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Posted: 3/28/2006 2:42:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 5:39:07 AM EDT by PK90]
How do I convince a non-licensed person that they are not required to have a physical copy of my license prior to shipping a firearm to me?

I've pointed out the regulations between licensees (certified copies and verification), LINK, and explained that the BATFE only requires suggests that a non-licensed person verify a licensee's status by calling them or by using the FFL EZ-Check website.

Does anyone have a letter from the BATFE addressing this issue, or a better way of explaining it? The online gun auctions are misleading buyers by telling them that a copy is required prior to shipping.

ETA: Sorry to bring back the dead, but I just found an archived discussion on this matter with no definitive answer.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:16:20 AM EDT
It's hard to prove a negative. All you should have to do is provide the seller with the first 3 and last 5 digits in your FFL number. He can then verify your license and premesis address through the FFL eZCheck system.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:38:52 PM EDT
Is it that hard to fax them or mail them a copy?

They are just being cautious about the transaction. With all the horror stories, can you blame them??
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:22:10 PM EDT
The horror stories stem from non-licensees getting ahold of licenses that they do not have the priviledge to receive, then alternating and forging them to make illegal purchases.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:57:09 PM EDT
The form is on the net........plenty of places to get it.

You can even find FFLs on line. Simple search and I'll have whatever I need to forge one. Switch an address and it is coming to the vacant house next store.

Not real rocket science.....if tweekers can fake a passport, DLs, birt certs, a FFL is even easier.

Either way, you aren't responsible for what someone does with one of your documents as long as you didn't provide it to them knowing they would use it for illegal purposes.

That is why a fax would work too......not real clear, but clear enough for honest folks.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:08:04 PM EDT
Then do you have any problem giving the unlicensed seller the first three and last five digits of your license #, so they can verify you and your address on FFL EZ-Check?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:10:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 3:13:13 AM EDT by PK90]

Originally Posted By RDP:
The form is on the net........plenty of places to get it.

You can even find FFLs on line. Simple search and I'll have whatever I need to forge one. Switch an address and it is coming to the vacant house next store.

Not real rocket science.....if tweekers can fake a passport, DLs, birt certs, a FFL is even easier.

Either way, you aren't responsible for what someone does with one of your documents as long as you didn't provide it to them knowing they would use it for illegal purposes.

That is why a fax would work too......not real clear, but clear enough for honest folks.

I see your point, but question the validity of your statement.

Originally Posted By KingC:
Then do you have any problem giving the unlicensed seller the first three and last five digits of your license #, so they can verify you and your address on FFL EZ-Check?

Already done that. It wasn't good enough.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:15:57 AM EDT
You supplied him with the ATF suggested method to verify your FFL status and shipping address. If that's not good enough for him have his FFL ship it to you and take him out of the equation.

Does he think Bushmaster will send him a copy of their FFL if he needs to send a rifle back to them?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:34:10 AM EDT
It was actually a transfer for someone who is a regular customer, so I didn't want to loose his business. I caved and faxed it with writing all over it.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:04:18 AM EDT
The irony is you as an FFL are more at risk from receiving a shipped firearm from an unlicensed person then he is for shipping it to you.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:49:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PK90:

Originally Posted By RDP:
The form is on the net........plenty of places to get it.

You can even find FFLs on line. Simple search and I'll have whatever I need to forge one. Switch an address and it is coming to the vacant house next store.

Not real rocket science.....if tweekers can fake a passport, DLs, birt certs, a FFL is even easier.

Either way, you aren't responsible for what someone does with one of your documents as long as you didn't provide it to them knowing they would use it for illegal purposes.

That is why a fax would work too......not real clear, but clear enough for honest folks.

I see your point, but question the validity of your statement.



What don't you find valid?? How easy it is to get FFL info?? Fake FFL forms??

Please fill me in......especially since I just went through 2 fed cases concerning this type of stuff last year.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:40:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 3:41:30 PM EDT by PK90]

Originally Posted By RDP:
The form is on the net........plenty of places to get it.

You can even find FFLs on line. Simple search and I'll have whatever I need to forge one. Switch an address and it is coming to the vacant house next store....

Really? It is that easy to get a copy online? You must have a helluva search engine. Please provide us all with a link to an FFL form. I doubt that you even know what a license looks like or what the numbers mean.

Originally Posted By RDP:

Originally Posted By PK90:
I see your point, but question the validity of your statement.



What don't you find valid?? How easy it is to get FFL info?? Fake FFL forms??

Please fill me in......especially since I just went through 2 fed cases concerning this type of stuff last year.

Sorry to hear that. Which side?
Your point being, that the FFL would be easily copied. Hence, that is why there should be less copies available to people who do not have the right to have one. Hell, since the ATF suggests that the validity of a licensee be checked online, there should not be a need for anyone to have a physical copy, dealer or not.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:36:07 PM EDT
here's an interesting short web page devoted to this transfer of firearm subject. Nothing "official", just interesting.

chris.cc/interstate.htm
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:46:35 PM EDT
The next tweaker site I find that has them, I'll be sure to forward you a copy

A FFL copy is not a real high tech document.......about as high tech as a driver's license in the 50's.

The concern about sending one is it may be used for unlawful activities.......there are plenty around already with the forms being out there.

You are worried about the guy you are buying a gun from having a copy. I see it now...."I know you are giving me a good deal on this gun and that is why I am buying it. I am not concerned if it is stolen, used in a crime, or the type of person I am buying it from. You probably are a crook and I don't want you to have a copy of my FFL. That is my main concern"

Whatever floats your boat....I got rid of my FFL for personal reasons. Wish I still had it.
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