Posted: 4/10/2011 1:25:07 PM EDT
|
Striker posted in another thread that his primary weapon is his rifle, and his sidearm is his secondary.
In other country’s, that is SOP for many police units. What's wrong with us (US law Enforcement) doing this? I’ve given it some thought, and this is what I came up with. We all know the weapon to have at a gun fight is a long weapon. How realistic is it for us to walk around with our ARs/M16's whatever. 1. I'd hate to pack that thing in and out for regular calls of service. Sure, I could wind up in a gun fight at a stolen bike report, but is it practical for the officers comfort and completing the assignment. 2. Hands are occupied. Now I know I will have my hands occupied at all times. Have fun with less lethal tools your trying to get to. What about simple events like working a fair? The damn thing will be bumping into people. 3. PR. This is not really a problem. After talking to NYPD guys who are still assigned positions with a rifle, the public had grown accustomed to it. Last few visits back, I watched how people interacted with these officers. Still asking for directions, asking questions, the usual. Must say, I'm proud the public is acting towards these officers. Pros: 1. I have it with me, so I'm more prepared for that gun fight. 2. Numbers. I don't know if we can make a comparison to properly analyze data, but how many shootings would not occur if perp sees an officer get out with a long gun? Other considerations: Turns into a foot pursuit Are gun grabs going to turn into a justified shooting faster or more common? Weapon: Is it more piratical if we don't pack a M4 and use a shorter weapon still in rifle caliber? For all assignments? Maybe only for stationary assignments? Any thoughts? |
|
Outside of stationary posts, I can't see that it would be terribly practical or even necessary for that matter.
If it makes you feel better, my guys are given carte blanche to deploy their rifles whenever they feel so inclined. There are no prerequisites as to when it can come out. I've seen them out on car stops, domestics, alarms, disturbances, bar fights, etc. It has a distinct 'oh shit' effect at disturbances and bar fights. When the generally unruly crowds see one of us strolling around with a slung rifle, they seem to believe that we really mean business. It acts as a very effective deterrant. My personal philosophy is that we are armed anyway. Why should there be any special circumstances involved to warrant the choice of a better weapon? |
|
I agree with the above supervisor, you should be able to bust one out whenever you want, i think i would have deployed mine a little more with a supportive department, but still i wouldnt want to lug that damn thing around everywhere and they DO intimidate the public, which causes me to only deploy them when its full blown go time.
If i really wanted to roll with a carbine it would be a folding stock, polymer 5.56 with a really short barrel and a 20 round mag slung tight over my back with a sling that had a metal braid in it so it couldnt get cut or yanked off. Truthfully though, i could rock your world ALMOST as hard with my customized handgun as with a carbine. The ballistics are lesser but my accuracy and capacity arent too far off. Then again, im really sweet on nice pistols and practicing with them. |
|
Quoted:
I could see where an MP5 or UMP could come in handy in this situation. Unless you have a VERY SBR, that could work as well. I'm thinking something like this: http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uk-police1.jpg Dude needs to go on a diet. And that stick makes sense for him cause hes standing guard on a post. It would be a different story on patrol in a busy urban area. The only patrol guys that i could see liking this would be sheriffs deputies down by the border. |
|
Just to clarify on Glock918's post..our 9mm (soon to be C8) carbine is our primary weapon on our motorized patrols and internal armed posts. If I deploy it on motorized..I won't be getting in a foot chase or going hands on. If the "perp" moves in any direction besides going prone..he's getting shot. I agree with Glock918's comments. Would the benefits outweigh the potential problems. Maybe a solution would be for the second and subsequent responding units to deploy a long gun. Or in the case of two man cars, the officer riding shotgun deploy it. I subscribe to the old adage.."it's better to have it and not need it...." |
Because most of GD's heads explode when we pull out a 870 on a hot call anyway?
Seriously though, on a hot & busy night my patrol brethren are lucky to get one backup on a hot call, much less two. I don't like pulling out a long gun on calls unless it's at least the third or fourth officer doing it, mostly because of the likelihood of the first two having to go mano-a-mano with the BG. That noted, if the situation dictates... |
|
Excellent point Striker. Its ok for one to be with a rifle, but #2 needs to go hands on so no rifle?
We have a drill and I have a sling for this. I have my M16A1 (now a M4 config). If I am alone, I toss it, literally, behind my back. It lands in the vertical position lined up with my spine. I still don't want to defend a gun grab at this point. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could see where an MP5 or UMP could come in handy in this situation. Unless you have a VERY SBR, that could work as well. I'm thinking something like this: http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uk-police1.jpg Dude needs to go on a diet. And that stick makes sense for him cause hes standing guard on a post. It would be a different story on patrol in a busy urban area. The only patrol guys that i could see liking this would be sheriffs deputies down by the border. Considering that is the UK, I'm surprised he's even allowed to carry it on a standing post. He's also about the same build as me  stomach wise, but I'm a bit more muscular in the arms/shoulders/back area. I also leg press over 500 lbs, just can't get rid of the stomach.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I could see where an MP5 or UMP could come in handy in this situation. Unless you have a VERY SBR, that could work as well. I'm thinking something like this: http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uk-police1.jpg Dude needs to go on a diet. And that stick makes sense for him cause hes standing guard on a post. It would be a different story on patrol in a busy urban area. The only patrol guys that i could see liking this would be sheriffs deputies down by the border. Considering that is the UK, I'm surprised he's even allowed to carry it on a standing post. He's also about the same build as me stomach wise, but I'm a bit more muscular in the arms/shoulders/back area. I also leg press over 500 lbs, just can't get rid of the stomach.Long gun is primary carry over here when deployed..handguns are just backup for most of us, unless on a covert/protection detail.. |
|
i've been in quite a few situations where the rifle can get in the way. ie, foot bails, wrestling with tweakers, even just putting cuffs on someone gets a little more complicated.
With that said, if its any sort of call with a weapon the rifle is coming out. It can really settle down stupid situations. |
|
Quoted: It's a situation dictates IMHo but personally..if there is more then one responding officer..then there should be long guns deployed by back up officers.i've been in quite a few situations where the rifle can get in the way. ie, foot bails, wrestling with tweakers, even just putting cuffs on someone gets a little more complicated. With that said, if its any sort of call with a weapon the rifle is coming out. It can really settle down stupid situations. |