[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Any Agencies using Subguns? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/27/2010 11:27:39 AM EDT
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Is your agency or a neighboring agency using subguns? If so which type MP5, UMP, Colt SMG, etc?
CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 |
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A buddy's agency uses MP5's, but they are ratty, old, and in disrepair. Their full-time armorer is having trouble keeping them in service.
This agency apparently has signed a contract for KRISS .45's, but they haven't materialized yet due to some squabbling and price changing from KRISS. |
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I can think of at least two fairly large agencies in AL that still use sub guns for SRT teams. One uses UMP .40's and the other UMP 45's. However only maybe 1/3 have the sub guns while the rest of the team has M4's. I know the FBI in my old area had MP5's in inventory,because I shot them, but I don't know if they are actively used.
That was as of a few months ago before I left to do some contracting, so I assume that is still the case. |
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Each of our patrol cars has an MP-5/9mm and a 14" Benelli secured in the front and, if qualified, an M-4 in the trunk. Interestingly, our last two OIS' were with MP-5's. Both were felony traffic stops with armed suspects. The passenger officers fired, killing the suspects. Near identical incidents 4 months apart. First shooting was two 3 round bursts to the upper chest and neck. The second shooting was one 3 round burst hitting the sternum and breast plate. Great little weapons for building searches and perimeters. We just ordered Colt Commandos/5.56 to replace the MP-5's in the front of the patrol cars, but we're gonna keep 20-24 of them to mount on our motors and for our surveillance and entry teams. John |
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Two Colt RO635 9mm Subguns. Originally for the Deputies covering each of the shield guy's in our SWAT stacks. But our Boss (retirng soon) is anti-rifle so they were issued out as we had too many SWAT guys and not enough M16's in the armory.
The real shame is they are issued with a FMJ's only. I can't believe there's not a modern HP that would feed in those guns. |
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Quoted:
Two Colt RO635 9mm Subguns. Originally for the Deputies covering each of the shield guy's in our SWAT stacks. But our Boss (retirng soon) is anti-rifle so they were issued out as we had too many SWAT guys and not enough M16's in the armory. The real shame is they are issued with a FMJ's only. I can't believe there's not a modern HP that would feed in those guns. One of the reasons I hate the Colt SMG. |
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Quoted: We are (soon to change) running MP-5 9mms in our stack on Tac Team..They are being replaced by Bushie select fire M-4s..... Oh my friend please tell me its the F/A Bushmaster and not the burst. I've had nothing but problems with our BM burst guns. If you buy them make sure you buy extra burst components because you'll be changing them out a lot. Oh, and get KNS pins too. Four of our guns had the trigger pin walk out. |
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Quoted:
Two Colt RO635 9mm Subguns. Originally for the Deputies covering each of the shield guy's in our SWAT stacks. But our Boss (retirng soon) is anti-rifle so they were issued out as we had too many SWAT guys and not enough M16's in the armory. The real shame is they are issued with a FMJ's only. I can't believe there's not a modern HP that would feed in those guns. This...Colt SMGs and they are not a good system IMO. They only run with full power ball ammo, mags are unreliable and fall apart, trigger pins break...and you can't mount an optic bc of the fixed carrying handle. All in all, a poor system that is no smaller than a MK 18 and provides less performance than just about any other long gun option as it is limited to ball ammo. When I see an SMG in use today, I see somewhere with lazy or uninformed leadership. Unless you need full suppression, there is NOTHING that an SMG does better than an SBR. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Two Colt RO635 9mm Subguns. Originally for the Deputies covering each of the shield guy's in our SWAT stacks. But our Boss (retirng soon) is anti-rifle so they were issued out as we had too many SWAT guys and not enough M16's in the armory. The real shame is they are issued with a FMJ's only. I can't believe there's not a modern HP that would feed in those guns. This...Colt SMGs and they are not a good system IMO. They only run with full power ball ammo, mags are unreliable and fall apart, trigger pins break...and you can't mount an optic bc of the fixed carrying handle. All in all, a poor system that is no smaller than a MK 18 and provides less performance than just about any other long gun option as it is limited to ball ammo. When I see an SMG in use today, I see somewhere with lazy or uninformed leadership. Unless you need full suppression, there is NOTHING that an SMG does better than an SBR. You hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately for my agency, our leadership will probably wait until something bad happens before replacing it. |
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Quoted:
Each of our patrol cars has an MP-5/9mm and a 14" Benelli secured in the front and, if qualified, an M-4 in the trunk. Interestingly, our last two OIS' were with MP-5's. Both were felony traffic stops with armed suspects. The passenger officers fired, killing the suspects. Near identical incidents 4 months apart. First shooting was two 3 round bursts to the upper chest and neck. The second shooting was one 3 round burst hitting the sternum and breast plate. Great little weapons for building searches and perimeters. We just ordered Colt Commandos/5.56 to replace the MP-5's in the front of the patrol cars, but we're gonna keep 20-24 of them to mount on our motors and for our surveillance and entry teams. John I think Colt Commandos would be just about perfect for patrol use! |
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Thank you for the responses so far. I am trying to gauge how many agencies are still using some type of subgun, and which ones. In our agency we are still running some 9mm MP5's, though we generally use rifles. Some of the agencies across our state are running MP5's in 9mm and .40S&W, with a few UMP's in both calibers, mostly we generally see some form of an AR15 rifle, and I can think of a very few FN P90's or HK G36's (more of a rarity). In smaller agencies we do see a lot of shotguns only as of yet, I think it is due to budgets and sometimes administrations.
We have given Free Rifles & Training (via our grant program) to many needy agencies that did not have any type of a rifle or subgun program. We have more rifles ready to go to a good home. We are considering providing some subguns as well if there is interest. CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 |
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Quoted: Thank you for the responses so far. I am trying to gauge how many agencies are still using some type of subgun, and which ones. In our agency we are still running some 9mm MP5's, though we generally use rifles. Some of the agencies across our state are running MP5's in 9mm and .40S&W, with a few UMP's in both calibers, mostly we generally see some form of an AR15 rifle, and I can think of a very few FN P90's or HK G36's (more of a rarity). In smaller agencies we do see a lot of shotguns only as of yet, I think it is due to budgets and sometimes administrations. We have given Free Rifles & Training (via our grant program) to many needy agencies that did not have any type of a rifle or subgun program. We have more rifles ready to go to a good home. We are considering providing some subguns as well if there is interest. CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123  |