I go on, but then I work in urban EMS. I'd like to think that someone on the trail would be more prepared. That being said, last year I was doing a piece of the AT and came across a trio of guys who were abandoning all of their gear in a shelter because one of their party had a seizure, was obviously below the therapeutic threshold of his anti-seizure med, and did not have his meds with him. They were going to try to double-time 8 miles to town before he had another seizure. Nuts. I think that's a good idea to standardize with what your friends are using - they've probably already found the more affordable product. Quoted:
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I've wondered about this. Would it make a good addition to the FAK? I think it'd be good to know for sure if you have a blood sugar issue to deal with. I did look at some of them and was surprised that they were so cheap but I didn't price the strips. My MIL and co-worker both have meters so maybe I could buy the same reader and give them any strips that are about to expire. I also thought I'd find a meter with strips available in 5 or 10 packs. Absolutely - diabetic emergencies are probably the single most common call I go on, but then I work in urban EMS. I'd like to think that someone on the trail would be more prepared. That being said, last year I was doing a piece of the AT and came across a trio of guys who were abandoning all of their gear in a shelter because one of their party had a seizure, was obviously below the therapeutic threshold of his anti-seizure med, and did not have his meds with him. They were going to try to double-time 8 miles to town before he had another seizure. Nuts. I think that's a good idea to standardize with what your friends are using - they've probably already found the more affordable product. Wow. That's a hell of a hike when you're working with that kind of weight on your shoulder and knowing you can't take your time! I've changed our doctrine so that now all of our activity leaders ask people to put a 3x5 card in their pack with pertinent medical info. Whether they do or not who knows? I worry that while they should be prepared they might underestimate the duration or how strenuous the event is and leave stuff at home. I guess that's one of the roles of the leader in that you get to carry a bunch of stuff to make up for what others fail to bring. 
We were told to carry one of those small tubes of cake icing. I carry chewable glucose tablets myself since I get the shakes if I go too long w/o eating. I guess it's non-diabetic hypoglycemia. Yes - those are supposed to be a fine substitute. I've used all kinds of sugary foods and drinks next to oral glucose and can say that they all work, but they're all very slow (compared to IV D50). And once you've got them woke up, of course, you've got to be able to give them something substantial like a granola bar, trail mix, or oatmeal to keep them from burning up the sugar rush and falling out again.
I'm sure it varies from person to person but about how long would something like the icing take to get someone back to the point that they could take something else? My MIL isn't very good at all about following her diet (not sure about the insulin) and I know my FIL has found her more than once on or on the verge of a crash. I didn't know that about the Epi-pen - is it just a certain brand? Did you have to get a prescription for the Epi-pen or is that OTC where you're at? Children's Benadryl is available online in liquid form; I can't imagine there would be a problem with doubling the dose for an adult. The video I saw was specific to the Epi-pen from Mylan. I'm not sure about the Twinject and doubt it would be true of the Auvi-Q. Here's a link to the article. At the end of it is a link to the supplemental video. Unfortunately it is Rx-controlled. However, I explained to my dr why I wanted to carry it and he didn't balk at all. I understand that people can abuse anything but I really don't get the restriction of something like this that can have such life-saving capabilities. In my mind there should be pens in every FAK. I've heard horror stories about people in the woods having their first reaction and not having a pen because they had no idea they were allergic. Fortunately someone else in the group had one. Thanks. I'll look into the children's Benadryl. Maybe they figure adults can just pop a pill. |
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The one big reason I can think of for you to go the EMT route ($1800 for the class now??? wow) is that you can get a part time or per diem job working as an EMT. Not for the money, but for the experience. If you go the WFR or WEMT route, and then never lay your hands on a real patient for the next 8 years, how well do you think you'll remember how to perform your skills??? Will you be able to keep your own cool when everyone around you is freaking out when you have no backup and no practical experience? Only you can answer those questions.
As others have stated, most recertification is 2 or more years. In NY for example, it's 3 in most of the state. |
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Quoted:
I'll be in either Hobbs or Odessa later this week. Not specifically looking for medics this trip, but I'm always on the lookout for solid paramedics wanting to get in on the oilfield. If you don't mind my asking, what company do you work for? I've been working as an offshore paramedic for the same company for 11 years, but am thinking about a change. |
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Quoted:
If you don't mind my asking, what company do you work for? I've been working as an offshore paramedic for the same company for 11 years, but am thinking about a change. Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll be in either Hobbs or Odessa later this week. Not specifically looking for medics this trip, but I'm always on the lookout for solid paramedics wanting to get in on the oilfield. If you don't mind my asking, what company do you work for? I've been working as an offshore paramedic for the same company for 11 years, but am thinking about a change. also interested in this. I've been on a 911 truck for several years now and looking for something different. How do you break into the oil/remote medic stuff? |
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also interested in this. I've been on a 911 truck for several years now and looking for something different. How do you break into the oil/remote medic stuff? It's not too difficult to get in usually. Look for companies like Safety Management Systems (Acadian Ambulance), Pharmasafe or Medic Systems. Most want at least 2-3 years experience as a paramedic, and some are now requiring NR, where it used to be NR or any state cert. (My company requires NR for new hires, but I'm still working on a state cert) ACLS and CPR obviously, and PHTLS or ITLS are sometimes required. When I first applied, I'd been a paramedic for about 13 years, and spent 5 of those years in the Middle East before 9/11, but most people hired are coming straight from a truck background. A clean whizz quiz (urine test) is mandatory. I'm sure each company is a little different, but expect to spend 2-3 weeks in training before going out. Water survival class, safety classes, basic computer familiarization,, etc., and then probably some time with your new medical director, either in his office or taking an in-house offshore medical class. Once you get to your rig, expect to spend far more time doing administrative paperwork than patient care - that's normal. Even though there's lots of potential for horrific trauma, most companies have fairly robust safety programs, and the medic stuff you do see will be far more medical than trauma, and even then, most of that is skin, dental and ENT type problems. You need to be good at history taking and look for things on your exam that you wouldn't care about on the truck, because the goal is to keep people on the rig and working and not have to send them in to town. To that end, you'll probably have stuff like antibiotics, a cabinet full of OTC stuff, suture material, etc., all for use after calling medical control. Then you'll also have your traditional EMS supplies and equipment. The job is not for everybody - a lot of people can't take being away from home for 2 or more weeks straight. If your wife calls and is upset because the cat died, too bad, if your son has a little league championship game, oh well, you're going to miss it. There's no running home for these minor emergencies. In the case of a true emergency, most companies will bend over backwards to help you out, but those are the exception, not the rule. Ditto for birthdays, holidays, etc, but that really isn't too much different from truck EMS anyway. On the other hand, most people who work offshore actually agree they get more quality home time than they would if they had a 9-5 type job - when you're home, you're home and you don't have to worry about going to work every morning. That's one of the main things I like about offshore - I like the lifestyle. Other benefits - I almost never lift or carry a patient - if someone needs to go from my clinic to the helideck in a basket, I make one call and I'll have a whole crew of strong backs at my disposal. I rarely get woken up at night, and if I do, it's usually for a very good reason - no 3AM EMS calls for the dislodged catheters. Potential drawbacks = I like to equate being on the rig with being in prison - you wear what they tell you to wear, you eat when they tell you to eat, it's (usually) all guys, no booze, and you can't leave until your sentence (hitch) is over. That's half joking, but true. You have to get along with your crew - if you do, they'll treat you like gold, if you don't, they'll abuse the shit out of you. Some rigs (like the rig I"m on now) have wonderful accommodations with private cabins and baths, some have crap where you're sharing a room with 3 other guys at the same time and using a public toilet/shower down the hall. Same thing for the food - some companies invest in good cooks and groceries, others use 3rd parties with employees who are literally on work release, parole or from halfway houses. |
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Quoted:
It's not too difficult to get in usually. Look for companies like Safety Management Systems (Acadian Ambulance), Pharmasafe or Medic Systems. Most want at least 2-3 years experience as a paramedic, and some are now requiring NR, where it used to be NR or any state cert. (My company requires NR for new hires, but I'm still working on a state cert) ACLS and CPR obviously, and PHTLS or ITLS are sometimes required. When I first applied, I'd been a paramedic for about 13 years, and spent 5 of those years in the Middle East before 9/11, but most people hired are coming straight from a truck background. A clean whizz quiz (urine test) is mandatory. I'm sure each company is a little different, but expect to spend 2-3 weeks in training before going out. Water survival class, safety classes, basic computer familiarization,, etc., and then probably some time with your new medical director, either in his office or taking an in-house offshore medical class. Once you get to your rig, expect to spend far more time doing administrative paperwork than patient care - that's normal. Even though there's lots of potential for horrific trauma, most companies have fairly robust safety programs, and the medic stuff you do see will be far more medical than trauma, and even then, most of that is skin, dental and ENT type problems. You need to be good at history taking and look for things on your exam that you wouldn't care about on the truck, because the goal is to keep people on the rig and working and not have to send them in to town. To that end, you'll probably have stuff like antibiotics, a cabinet full of OTC stuff, suture material, etc., all for use after calling medical control. Then you'll also have your traditional EMS supplies and equipment. The job is not for everybody - a lot of people can't take being away from home for 2 or more weeks straight. If your wife calls and is upset because the cat died, too bad, if your son has a little league championship game, oh well, you're going to miss it. There's no running home for these minor emergencies. In the case of a true emergency, most companies will bend over backwards to help you out, but those are the exception, not the rule. Ditto for birthdays, holidays, etc, but that really isn't too much different from truck EMS anyway. On the other hand, most people who work offshore actually agree they get more quality home time than they would if they had a 9-5 type job - when you're home, you're home and you don't have to worry about going to work every morning. That's one of the main things I like about offshore - I like the lifestyle. Other benefits - I almost never lift or carry a patient - if someone needs to go from my clinic to the helideck in a basket, I make one call and I'll have a whole crew of strong backs at my disposal. I rarely get woken up at night, and if I do, it's usually for a very good reason - no 3AM EMS calls for the dislodged catheters. Potential drawbacks = I like to equate being on the rig with being in prison - you wear what they tell you to wear, you eat when they tell you to eat, it's (usually) all guys, no booze, and you can't leave until your sentence (hitch) is over. That's half joking, but true. You have to get along with your crew - if you do, they'll treat you like gold, if you don't, they'll abuse the shit out of you. Some rigs (like the rig I"m on now) have wonderful accommodations with private cabins and baths, some have crap where you're sharing a room with 3 other guys at the same time and using a public toilet/shower down the hall. Same thing for the food - some companies invest in good cooks and groceries, others use 3rd parties with employees who are literally on work release, parole or from halfway houses. Quoted:
Quoted:
also interested in this. I've been on a 911 truck for several years now and looking for something different. How do you break into the oil/remote medic stuff? It's not too difficult to get in usually. Look for companies like Safety Management Systems (Acadian Ambulance), Pharmasafe or Medic Systems. Most want at least 2-3 years experience as a paramedic, and some are now requiring NR, where it used to be NR or any state cert. (My company requires NR for new hires, but I'm still working on a state cert) ACLS and CPR obviously, and PHTLS or ITLS are sometimes required. When I first applied, I'd been a paramedic for about 13 years, and spent 5 of those years in the Middle East before 9/11, but most people hired are coming straight from a truck background. A clean whizz quiz (urine test) is mandatory. I'm sure each company is a little different, but expect to spend 2-3 weeks in training before going out. Water survival class, safety classes, basic computer familiarization,, etc., and then probably some time with your new medical director, either in his office or taking an in-house offshore medical class. Once you get to your rig, expect to spend far more time doing administrative paperwork than patient care - that's normal. Even though there's lots of potential for horrific trauma, most companies have fairly robust safety programs, and the medic stuff you do see will be far more medical than trauma, and even then, most of that is skin, dental and ENT type problems. You need to be good at history taking and look for things on your exam that you wouldn't care about on the truck, because the goal is to keep people on the rig and working and not have to send them in to town. To that end, you'll probably have stuff like antibiotics, a cabinet full of OTC stuff, suture material, etc., all for use after calling medical control. Then you'll also have your traditional EMS supplies and equipment. The job is not for everybody - a lot of people can't take being away from home for 2 or more weeks straight. If your wife calls and is upset because the cat died, too bad, if your son has a little league championship game, oh well, you're going to miss it. There's no running home for these minor emergencies. In the case of a true emergency, most companies will bend over backwards to help you out, but those are the exception, not the rule. Ditto for birthdays, holidays, etc, but that really isn't too much different from truck EMS anyway. On the other hand, most people who work offshore actually agree they get more quality home time than they would if they had a 9-5 type job - when you're home, you're home and you don't have to worry about going to work every morning. That's one of the main things I like about offshore - I like the lifestyle. Other benefits - I almost never lift or carry a patient - if someone needs to go from my clinic to the helideck in a basket, I make one call and I'll have a whole crew of strong backs at my disposal. I rarely get woken up at night, and if I do, it's usually for a very good reason - no 3AM EMS calls for the dislodged catheters. Potential drawbacks = I like to equate being on the rig with being in prison - you wear what they tell you to wear, you eat when they tell you to eat, it's (usually) all guys, no booze, and you can't leave until your sentence (hitch) is over. That's half joking, but true. You have to get along with your crew - if you do, they'll treat you like gold, if you don't, they'll abuse the shit out of you. Some rigs (like the rig I"m on now) have wonderful accommodations with private cabins and baths, some have crap where you're sharing a room with 3 other guys at the same time and using a public toilet/shower down the hall. Same thing for the food - some companies invest in good cooks and groceries, others use 3rd parties with employees who are literally on work release, parole or from halfway houses. Thanks for the leads. I've got all the usual card classes etc. I don't mind 2 weeks on if you get 2 off. Just learned of possible big changes coming to my full time so it may be time to move on. |
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I'm sure it varies from person to person but about how long would something like the icing take to get someone back to the point that they could take something else? My MIL isn't very good at all about following her diet (not sure about the insulin) and I know my FIL has found her more than once on or on the verge of a crash. I'd say about 10 or 15 minutes, and double that to start seeing their glucose rise on the glucometer. It isn't unusual at all for their mental status to improve but their glucometer reading to go down a few points before rising. The real trick is not choking them to death on whatever you're giving them. It's not a problem if they're just lethargic and confused, but if they're unconscious there's not really a 100% safe way to give them oral glucose. In most EMS agencies it's contraindicated if they're unconscious, but we have far more resources and solutions available than a W-EMT. Hard candies and tablets would definitely be out of the question. If it was a true emergency with no other help available, I'd put a very small amount (1mL) in between the cheek and gum and let it absorb across the mucous membrane - not the quickest solution, but it's got a good chance of working. |
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Thanks for the leads. I've got all the usual card classes etc. I don't mind 2 weeks on if you get 2 off. Just learned of possible big changes coming to my full time so it may be time to move on. I haven't regretted it, even though it's had its ups and downs, just like any job. Some rigs suck, some are great, just like any job. Just so you know, it will actually work out closer to a 15 day work/13 day off schedule than 14 day/14 day. Depending on where you crew change and where you live, you have to account for travel to the crew change location the day/night before, and if you go out to the rig on a Wednesday morning, you'll get off on a Wednesday morning - technically your 15th day, but at least then you're on your way home. On rare occasions, the weather will mess with your crew change. Most rigs are 14/14, a few are 7/7, 21/21 or 28/28. Having spent at least a year each on 14/14, 21/21 and 28/28, I like the 21s the best. IMHO a 7/7 schedule would suck. PS I still work a truck per diem when I'm home, just to help keep my skills sharp. |
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Lots of great dialogue here.
A few things - EMT-B is a great starting point, for something. You won't make a lot of money but you will get to help people. You won't have longevity in the career but you will be w/o a boss on you constantly. It is a great way to get a grasp of emergency medicine. The class and test, really aren't hard to do, get certified and keep your license. In Michigan, it's 3 year renewal. My advice, do the class but don't quite your day job, yet. |
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Florida is tough for EMT's or paramedics if that's where you're located. I am a FF/Paramedic and most recently an RN. I volunteer for a fire department and work as an RN. Used to work privately as a paramedic but that job gets old quick.
I wish I would've known about the oil field jobs. My wife and I would've moved to Texas really quick as she would make more money there. |
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Now that's an interesting angle I hadn't thought about. Seriously? Annual renewal? I figured it'd be 2-3 years like FA. I knew there were CEUs that had to be done but that would blow chunks. Never heard of it either. In NYS it's every three years(soon maybe every 5). When I was in MA it was three as well. State EMS offices would be needlessly making work for themselves recert'ing their EMT-s, Is, and EMT-Ps every year. Maybe there are some states that require a certain amount of CME annually? WFR and W-EMT are ad ons like GEMS, PHTLS etc. You need the EMT cert first or a course that blends it all together. There are a few out there. that offer the DOT EMT course plus the WFR. SOLO Wilderness EMT |
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WFR and W-EMT are ad ons like GEMS, PHTLS etc. You need the EMT cert first or a course that blends it all together. There are a few out there. that offer the DOT EMT course plus the WFR. SOLO Wilderness EMT Quoted:
WFR and W-EMT are ad ons like GEMS, PHTLS etc. You need the EMT cert first or a course that blends it all together. There are a few out there. that offer the DOT EMT course plus the WFR. SOLO Wilderness EMT WFR should be a standalone course. I'm more a fan of WMI (current certification) and they offer a 3+1 course. The first 3 weeks are EMT-B and the 4th is the W part. I wasn't aware that SOLO had a similar offer. I might look into it anyway. Quoted:
Florida EMS is every 2 years. Everyone renews December 2014 actually. Thanks! |
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I did my WEMT with Remote Medical.
In my 40s, with no interest of being an EMT for work I've done various military medical courses such as TCCC prior I thought RMIs course was exceptionally taught. It was well worth the month spent and the money. I think theirs in particular is superior because of the coast guard MPIC certification which has a bunch of invasive skills. Since I was planning to continue on to Dive Medic I wanted more practice at those skills and certifications, even though I'd done a lot of them in the military. I've been told the NOLS course has more "wilderness" and I may do a class with them to see. RMI is expert at getting people to pass NREMT, plus adding in a lot of other skills, even if the wilderness part may have been slightly lacking. Highly , highly, suggested. |
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And then there are those that rapidly progress to the Paramedic level, become Nationally Registered, and work as overseas contract medics for well over $100K, and when they tire of that, they work as remote medics in the Oil & Gas industry making somewhat less in exchange for a two week on, two week off rotation within the states. Quoted:
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I can see the benefit of having both the knowledge and the marketable skillset of an EMT In most places your EMT training must be renewed regularly, like 1x/year. Also, EMTs don't make a lot of money... iirc, some whatmore than security guards. Not everyone gets to work with the fire department. Lots go to work for ambulance companies; they are the low-paid guys. And then there are those that rapidly progress to the Paramedic level, become Nationally Registered, and work as overseas contract medics for well over $100K, and when they tire of that, they work as remote medics in the Oil & Gas industry making somewhat less in exchange for a two week on, two week off rotation within the states. Any more info on that? |
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I did my WEMT with Remote Medical. In my 40s, with no interest of being an EMT for work I've done various military medical courses such as TCCC prior I thought RMIs course was exceptionally taught. It was well worth the month spent and the money. I think theirs in particular is superior because of the coast guard MPIC certification which has a bunch of invasive skills. Since I was planning to continue on to Dive Medic I wanted more practice at those skills and certifications, even though I'd done a lot of them in the military. I've been told the NOLS course has more "wilderness" and I may do a class with them to see. RMI is expert at getting people to pass NREMT, plus adding in a lot of other skills, even if the wilderness part may have been slightly lacking. Highly , highly, suggested. Ok, that sounds like a very cool program. There's just no way I can do 26 days straight. My only real EMT option would be to do the night school gig and take a Wilderness Upgrade for Medical Professionals (or similar) course. I may have looked at them before and discounted them because I can't get to the West Coast for training either. 
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Quoted: Some tips just in case you haven't heard them elsewhere: When you buy a glucometer make sure you check the prices of the test strips, which generally have an annual expiration. The machines are usually very inexpensive but the strips can vary wildly in price. Oral glucose in a gel or paste form is better than liquid glucose or fruit juice - the liquids are easy to choke on. The tablets take too long to dissolve, imo. Definitely a good idea to get a class on anaphylaxis - don't want to go sticking the wrong kind of patient with an Epi-pen. you should be getting your glucommeter completely free. hell I have like six of them if anyone wants just PM me. Like sircam said, they run the same type of scam as disposable razors. The machine they literally mail to you after filling out a 4 line shipping address on their website, the strips are where you get raped. I respectfully dissagree on the glucose. I agree the tablets blow, but we were very happy when they finally let us use substitute a glass of juice or a soda (when appropriate) instead of forcing the patient to try to swallow a tube of instaglucose without gagging for 5 minutes. You could never imaginee someone would figure out a way to make almost pure sugare taste like shit... but they did. And for those that are already down for the count, its nice to be able to just dump a tube of insta between their cheek and teeth and start to let it do its thing, without trying to mess around with shoving down their throat or whatever. Finally maybe I missed a post up above somewhere but I don't understand what your trying to get at with the anaphylaxis comment? I am just about postive that you are making a reference to someone who may appear to be in classic anaphylactic shock but is actually suffering from anaphylactoid issues. But correct me if im wrong but the issue is moot at the time since epi is still going to be the first line treatment for either case regardless no? |
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I respectfully dissagree on the glucose. I agree the tablets blow, but we were very happy when they finally let us use substitute a glass of juice or a soda (when appropriate) instead of forcing the patient to try to swallow a tube of instaglucose without gagging for 5 minutes. You could never imaginee someone would figure out a way to make almost pure sugare taste like shit... but they did. And for those that are already down for the count, its nice to be able to just dump a tube of insta between their cheek and teeth and start to let it do its thing, without trying to mess around with shoving down their throat or whatever. Interesting. I guess I presumed that the patient may not be able to drink something which is why I was thinking the icing/instaglucose route. Me thinks I'll PM you for a meter. 
I finally had the chance to sit down with my fire captain buddy. He said he thinks I should focus on WFR unless I really want to get into the EMT stuff. He thinks there will be too much emphasis on stuff that's not pertinent to long-term pre-hospital care while trying to evacuate. I won't have the same options/equipment in the woods that I'd have doing ambulance/ER clinicals. So I think I'll ride my WFA out this year and when I get my extra week of vacation next year I'll upgrade instead of just renewing. Thanks for all the input guys! |