[ARCHIVED THREAD] - flipping off a cop (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/2/2010 11:18:46 AM EDT
|
So before i start, I just want to say I'm as pro-LEO as you can get, so this is not a post about me personally flipping off a cop.
but earlier today, for some god forsaken reason, i had the thought about what would happen if i just randomly flipped a cop off going by me while im driving. im guessing i would get a Disorderly Conduct ticket maybe? but whats the deal with this scenario from the LEOs perspective? |
|
Freedom of speech?
What would happen if you uttered the same words to a police officer? (ETA - no doubt the nice officer can make your life a bit too interesting for a while. stupidity often hurts) Such rudeness may not be the brightest thing someone ever did, though I don't think its illegal to say rude or offensive things. |
|
Quoted: So before i start, I just want to say I'm as pro-LEO as you can get, so this is not a post about me personally flipping off a cop. but earlier today, for some god forsaken reason, i had the thought about what would happen if i just randomly flipped a cop off going by me while im driving. im guessing i would get a Disorderly Conduct ticket maybe? but whats the deal with this scenario from the LEOs perspective? "Good afternoon sir. It just so happens you match the description of a guy who wants his ass beat before going to jail. You also somewhat resemble a guy who's gonna have to pay a lot of money to the state." |
|
Just such a thing has made the news here lately, because some guy upset with the sheriff's office started flipping off deputies. He ended up getting stopped a few times and was given traffic tickets (he was driving while flying 'ole #1). He's suing now.
It's his Constitutional right to express his opinion like that, but he had to know it would bring him some special attention. There are things that are legal but foolish. ETA: I've been a cop for 11 years now and not a day goes by (at work) without someone letting me know what they think of my profession, my parentage, my intellect, etc.... I've learned to pick my battles, but if the situation was right and someone went out of their way to do such things, I would certainly entertain the idea of making sure they were obeying all applicable traffic / pedestrian laws. Bringing undue attention to yourself in that manner is, by it's nature, inviting some kind of confrontation. That confrontation may be a return gesture, a conversation, a heated conversation or the issuing of some kind of ticket or citation. ETA pt II: giving the bird to the po-po |
Although flipping us off isn't against the law.....there are plenty of things that people do everyday that are, which often get over looked.....someone so inclined to flip one of us off may find themselves in a position of being brought to their attention ALL the things you can be written up for.
|
|
Quoted:
Just such a thing has made the news here lately, because some guy upset with the sheriff's office started flipping off deputies. He ended up getting stopped a few times and was given traffic tickets (he was driving while flying 'ole #1). He's suing now. It's his Constitutional right to express his opinion like that, but he had to know it would bring him some special attention. There are things that are legal but foolish. ETA: I've been a cop for 11 years now and not a day goes by (at work) without someone letting me know what they think of my profession, my parentage, my intellect, etc.... I've learned to pick my battles, but if the situation was right and someone went out of their way to do such things, I would certainly entertain the idea of making sure they were obeying all applicable traffic / pedestrian laws. Bringing undue attention to yourself in that manner is, by it's nature, inviting some kind of confrontation. That confrontation may be a return gesture, a conversation, a heated conversation or the issuing of some kind of ticket or citation. ETA pt II: giving the bird to the po-po Well said. I've only gotten the bird once, and I was on foot directing traffic. If it happened while driving I might stop them and say, "Sir, I noticed you signalling me, can I be of assistance to you in anyway?" |
|
Quoted: Although flipping us off isn't against the law.....there are plenty of things that people do everyday that are, which often get over looked.....someone so inclined to flip one of us off may find themselves in a position of being brought to their attention ALL the things you can be written up for. Follow a driver long enough, you will get PC for a stop.  |
|
I would be much if I got the finger far more frequently then the ass hats who sit in their lane and make no effort to move when I run code.
I cannot tell you the anger that fills me when I am running code to a dying kid, burglary in progress, FV in progress, robbery, etc and herds of morons sit there looking at me like I'm the asshole. giving me the bird doesn't give me anything but a chuckle. chickenshit and petty is pretty common place for me to deal with at work, I think that falls into the same category. |
|
I work in a very busy college town (busy due to college and due to the town being shit, LOL) so we get all kinds of guff from the little bastards. I usually just flip em off back and keep going (which usually gets a big laugh from their dumb ass friends that they are with too). Usually too busy to make a federal case over someone flipping me off. Just how I personally handle it.
I do know that some of our younger guys would throw it in reverse and the chase would be on all for something that in out county would get tossed as a exercise of the suspects first amendment rights, LOL J- |
|
I did that once.............or rather, that's what he thought I did. What it was, however, was that I was biking, at the stop sign, and as the Sheriff's officer passed me in the other direction, I gave my hand right turn signal...........and he thought I flipped him off.
He came about, flashed his lights, leaned out his window, and asked me if I just flipped him off. A whole bunch of "Sirs" from me starting with "No, Sir". He was very communiable about it, probably because it caught him totally by surprise and he was wondering what was up. Maybe a minute of talk and then he wished me on my way with a be careful. Now, on an interesting side point, then I wasn't packing........but it's been a development issue to be packing when I'm biking since I am out in the middle of the country a lot (about 5 minutes in a 270, I can be in the country). How would I have approached that day if I had? I imagine both hands on the handle bars and as soon as I could, inform him I was carrying under my CHL. ________________________________________________ ("Oh, the charges against your friend are most serious."––Mexican police office "Sir, what did he do that was so bad?"––girl friend "He pissed me off.", (w,stte), some spring break movie) |
| No birds, but quite a few "F*ck You or F*ck Offs". We'll just smile and wave. First time I heard that on the job, I was kind of shocked. I never thought about yelling something like that to the police when I was a kid. I guess kids these days are brought up with no respect for the law. |
| I had a knucklehead decide to flip me off while I was standing in the parking lot of the barracks talking with another trooper. Of course, this got our attention. I happened to notice he was not wearing his seatbelt along with his 2 young children (ages were later found out to be 4 YOA and 2 YOA). Anyway, I stopped said knucklehead for the seatbelt violation and he was intoxicated. I arrested him for DWI and 2 counts of Endangering the Welfare of a Child. While he was being processed, he said to me, "Man, that was stupid". He was thrown in jail on $5000.00 cash bail. +1 for the good guys! |
|
Well said. I've only gotten the bird once, and I was on foot directing traffic. If it happened while driving I might stop them and say, "Sir, I noticed you signalling me, can I be of assistance to you in anyway?"
I have used this one a few times. Never had one hold his nerve though, they have always apologized for the "misunderstanding". I have done the same when I catch them flashing their headlights to oncoming traffic. |
| In Wyoming, that is not a citeable offense. NOW, there are certain things that people do that attract the attention of law enforcement. They say discretion is the better part of valor. Flipping off some of the cops in my department would draw attention to yourself that you would not want. Others could care less. Its like Russian Routlette. Sometimes you win, sometimes....BANG! |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
so besides in WA(and probally a good many other places), flipping a LEO off is not a ticketable offense? It could easily be argued that it is disorderly conduct (actions likely to end in an assault). I would just say its probably better not to do it. theres not first admendment right to use abusive, vulgar, or profane language or gestures in a public place and doing so in texas to a citizen thats willing to press charges will result in you getting a disorderly conduct citation. However officers are held to a higher expectation due to their jobs and the courts have found that officers should expect to deal with this kind of crap during their regular tour of duty so technically they cant do anything to you for cursing them or flipping them the bird. HOWEVER, if anyone is standing around who is offended by the language, and they offer to press charges, that officer is definately and without a doubt going to stroke you. |
|
Title 18 Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes
§ 5503. Disorderly Conduct. (a) Offense defined.––A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he: (1) engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; (2) makes unreasonable noise; (3) uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or (4) creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor. (b) Grading.––An offense under this section is a misdemeanor of the third degree if the intent of the actor is to cause substantial harm or serious inconvenience, or if he persists in disorderly conduct after reasonable warning or request to desist. Otherwise disorderly conduct is a summary offense. (c) Definition.––As used in this section the word "public" means affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access; among the places included are highways, transport facilities, schools, prisons, apartment houses, places of business or amusement, any neighborhood, or any premises which are open to the public. ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- Also, every car on the road has at least three equipment violations. |
|
Quoted:
Title 18 Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes § 5503. Disorderly Conduct. (a) Offense defined.––A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he: (1) engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; (2) makes unreasonable noise; (3) uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or (4) creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor. (b) Grading.––An offense under this section is a misdemeanor of the third degree if the intent of the actor is to cause substantial harm or serious inconvenience, or if he persists in disorderly conduct after reasonable warning or request to desist. Otherwise disorderly conduct is a summary offense. (c) Definition.––As used in this section the word "public" means affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access; among the places included are highways, transport facilities, schools, prisons, apartment houses, places of business or amusement, any neighborhood, or any premises which are open to the public. ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- Also, every car on the road has at least three equipment violations. I thought that's the way it was worded in AZ also. |
|
This is from the Texas penal code.
TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly: (1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace; (2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace; (3) creates, by chemical means, a noxious and unreasonable odor in a public place; (4) abuses or threatens a person in a public place in an obviously offensive manner; (5) makes unreasonable noise in a public place other than a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code, or in or near a private residence that he has no right to occupy; (6) fights with another in a public place; (7) discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code; (8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm; (9) discharges a firearm on or across a public road; (10) exposes his anus or genitals in a public place and is reckless about whether another may be present who will be offended or alarmed by his act; or (11) for a lewd or unlawful purpose: (A) enters on the property of another and looks into a dwelling on the property through any window or other opening in the dwelling; (B) while on the premises of a hotel or comparable establishment, looks into a guest room not the person's own through a window or other opening in the room; or (C) while on the premises of a public place, looks into an area such as a restroom or shower stall or changing or dressing room that is designed to provide privacy to a person using the area. (b) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(4) that the actor had significant provocation for his abusive or threatening conduct. (c) For purposes of this section: (1) an act is deemed to occur in a public place or near a private residence if it produces its offensive or proscribed consequences in the public place or near a private residence; and (2) a noise is presumed to be unreasonable if the noise exceeds a decibel level of 85 after the person making the noise receives notice from a magistrate or peace officer that the noise is a public nuisance. (d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor unless committed under Subsection (a)(7) or (a)(8), in which event it is a Class B misdemeanor. (e) It is a defense to prosecution for an offense under Subsection (a)(7) or (9) that the person who discharged the firearm had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code. Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1977, 65th Leg., p. 181, ch. 89, Sec. 1, 2, eff. Aug. 29, 1977; Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 4641, ch. 800, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1983; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 145, Sec. 2, eff. Aug. 26, 1991; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 318, Sec. 14, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 54, Sec. 4, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 389, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003. |
|
Quoted:
Not sure what would happen, nobody has ever flipped me off. I have had a number of people over the years wave me down looking for assistance though... Good point. An old-timer wrote a guy for turning right after indicating a left turn by extending his left arm (and middle finger) straight out the driver's side window. Won it in traffic court, too.
|
Lots of people talk about their rights, but few talk about responsibilities. Seems like some are out to just exercise their rights and see how far they can push it, without noticing the degrading effect their behavior has on society as a whole. Consider the fact that if you did that to any other random person, they could possibly sign a disturbing the peace complaint and you could end up charged. So why would you do that to a cop? In reality, if you want to flip me off, or call me names, that's not a crime in and of itself, but it's also my right AND responsibility to see what your deal is. At the very least, you'll end up in a 'puter with a "stop and talk" entry which will indicate that you're hostile towards police. Enjoy never getting a warning on a traffic offense again, asshole. 
|
|
Quoted:
I always stop and ask the citizens who flag me down if they have a problem they need my help to correct. This! Especially, if the arm comes out the window or the person is outside. I can't tell if they are exercising their First Amendment Right or needing assistance as I go by. |
|
Quoted:
This is from the Texas penal code. TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly: (1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace; (2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace; (3) creates, by chemical means, a noxious and unreasonable odor in a public place; (4) abuses or threatens a person in a public place in an obviously offensive manner; (5) makes unreasonable noise in a public place other than a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code, or in or near a private residence that he has no right to occupy; (6) fights with another in a public place; (7) discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code; (8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm; (9) discharges a firearm on or across a public road; (10) exposes his anus or genitals in a public place and is reckless about whether another may be present who will be offended or alarmed by his act; or (11) for a lewd or unlawful purpose: (A) enters on the property of another and looks into a dwelling on the property through any window or other opening in the dwelling; (B) while on the premises of a hotel or comparable establishment, looks into a guest room not the person's own through a window or other opening in the room; or (C) while on the premises of a public place, looks into an area such as a restroom or shower stall or changing or dressing room that is designed to provide privacy to a person using the area. (b) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(4) that the actor had significant provocation for his abusive or threatening conduct. (c) For purposes of this section: (1) an act is deemed to occur in a public place or near a private residence if it produces its offensive or proscribed consequences in the public place or near a private residence; and (2) a noise is presumed to be unreasonable if the noise exceeds a decibel level of 85 after the person making the noise receives notice from a magistrate or peace officer that the noise is a public nuisance. (d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor unless committed under Subsection (a)(7) or (a)(8), in which event it is a Class B misdemeanor. (e) It is a defense to prosecution for an offense under Subsection (a)(7) or (9) that the person who discharged the firearm had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code. Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1977, 65th Leg., p. 181, ch. 89, Sec. 1, 2, eff. Aug. 29, 1977; Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 4641, ch. 800, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1983; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 145, Sec. 2, eff. Aug. 26, 1991; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 318, Sec. 14, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 54, Sec. 4, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 389, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003. just playing devils advocate here but does flipping someone off actually "incite an immediate breach of peace" in my experience no, not unless the person getting flipped off goes off the deep end. I feel that inciting an immediate breach of peace would be a racically charged comment or yelling fire in a crowded theater (which while it seems to be a faily mundant thing is NOT protected under the 1st Amend due to the panic and accompaning stampeed) etc. In Michigan a Police Officers peace can not be Disturbed. We are not considered citizens while on duty and we have had a couple of officers loose Dist the peace tickets for driving past a loud party, stopping and citing the residents when there was no citizen complainant. I tend to think that the courts may actually look at it that way for this as well. Now if there is a crowd of people and a guy flips you off and the "crowd goes wild" causing people to stop and look etc then I could buy disorderly conduct. Our city ordinace for Disorderly has wording in it along that lines. That there has to be some articulation that the disturbance is causing others grief (paraphrased). J- |