[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FrontSight fires back..... (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 2/9/2010 11:02:24 PM EDT
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It seems a very vocal minority of law enforcement types have taken offense to my blog post below.
I say a very vocal minority because for every 100 or so positive responses I have received from law enforcement officers around the country, thanking me for this post, I have received a nasty e-mail from someone in law enforcement demanding that I remove the post and immediately apologize for exploiting the death of a fallen officer for Front Sight's profit. Well, here is my response to those who were offended and have bullied their way on to chat rooms and forums to raise an outrage where there is none. #1. I'm not the one who created, produced or edited the video in question. #2. I'm not the one who released it to public domain by placing it on You Tube and other video sharing sites. #3. I did not even search it out. It has been sent to me numerous times over the years by my law enforcement and private citizen students asking me to share it with other students as a teaching tool of what not to do in a lethal encounter. #4. Nowhere in the video or this blog do I identify any individual officer or department, nor do I give any back story or epilogue that would identify or harm the image of the individuals or department involved. Ironically, only those who are demanding that I remove this video are guilty of identifying the officer, his family and his department in their inflammatory demands and outrageous accusations. #5. The title, "Stop Screaming, Start Shooting" refers to the repeated screaming of commands by the officer when he clearly should have stopped screaming commands and started shooting. The title does not refer to his screams that followed during the gun fight. #6. The demand by those law enforcement types that I immediately remove this blog and apologize for exploiting the death of an officer for profit, smacks of censorship and double standard. There are hundreds of violent crimes caught on video and 911 audios on the Internet from "for profit" sites (including law enforcement sites) where private citizens are injured or killed due to their lack of good judgment, tactics, and marksmanship, yet you do not see these same law enforcement types demanding that those videos be removed. #7. As far as being a private, "for profit" training organization, which for some odd reason also seems to offend the vocal minority, may I state that a police officer or any employee of a government agency or even a non-profit organization who ACCEPTS A PAYCHECK is working "for profit." #8. Am I sorry for the officer involved? Absolutely. I am sorry this officer did not receive the proper training and field supervision he needed to have the mindset, tactics and marksmanship skills to win a lethal encounter. Had he received proper training in mindset, tactics and marksmanship, he would be alive today. THAT is the reason and the ONLY reason why this blog was posted and why Front Sight provides special training offers attached to the blogs. #9. Front Sight has a 14 year history of providing private citizens and law enforcement alike with a level of training that exceeds law enforcement and military standards without any boot camp mentality or drill instructors attitudes. To date, hundreds of thousands of people, private citizens and law enforcement alike have benefited from our training. Our post-course surveys prove 99.5% of our students love us and we welcome them back with our special offers and lifetime memberships. The other one half of 1 percent NOBODY can make happy as they look for the negative in anything positive and disrupt everyone else. We encourage the vocal minority to look for their training elsewhere. #10. See the video blog post below that had more forwards and bookmarks than any blog we have ever posted. Because Front Sight's purpose is to positively change the image of gun ownership by providing responsible citizens and law enforcement alike with a level of training that exceeds law enforcement and military standards, also see the special offer below the video to provide a lifetime of training for citizens and law enforcements officers alike. Training to protect you and your family so you will never become a victim due to lack of the proper mindset, tactics, or marksmanship skills. Here is the original blog post that prompted the vocal minority to try to create an inflammatory situation where this was none... |
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And my give a shit meter is flat lining, fuck you piazza, and fuck anyone who thinks his ad is ok. I think anyone who carries a firearm as part of their job needs to watch that video. Its horrific and I cant express enough pity for the fallen officer. But hed be alive right now if he had had the proper training for such a confrontation. This only helps prove that you need the right mindset as well as the proper training to do these types of jobs. This aint the 9-5 that doesnt require much brain power. Failure to be able to think on your feet and react quickly can be deadly, as we just saw. |
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And my give a shit meter is flat lining, fuck you piazza, and fuck anyone who thinks his ad is ok. I think anyone who carries a firearm as part of their job needs to watch that video. Its horrific and I cant express enough pity for the fallen officer. But hed be alive right now if he had had the proper training for such a confrontation. This only helps prove that you need the right mindset as well as the proper training to do these types of jobs. This aint the 9-5 that doesnt require much brain power. Failure to be able to think on your feet and react quickly can be deadly, as we just saw. Exactly I have no problems with that whatsoever. My problem is that hes using the video for monetary gain. Stop screaming, start shooting, is an ad campaign. This guy died because he messed up, and yes I can see showing it in a training class to show all the red flags, and where he should have taken action. The video is truley nerve wracking and it stuck with me for a couple days. I've seen a lot of fucked up things, but this one really got to me. You hear the guy screaming, you hear him begging for his life, you hear the death rattle. He messed up, but he does not deserve to have his death used as an ad campaign to fill the pockets of a chiropractor. |
| While I may be on my own with this, I feel that observing these type of videos helps expose weekness and demonstrates how things can go from normal to completely out of control. While being reverent of what is occuring in these clips I observe to see how it can be manged better. I think that a lot can be learned from the high cost that some officers have paid. |
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And my give a shit meter is flat lining, fuck you piazza, and fuck anyone who thinks his ad is ok. I think anyone who carries a firearm as part of their job needs to watch that video. Its horrific and I cant express enough pity for the fallen officer. But hed be alive right now if he had had the proper training for such a confrontation. This only helps prove that you need the right mindset as well as the proper training to do these types of jobs. This aint the 9-5 that doesnt require much brain power. Failure to be able to think on your feet and react quickly can be deadly, as we just saw. Exactly I have no problems with that whatsoever. My problem is that hes using the video for monetary gain. Stop screaming, start shooting, is an ad campaign. This guy died because he messed up, and yes I can see showing it in a training class to show all the red flags, and where he should have taken action. The video is truley nerve wracking and it stuck with me for a couple days. I've seen a lot of fucked up things, but this one really got to me. You hear the guy screaming, you hear him begging for his life, you hear the death rattle. He messed up, but he does not deserve to have his death used as an ad campaign to fill the pockets of a chiropractor. Indeed, the video is a great way to show all the warning flags and when to shut up and shoot. It should not be used as propaganda IMO the way FrontSight is. It's horrible that an officer died but at the same time if he started to shoot way before than he did in the video he might still be alive. I think everyone who CCW's should watch the video. |
I'm pretty confident his email ratio is cooked. He still didn't address why he omitted the back story, of which I'm sure he is now aware, that the officer in the video had been reprimanded just prior for drawing his gun discretionarily. Finally, his comment about critics "bullying" their way onto web forums makes him look like a moron and a jackass. Plus his business model of hyperinflated prices reduced by "memberships" and "discounts" makes it hard to take his business seriously. Shit like that always makes me  . |
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can someone link the vid? i have never heard about any of this before now http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=986570 |
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i was in very nearly the exact same scenario with a vet who dad took in.
over him growing pot on my land. when he turned to go back to the trailer to get a weapon i rushed him and beat him down with a m1991a1. (colt 1911 repro essentially) i looked like the badguy for pistol whipping the older guy, who had served when i had not, but he didnt get to his 30-30 and i got rid of his impromptu grow op, and he moved along, so all win. I have no doubt he would have vented me had he got to his rifle and I'd not backed down on the no illegal activity part of the lease. |
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i was in very nearly the exact same scenario with a vet who dad took in. over him growing pot on my land. when he turned to go back to the trailer to get a weapon i rushed him and beat him down with a m1991a1. (colt 1911 repro essentially) i looked like the badguy for pistol whipping the older guy, who had served when i had not, but he didnt get to his 30-30 and i got rid of his impromptu grow op, and he moved along, so all win. I have no doubt he would have vented me had he got to his rifle and I'd not backed down on the no illegal activity part of the lease. Being sent to the other side of the world, watching your friends die, and than coming back and being spat on by hippy bastards, is enough to make almost anyone lose it. |
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That old dude needed a mag light shampoo long before he walked back to his truck and started his dance routine. As soon as he walked within reach of me acting aggressively, he would have woke up with asphalt where his teeth used to be. . +1 As soon as the guy started acting aggressive ( dancing around screaming fuck you ) he should have been feed the entire can of OC. |
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Quoted: He really doesn't see a difference between: 1. people taking a lesson from the death of an officer 2. people using the death of that officer to hawk their own little wares  Dirtbag. I hope he chokes on his own excrement. He really has proven is character, or lack thereof, with that rebuttal. Totally clueless, classless, asshat. |
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He really doesn't see a difference between:
1. people taking a lesson from the death of an officer 2. people using the death of that officer to hawk their own little wares
Dirtbag. I hope he chokes on his own excrement. He really has proven is character, or lack thereof, with that rebuttal. Totally clueless, classless, asshat. Yeah, but his mustache is fantastic. 
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And my give a shit meter is flat lining, fuck you piazza, and fuck anyone who thinks his ad is ok. I think the ad is ok and if it saves one life (profit or not) then it was worth it and fuck anybody who disagrees. Wow that sounds harsh huh just like this idiot did. Its a debate, we should not go around saying fuck you to each other over shit like this. Jim |
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I take offense from that add. I had not seen it before.
It is one thing to teach from the mistakes of others, it is another to have an add that says" let me teach you to not end up like this" using an Officers death on his video cam as a motivator to take his courses. That ad is an exploitation of that officers death. If he had a whole different page as a memorial to the Officer with the video, it would have had the advertisement effect he was obviously after without the low class asshat attitude the current page has. I think it's disgusting. the fact that it is still there pisses me off. |
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And my give a shit meter is flat lining, fuck you piazza, and fuck anyone who thinks his ad is ok. I think anyone who carries a firearm as part of their job needs to watch that video. Its horrific and I cant express enough pity for the fallen officer. But hed be alive right now if he had had the proper training for such a confrontation. This only helps prove that you need the right mindset as well as the proper training to do these types of jobs. This aint the 9-5 that doesnt require much brain power. Failure to be able to think on your feet and react quickly can be deadly, as we just saw. Exactly I have no problems with that whatsoever. My problem is that hes using the video for monetary gain. Stop screaming, start shooting, is an ad campaign. This guy died because he messed up, and yes I can see showing it in a training class to show all the red flags, and where he should have taken action. The video is truley nerve wracking and it stuck with me for a couple days. I've seen a lot of fucked up things, but this one really got to me. You hear the guy screaming, you hear him begging for his life, you hear the death rattle. He messed up, but he does not deserve to have his death used as an ad campaign to fill the pockets of a chiropractor. so, he's promoting training for people to save their life, and he does that for a living, which makes him gainfully employed, which helps him to stay in business. if Mark Larue had worded his introduction to the same video but used it as an example as to what "can" happen if your not properly trained, I think the responses would be a lot different. I see a lot of people getting their panties in a wad because some don't like front sights business model. |
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And my give a shit meter is flat lining, fuck you piazza, and fuck anyone who thinks his ad is ok. Here's to a fuck you. While the ad may be in poor taste/judgement, it does send a message of shock and hopefully that message is heard. Just because you have basic markmanship skills and carry a gun does not equate to being prepared. |
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can someone link the vid? i have never heard about any of this before now Trust me, you don't want to see it. Why not? Is there not SO MUCH to be learned from this video? We all saw what was comming, shit the guy went back to his truck and was loading a fucking rifle, and the officer thought words would stop the situation? That old guy should have been shot long before he got to the point of aiming a rife at the officer, but somewhere the training was flawed, and the cop paid the ultimate price. We need to ALL see that and know that there is evil in the world, and you cannot reason with evil. If you say step back 100 times, 103 won't get a better reaction. |
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And my give a shit meter is flat lining, fuck you piazza, and fuck anyone who thinks his ad is ok. I think anyone who carries a firearm as part of their job needs to watch that video. Its horrific and I cant express enough pity for the fallen officer. But hed be alive right now if he had had the proper training for such a confrontation. This only helps prove that you need the right mindset as well as the proper training to do these types of jobs. This aint the 9-5 that doesnt require much brain power. Failure to be able to think on your feet and react quickly can be deadly, as we just saw. Exactly I have no problems with that whatsoever. My problem is that hes using the video for monetary gain. Stop screaming, start shooting, is an ad campaign. This guy died because he messed up, and yes I can see showing it in a training class to show all the red flags, and where he should have taken action. The video is truley nerve wracking and it stuck with me for a couple days. I've seen a lot of fucked up things, but this one really got to me. You hear the guy screaming, you hear him begging for his life, you hear the death rattle. He messed up, but he does not deserve to have his death used as an ad campaign to fill the pockets of a chiropractor. so, he's promoting training for people to save their life, and he does that for a living, which makes him gainfully employed, which helps him to stay in business. if Mark Larue had worded his introduction to the same video but used it as an example as to what "can" happen if your not properly trained, I think the responses would be a lot different. I see a lot of people getting their panties in a wad because some don't like front sights business model. Nobody is denying it's a valuable lesson to be learned especially for someone that is on the job. the problem is the way it was presented. No respect for the fallen Officer. If Front Sight had edited the video and stopped it at the first round the BG shot and used it as an advertisement, I would not have a problem with that. The way it is being exploited with the death of the Officer for all to hear to drum up business is disgusting. |
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Question. Once he got to the situation where the driver went back to the pickup and got his gun was he justified in shooting the driver once he saw the gun? Just trying to learn from this. Oh and I think it's wrong to use the video for promotional purposes. Yes. |
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Question. Once he got to the situation where the driver went back to the pickup and got his gun was he justified in shooting the driver once he saw the gun? Just trying to learn from this. Oh and I think it's wrong to use the video for promotional purposes. Yes. Good to know. That would have been my mostly untrained move. I think. |
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It seems a very vocal minority of law enforcement types have taken offense to my blog post below.
I say a very vocal minority because for every 100 or so positive responses I have received from law enforcement officers around the country, thanking me for this post, I have received a nasty e-mail from someone in law enforcement demanding that I remove the post and immediately apologize for exploiting the death of a fallen officer for Front Sight's profit. Well, here is my response to those who were offended and have bullied their way on to chat rooms and forums to raise an outrage where there is none. #1. I'm not the one who created, produced or edited the video in question. #2. I'm not the one who released it to public domain by placing it on You Tube and other video sharing sites. #3. I did not even search it out. It has been sent to me numerous times over the years by my law enforcement and private citizen students asking me to share it with other students as a teaching tool of what not to do in a lethal encounter. #4. Nowhere in the video or this blog do I identify any individual officer or department, nor do I give any back story or epilogue that would identify or harm the image of the individuals or department involved. Ironically, only those who are demanding that I remove this video are guilty of identifying the officer, his family and his department in their inflammatory demands and outrageous accusations. #5. The title, "Stop Screaming, Start Shooting" refers to the repeated screaming of commands by the officer when he clearly should have stopped screaming commands and started shooting. The title does not refer to his screams that followed during the gun fight. #6. The demand by those law enforcement types that I immediately remove this blog and apologize for exploiting the death of an officer for profit, smacks of censorship and double standard. There are hundreds of violent crimes caught on video and 911 audios on the Internet from "for profit" sites (including law enforcement sites) where private citizens are injured or killed due to their lack of good judgment, tactics, and marksmanship, yet you do not see these same law enforcement types demanding that those videos be removed. #7. As far as being a private, "for profit" training organization, which for some odd reason also seems to offend the vocal minority, may I state that a police officer or any employee of a government agency or even a non-profit organization who ACCEPTS A PAYCHECK is working "for profit." #8. Am I sorry for the officer involved? Absolutely. I am sorry this officer did not receive the proper training and field supervision he needed to have the mindset, tactics and marksmanship skills to win a lethal encounter. Had he received proper training in mindset, tactics and marksmanship, he would be alive today. THAT is the reason and the ONLY reason why this blog was posted and why Front Sight provides special training offers attached to the blogs. #9. Front Sight has a 14 year history of providing private citizens and law enforcement alike with a level of training that exceeds law enforcement and military standards without any boot camp mentality or drill instructors attitudes. To date, hundreds of thousands of people, private citizens and law enforcement alike have benefited from our training. Our post-course surveys prove 99.5% of our students love us and we welcome them back with our special offers and lifetime memberships. The other one half of 1 percent NOBODY can make happy as they look for the negative in anything positive and disrupt everyone else. We encourage the vocal minority to look for their training elsewhere. #10. See the video blog post below that had more forwards and bookmarks than any blog we have ever posted. Because Front Sight's purpose is to positively change the image of gun ownership by providing responsible citizens and law enforcement alike with a level of training that exceeds law enforcement and military standards, also see the special offer below the video to provide a lifetime of training for citizens and law enforcements officers alike. Training to protect you and your family so you will never become a victim due to lack of the proper mindset, tactics, or marksmanship skills. Here is the original blog post that prompted the vocal minority to try to create an inflammatory situation where this was none... Hey, fuckhead doctor or chiropractic Piazza: The reason you don't get more negative responses is that lots of us in the firearm world have written you off as a fucking bloviating ass with narcissistic tendencies. Merry Christmas and tell the Thetans I said 'Hi', cockbreath. John ETA/PS: NOBODY and I mean fucking NOBODY (except ass kissing sycophants) are emailing him support and encouragement. He's a disreputable "businessman" and has little respect for the law. It's a wonder he hasn't been charged and convicted of financial crimes, frankly. |
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And my give a shit meter is flat lining, fuck you piazza, and fuck anyone who thinks his ad is ok. I think anyone who carries a firearm as part of their job needs to watch that video. Its horrific and I cant express enough pity for the fallen officer. But hed be alive right now if he had had the proper training for such a confrontation. This only helps prove that you need the right mindset as well as the proper training to do these types of jobs. This aint the 9-5 that doesnt require much brain power. Failure to be able to think on your feet and react quickly can be deadly, as we just saw. Exactly I have no problems with that whatsoever. My problem is that hes using the video for monetary gain. Stop screaming, start shooting, is an ad campaign. This guy died because he messed up, and yes I can see showing it in a training class to show all the red flags, and where he should have taken action. The video is truley nerve wracking and it stuck with me for a couple days. I've seen a lot of fucked up things, but this one really got to me. You hear the guy screaming, you hear him begging for his life, you hear the death rattle. He messed up, but he does not deserve to have his death used as an ad campaign to fill the pockets of a chiropractor. I have the opposite take. This video is gripping and makes you stop dead in your tracks and consider your level of training. When viewed by someone who doesnt 'get it', it serves as a wake up call. It is likely to save a life that otherwise might have repeated the same mistakes. Most importantly it wakes up those of our coworkers who treat the job nonchalantly(sp?). I think I might have gone another way with the ad campaign though. |
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It seems a very vocal minority of law enforcement types have taken offense to my blog post below.
#3. I did not even search it out. It has been sent to me numerous times over the years by my law enforcement and private citizen students asking me to share it with other students as a teaching tool of what not to do in a lethal encounter. Here is the original blog post that prompted the vocal minority to try to create an inflammatory situation where this was none... |
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He'd go a long way by changing the title he uses and placing the video somewhere else on his site. You can still use a video for training purposes without appearing to MMQB an incident.
Its a bit presumptuous of him to assume that the deceased didn't get decent training; as has been stated in other threads, the officer had recently been on the carpet, and that must have weighed on his mind when he had this encounter. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And my give a shit meter is flat lining, fuck you piazza, and fuck anyone who thinks his ad is ok. I think anyone who carries a firearm as part of their job needs to watch that video. Its horrific and I cant express enough pity for the fallen officer. But hed be alive right now if he had had the proper training for such a confrontation. This only helps prove that you need the right mindset as well as the proper training to do these types of jobs. This aint the 9-5 that doesnt require much brain power. Failure to be able to think on your feet and react quickly can be deadly, as we just saw. Exactly I have no problems with that whatsoever. My problem is that hes using the video for monetary gain. Stop screaming, start shooting, is an ad campaign. This guy died because he messed up, and yes I can see showing it in a training class to show all the red flags, and where he should have taken action. The video is truley nerve wracking and it stuck with me for a couple days. I've seen a lot of fucked up things, but this one really got to me. You hear the guy screaming, you hear him begging for his life, you hear the death rattle. He messed up, but he does not deserve to have his death used as an ad campaign to fill the pockets of a chiropractor. I agree, but... there is more to the story than "he messed up" or "he'd be alive he'd been trained". Try to find the whole episode of "In the Line of Fire". |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Question. Once he got to the situation where the driver went back to the pickup and got his gun was he justified in shooting the driver once he saw the gun? Just trying to learn from this. Oh and I think it's wrong to use the video for promotional purposes. Yes. Good to know. That would have been my mostly untrained move. I think. I call that "common sense" |
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100 good to 1 bad, my ASS. The guy is just a shyster, and he deserves every ounce of scorn he receives for attempting to use Deputy Dinkheller's death as a means of creating business for himself. "America's Millionaire Patriot" has his head lodged firmly where the sun does not shine. |