Posted: 2/4/2010 8:39:29 AM EDT
http://www.gizmag.com/go/7024/
The technology in itself doesn't bother me so much. The following quote does: At the same time, every plate recognition is logged in a central computer so that if a vehicle is involved in an offence, all prior sightings of the vehicle with time and GPS coordinates can be retrieved.
Or, in other words, we know where you are, where you've been and who you know. In a serious enough offense, the citizenry will cooperate and produce whatever's necessary to apprehend a criminal. |
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http://www.gizmag.com/go/7024/ http://www.gizmag.com/pictures/hero/7024_22030752040.jpg The technology in itself doesn't bother me so much. The following quote does: At the same time, every plate recognition is logged in a central computer so that if a vehicle is involved in an offence, all prior sightings of the vehicle with time and GPS coordinates can be retrieved.
Or, in other words, we know where you are, where you've been and who you know. In a serious enough offense, the citizenry will cooperate and produce whatever's necessary to apprehend a criminal. Agree with you all around. |
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If you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.  I follow the sarcasm. But, as a serious response, it could make you a suspect by association or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I believe wholeheartedly in lots and lots of private surveillance (e.g., homeowners and personal vehicles with cameras on them that are owned/controlled by the owner). In the event of a true crime, the controller of that surveillance will volunarily give it to law enforcement. |
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hell, those have been around for a while. The use them in New York city and just drive down the streets looking for hits. Sooooooooo, that makes it OK? It is Big Brother @ it's finest. Freedom lost, I see it as an Illegal shearch. "If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." makes me sick. Free men are not survailed or have their where, when and how data logged for future use / prosecution, by the GOV. That is the tactic of a police state. The Constitution was written to stop the Gov. from doing things to us, not what we have today. I could write a whole page about this issue..................... 
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Why wouldn't a criminal just steal a plate off another car? Or just steal the whole car? That's one of the good things - if the plate, or the car, is in the database as being stolen, it'll trigger a hit. Kinda the whole point to the system, actually. Tinfoil hat concerns notwithstanding. |
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hell, those have been around for a while. The use them in New York city and just drive down the streets looking for hits. Sooooooooo, that makes it OK? It is Big Brother @ it's finest. Freedom lost, I see it as an Illegal shearch. "If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." makes me sick. Free men are not survailed or have their where, when and how data logged for future use / prosecution, by the GOV. That is the tactic of a police state. The Constitution was written to stop the Gov. from doing things to us, not what we have today. I could write a whole page about this issue..................... And based on what you've written above, it'd be a whole page of fail. It's not only NOT an illegal search, it's not a search at all - what expectation of privacy do you have in the government-issued, publicly displayed license plate on your car that's parked in a public place like a parking lot, or being driven on a public road? |
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http://www.gizmag.com/go/7024/ http://www.gizmag.com/pictures/hero/7024_22030752040.jpg The technology in itself doesn't bother me so much. The following quote does: At the same time, every plate recognition is logged in a central computer so that if a vehicle is involved in an offence, all prior sightings of the vehicle with time and GPS coordinates can be retrieved.
Or, in other words, we know where you are, where you've been and who you know. In a serious enough offense, the citizenry will cooperate and produce whatever's necessary to apprehend a criminal. Panopticon |
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hell, those have been around for a while. The use them in New York city and just drive down the streets looking for hits. Sooooooooo, that makes it OK? It is Big Brother @ it's finest. Freedom lost, I see it as an Illegal shearch. "If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." makes me sick. Free men are not survailed or have their where, when and how data logged for future use / prosecution, by the GOV. That is the tactic of a police state. The Constitution was written to stop the Gov. from doing things to us, not what we have today. I could write a whole page about this issue..................... Not an illegal search. As much as I don't like it - tags are clearly plain view. |
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So, how long before a blocking shield is sold for $19.99?  I guaran-fucking-tee there will be a provision in the law that makes any effort to thwart the technology a crime. So what - the spray I about impossible to detect. You're not suggesting I just give up are you 
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hell, those have been around for a while. The use them in New York city and just drive down the streets looking for hits. Sooooooooo, that makes it OK? It is Big Brother @ it's finest. Freedom lost, I see it as an Illegal shearch. "If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." makes me sick. Free men are not survailed or have their where, when and how data logged for future use / prosecution, by the GOV. That is the tactic of a police state. The Constitution was written to stop the Gov. from doing things to us, not what we have today. I could write a whole page about this issue..................... And based on what you've written above, it'd be a whole page of fail. It's not only NOT an illegal search, it's not a search at all - what expectation of privacy do you have in the government-issued, publicly displayed license plate on your car that's parked in a public place like a parking lot, or being driven on a public road? If it's not a search, then what is it? Search to me means looking for something. Is that not what they're doing? |
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hell, those have been around for a while. The use them in New York city and just drive down the streets looking for hits. Sooooooooo, that makes it OK? It is Big Brother @ it's finest. Freedom lost, I see it as an Illegal shearch. "If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." makes me sick. Free men are not survailed or have their where, when and how data logged for future use / prosecution, by the GOV. That is the tactic of a police state. The Constitution was written to stop the Gov. from doing things to us, not what we have today. I could write a whole page about this issue..................... And based on what you've written above, it'd be a whole page of fail. It's not only NOT an illegal search, it's not a search at all - what expectation of privacy do you have in the government-issued, publicly displayed license plate on your car that's parked in a public place like a parking lot, or being driven on a public road? If it's not a search, then what is it? Search to me means looking for something. Is that not what they're doing? Observing something in plain sight is not a search. If your tag was closed in your trunk it would be a search, seeing it as you drive past is not. |
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hell, those have been around for a while. The use them in New York city and just drive down the streets looking for hits. Sooooooooo, that makes it OK? It is Big Brother @ it's finest. Freedom lost, I see it as an Illegal shearch. "If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." makes me sick. Free men are not survailed or have their where, when and how data logged for future use / prosecution, by the GOV. That is the tactic of a police state. The Constitution was written to stop the Gov. from doing things to us, not what we have today. I could write a whole page about this issue..................... And based on what you've written above, it'd be a whole page of fail. It's not only NOT an illegal search, it's not a search at all - what expectation of privacy do you have in the government-issued, publicly displayed license plate on your car that's parked in a public place like a parking lot, or being driven on a public road? If it's not a search, then what is it? Search to me means looking for something. Is that not what they're doing? Observing something in plain sight is not a search. If your tag was closed in your trunk it would be a search, seeing it as you drive past is not. Thanks - shining a light into a car may meet the dictionary definition of searching, but not the legal definistion. Things just aren't so simple in law. One exception to the 4th is the "plain view" exception. Otherwise I could be on the South side of street A holding a gun, while an officer is on the opposite side. Just because he looked over and saw me in a criminal act doesn't mean I was siezed or searched. |
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hell, those have been around for a while. The use them in New York city and just drive down the streets looking for hits. Sooooooooo, that makes it OK? It is Big Brother @ it's finest. Freedom lost, I see it as an Illegal shearch. "If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." makes me sick. Free men are not survailed or have their where, when and how data logged for future use / prosecution, by the GOV. That is the tactic of a police state. The Constitution was written to stop the Gov. from doing things to us, not what we have today. I could write a whole page about this issue..................... And based on what you've written above, it'd be a whole page of fail. It's not only NOT an illegal search, it's not a search at all - what expectation of privacy do you have in the government-issued, publicly displayed license plate on your car that's parked in a public place like a parking lot, or being driven on a public road? If it's not a search, then what is it? Search to me means looking for something. Is that not what they're doing? Observing something in plain sight is not a search. If your tag was closed in your trunk it would be a search, seeing it as you drive past is not. The information associated with the tag is not in plain sight. Only the tag is. |
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Why wouldn't a criminal just steal a plate off another car? Or just steal the whole car? That's one of the good things - if the plate, or the car, is in the database as being stolen, it'll trigger a hit. Kinda the whole point to the system, actually. Tinfoil hat concerns notwithstanding. I wasn't taking up issue w/ the automatic tag reading as much as I was the logging and tracking of the plates. Every time you pass a cop or traffic camera, your tags are logged. In other words, you're being tracked. |
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The information associated with the tag is not in plain sight. Only the tag is. There's still no expectation of privacy in any of that information. No expectation of privacy = no unreasonable search. Maybe to you. Oh, so YOU expect the information YOU give to the government to get a license plate issued to you to be private, and not accessible to oh, say, the government? |
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Why wouldn't a criminal just steal a plate off another car? Or just steal the whole car? That's one of the good things - if the plate, or the car, is in the database as being stolen, it'll trigger a hit. Kinda the whole point to the system, actually. Tinfoil hat concerns notwithstanding. I wasn't taking up issue w/ the automatic tag reading as much as I was the logging and tracking of the plates. Every time you pass a cop or traffic camera, your tags are logged. In other words, you're being tracked. Not just that, I'm not comfortable with the practice of license plate bingo, where they go around inputting random license plates into the computer until they get a hit. If you're not directly observed committing a crime, or there is reason to believe there is a crime a foot, then your personal information shouldn't be accessed. In America at least. |
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The information associated with the tag is not in plain sight. Only the tag is. There's still no expectation of privacy in any of that information. No expectation of privacy = no unreasonable search. Maybe to you. Oh, so YOU expect the information YOU give to the government to get a license plate issued to you to be private, and not accessible to oh, say, the government? I'd prefer a middle man to be in between the collection and use of it. That middle man is the 4th Amendment. |
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Quoted: I think the biggest issue is that they would log that info, creating the ability to effectively track you in some cases. I think we'd all agree here that police or any one having GPS data of your travels if you are a law abiding citizen is wrong and unreasonable. The problem here is this system, as it is set up in the article, allows a primative form of just that...tracking of just regular law abiding citizens. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why wouldn't a criminal just steal a plate off another car? Or just steal the whole car? That's one of the good things - if the plate, or the car, is in the database as being stolen, it'll trigger a hit. Kinda the whole point to the system, actually. Tinfoil hat concerns notwithstanding. I wasn't taking up issue w/ the automatic tag reading as much as I was the logging and tracking of the plates. Every time you pass a cop or traffic camera, your tags are logged. In other words, you're being tracked. Not just that, I'm not comfortable with the practice of license plate bingo, where they go around inputting random license plates into the computer until they get a hit. If you're not directly observed committing a crime, or there is reason to believe there is a crime a foot, then your personal information shouldn't be accessed. In America at least. I think it may be more palatable (not that I agree with it) if it runs numbers against a known set of stolen cars, etc and then once your number is read, scanned and it DOESN'T match, your number is dumped from memory and no private info is accessed, only the public info (your license number). |
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The information associated with the tag is not in plain sight. Only the tag is. There's still no expectation of privacy in any of that information. No expectation of privacy = no unreasonable search. Maybe to you. Oh, so YOU expect the information YOU give to the government to get a license plate issued to you to be private, and not accessible to oh, say, the government? I'd prefer a middle man to be in between the collection and use of it. That middle man is the 4th Amendment. The 4th Amendment is concerned SOLELY with the collection of it. Seriously, save your angst and concern for a time when actual rights that you really have are actually being violated. There's plenty of that going on. This isn't that situation. |
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hell, those have been around for a while. The use them in New York city and just drive down the streets looking for hits. Sooooooooo, that makes it OK? It is Big Brother @ it's finest. Freedom lost, I see it as an Illegal shearch. "If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." makes me sick. Free men are not survailed or have their where, when and how data logged for future use / prosecution, by the GOV. That is the tactic of a police state. The Constitution was written to stop the Gov. from doing things to us, not what we have today. I could write a whole page about this issue..................... And based on what you've written above, it'd be a whole page of fail. It's not only NOT an illegal search, it's not a search at all - what expectation of privacy do you have in the government-issued, publicly displayed license plate on your car that's parked in a public place like a parking lot, or being driven on a public road? If it's not a search, then what is it? Search to me means looking for something. Is that not what they're doing? Observing something in plain sight is not a search. If your tag was closed in your trunk it would be a search, seeing it as you drive past is not. The information associated with the tag is not in plain sight. Only the tag is. I don't think you grasp what the legal definition of "search" is. Running a tag number is not a search. |
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It troubles me that it is not readily identified how we, as a society, have furthered the journey from "Peace Officer" to "Law Enforcement".
The mission of the Peace Officer is just that - to keep the peace, with the understanding that the peace keeping mission requires operation within the boundaries of laws and investigative techniques which fall under Constitutional guidelines. The mission of the Law Enforcement Officer has changed from a peace keeping mission to one of enforcing (as the name implies) laws, statutes, and ordinances, that the majority have been compiled for the primary purpose of revenue generation, under the guise of public safety. How do we get back to a more reasonably society, and when do we install the office of "Constitution Enforcement Officer"? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: hell, those have been around for a while. The use them in New York city and just drive down the streets looking for hits. Sooooooooo, that makes it OK? It is Big Brother @ it's finest. Freedom lost, I see it as an Illegal shearch. "If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." makes me sick. Free men are not survailed or have their where, when and how data logged for future use / prosecution, by the GOV. That is the tactic of a police state. The Constitution was written to stop the Gov. from doing things to us, not what we have today. I could write a whole page about this issue..................... And based on what you've written above, it'd be a whole page of fail. It's not only NOT an illegal search, it's not a search at all - what expectation of privacy do you have in the government-issued, publicly displayed license plate on your car that's parked in a public place like a parking lot, or being driven on a public road? I'm glad you see things that way. I'm starting a business where we will install these onto privately owned vehicles. We can then have displays in peoples cars that will route you around police cars. |
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Quoted: They are infrared. The LEDs emit IR light, the camera captures the reflections. Those plastic plate protector things are pretty good at boogering it up. Quoted: Coming from someone that works on a license plate recognition system/software, its not all its cracked up to be. It can be highly accurate at times, and miserable at others. Do tell us what affects it adversely.  |
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hell, those have been around for a while. The use them in New York city and just drive down the streets looking for hits. Sooooooooo, that makes it OK? It is Big Brother @ it's finest. Freedom lost, I see it as an Illegal shearch. "If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about." makes me sick. Free men are not survailed or have their where, when and how data logged for future use / prosecution, by the GOV. That is the tactic of a police state. The Constitution was written to stop the Gov. from doing things to us, not what we have today. I could write a whole page about this issue..................... Not an illegal search. As much as I don't like it - tags are clearly plain view. But it is collecting evidence for future use..If need be..From someone who hasn't done a thing.. YET,right? |
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As described in the article the system has two functions.
Function #1 is to compare the plates to a database of known stolen (or otherwise flagged) vehicles. IMO this is perfectly a perfectly legitimate crime fighting tool. Function #2 is to store ALL the plates viewed in a database along with your GPS coordinates on the off chance that you commit some crime in the future. This isn’t just wrong, it’s outrageous. |
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You guys shouldn't be worried about the cameras on cop cars as much as the cameras at intersections and freeway offramps. They are EVERYWHERE in SE Michigan and are spreading around the state.
They have been used to catch stolen cars, and used to track the guy down that owned the farm where that guy got killed by getting ass-fucked by the horse in WA state. There was a documentary about it and the dude that died was a secret squirrel antenna designer for Boeing and was high enough profile for the fedgov to use the camera to track the farm owner from the ER when he dropped the guy off. There is a really good demo on Youtube of the LEO vehicle system's capabilities from a department in SoCal. It will really raise your eyebrow to see it. I'm really uncomfortable with the .gov being able to enter my plate number and know within a short distance where my vehicle is, or have it track my movements. I'd rather the car thief and horse fucker helper get away than have big brother with his boot on my neck. |