Posted: 1/8/2010 1:11:00 PM EDT
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What did we do before the fed existed? Do we need it? What would happen if it went away? What would take it's place and what would be the effect?
I'm not trying to start any fights, I just really don't understand what the fed does and why it exists. |
The Fed has existed since the beginning of the Union. It has just taken more and more over the years. And now it has taken so much from people here and in other countries that it is on the verge of failure. 
Obama is an Idiot and I wish that he would quit proving it.
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What did we do before the fed existed? Do we need it? What would happen if it went away? What would take it's place and what would be the effect? I'm not trying to start any fights, I just really don't understand what the fed does and why it exists. Do you really want to know? America, Freedom to Fascism Spend some time and watch this video. |
| We currently operate under the 3 rd Central Bank of the United States. The first two banks failed primarily due to centralization and political control. Our current Federal Reserve System is by far the best and most efficient. The whole trick is they must anticipate and make adjustments to the economy before the problems start to exist due to the ever changing business markets and political medaling. It is tough for have those who must out guess those who are trying to exploit the situation for their benefit. Our current system is not perfect, but it is by far the best. |
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Quoted: What did we do before the fed existed? Do we need it? What would happen if it went away? What would take it's place and what would be the effect? I'm not trying to start any fights, I just really don't understand what the fed does and why it exists. By Fed you mean Federal Reserve? From Washington to Madison, we had the 1st Bank of the US... Which was 'The Fed, 1700s style'... Under Madison, Congress let the law authorizing the 1st Bank expire.... After this, we had a war with Britain (1812) & the economy went to shit.... President Madison signed the 2nd Bank of the US into law 5 years after the 1st Bank had been allowed to expire.... Both the 1st and 2nd Bank were 100% PRIVATE institutions. The 2nd Bank of the US 'lasted' until it was unconstitutionally sabotaged by President Jackson (moron), resulting in the worst period of economic chaos in US history. The recessions/depressions (often called 'panics') of this period were MORE FREQUENT and MORE SEVERE than they have ever been since 1913. Starting with the one Jackson caused when his methods of 'sabotaging' the 2BOUS backfired, & his corrupt cronies lost the money speculating on real-estate (Our first 'S&L crisis' effectively - politically connected idots were given control of money that should have been in the BoUS, and they behaved... idioticly...).... In 1913, the Federal Reserve was brought into existence under President Wilson, thus bringing an end to the chaos & restoring a proper financial system within the United States. The Federal Reserve and the Gold Standard are 2 separate topics, as the US remained 'on the gold standard' for DECADES after the Fed was established (eg, until Richard Nixon) |
| So is the Fed(federal reserve bank) private, semi private or a public function? If there were no Fed, what would be the effect? Is the Fed primarily a "cushioner"? Meaning that it takes out the great highs and lows. Do they set monetary policy? And if so, how? Shouldn't that be a function of the treasury? The Fed seems to be the least understood entity in the entire world. Why is that? Is it necessary for them to be so secretive to safeguard the money supply? |
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Quoted: So is the Fed(federal reserve bank) private, semi private or a public function? If there were no Fed, what would be the effect? Is the Fed primarily a "cushioner"? Meaning that it takes out the great highs and lows. Do they set monetary policy? And if so, how? Shouldn't that be a function of the treasury? The Fed seems to be the least understood entity in the entire world. Why is that? Is it necessary for them to be so secretive to safeguard the money supply? 1) They are semi-private.... The folks 'in charge' are Federal officers (appointed to irrevocable 10 year terms, to keep the government from messing with the money), but all of the stuff below them is private... 2) The Fed is there to control the money supply, and part of that includes being a 'cushioner' of sorts - by adjusting the available supply of money (through interest rates, NOT PRINTING) they can 'speed up' (add money, allow more inflation. by lowering rates & making credit cheaper/easier to obtain) or 'slow down' (destrtoy money, slow inflation, by making credit more expensive/harder to obtain) economic activity. 3) No, this should not be a function of the Treasury Dept - doing so would make the money supply subject to political whims, which has been 'bad news' in the past (during the post-Jackson/pre-Wilson era). 4) Yes, the secrecy is required to keep the money supply safe from the politicians. |
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http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
I wonder why this starts in 1913? |
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The dollar has lost 97% of it's value since the fed was instituted. This was planned in secret on jekyll island by the top bankers and industrialists. I'd like to hear more about this. If you have any details I'd be very interested in seeing the correlation between the value and the Fed. |
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Reincarnation of the Federal Reserve, Jekyll Island GA. Even had a duck hunt celebrating the Federal Reserve Act. Nice. Then came Bretton Woods of 1944(?) which died at the hands of Nixon in 1971, no more gold standard. Nice. The promise was no more inflated Fake Reserve Notes. Ok no more tin foil, really. 
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Quoted: Quoted: The dollar has lost 97% of it's value since the fed was instituted. This was planned in secret on jekyll island by the top bankers and industrialists. I'd like to hear more about this. If you have any details I'd be very interested in seeing the correlation between the value and the Fed. Don't hold your breath. |
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Quoted: It is very interesting. In my macro econ class, we looked at unemployment per capita from the last two hundred years, and recessions in the old days were much more severe than modern recessions after the great depression. Quoted: What did we do before the fed existed? Do we need it? What would happen if it went away? What would take it's place and what would be the effect? I'm not trying to start any fights, I just really don't understand what the fed does and why it exists. By Fed you mean Federal Reserve? From Washington to Madison, we had the 1st Bank of the US... Which was 'The Fed, 1700s style'... Under Madison, Congress let the law authorizing the 1st Bank expire.... After this, we had a war with Britain (1812) & the economy went to shit.... President Madison signed the 2nd Bank of the US into law 5 years after the 1st Bank had been allowed to expire.... Both the 1st and 2nd Bank were 100% PRIVATE institutions. The 2nd Bank of the US 'lasted' until it was unconstitutionally sabotaged by President Jackson (moron), resulting in the worst period of economic chaos in US history. The recessions/depressions (often called 'panics') of this period were MORE FREQUENT and MORE SEVERE than they have ever been since 1913. Starting with the one Jackson caused when his methods of 'sabotaging' the 2BOUS backfired, & his corrupt cronies lost the money speculating on real-estate (Our first 'S&L crisis' effectively - politically connected idots were given control of money that should have been in the BoUS, and they behaved... idioticly...).... In 1913, the Federal Reserve was brought into existence under President Wilson, thus bringing an end to the chaos & restoring a proper financial system within the United States. The Federal Reserve and the Gold Standard are 2 separate topics, as the US remained 'on the gold standard' for DECADES after the Fed was established (eg, until Richard Nixon) |
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Quoted: Quoted: So is the Fed(federal reserve bank) private, semi private or a public function? If there were no Fed, what would be the effect? Is the Fed primarily a "cushioner"? Meaning that it takes out the great highs and lows. Do they set monetary policy? And if so, how? Shouldn't that be a function of the treasury? The Fed seems to be the least understood entity in the entire world. Why is that? Is it necessary for them to be so secretive to safeguard the money supply? 1) They are semi-private.... The folks 'in charge' are Federal officers (appointed to irrevocable 10 year terms, to keep the government from messing with the money), but all of the stuff below them is private... 2) The Fed is there to control the money supply, and part of that includes being a 'cushioner' of sorts - by adjusting the available supply of money (through interest rates, NOT PRINTING) they can 'speed up' (add money, allow more inflation. by lowering rates & making credit cheaper/easier to obtain) or 'slow down' (destrtoy money, slow inflation, by making credit more expensive/harder to obtain) economic activity. 3) No, this should not be a function of the Treasury Dept - doing so would make the money supply subject to political whims, which has been 'bad news' in the past (during the post-Jackson/pre-Wilson era). 4) Yes, the secrecy is required to keep the money supply safe from the politicians. Good points. Autonomy from the federal government is what prevents short lived "booms" during election cycles from tampering with the money supply, and thus helps keep inflation at a healthy level. For those who complain that the dollar has lost value, the actual value isn't terribly important. A steady inflation rate is what allows the labor markets to clear in recessionary times. If someone makes too much money, it is easier to keep his wages constant while there is inflation than to cut their wages. That is the reasoning behind 2-3% inflation per year. |
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Before the Fed we had things like bank runs, depressions, rampant fraud and corruption. You know, fun stuff. Not saying the Fed is perfect, but its better than anything else we've come up with. ... caused by JP Morgan and other wealthy bankers who then had privately owned gold confiscated for the good of the country and the Federal Reserve voted on while many lawmakers were home at Christmas. You know, fun stuff. |
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I'm always amazed by how many people wish money grew more valuable every year––––––-they never seem to realize that most people wouldn't have any, and we'd be in abject squalor for the most part.
Congress could mint more money whenever they had the gold or silver to do so. [quoteThis 97% loss in value of the dollar, what is that based on? Was that compared to gold or some other commodity?][/quote] mostly gold ,but cost of living also, food and manufactured goods are much cheaper now do to massproduction and technology, so a direct corrilation is difficult. |
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Quoted: We currently operate under the 3 rd Central Bank of the United States. The first two banks failed primarily due to centralization and political control. Incorrect. The first Bank of the United States did not 'fail', Congress declined to renew it. The Second Bank of the United States was unconstitutionally KILLED by Andrew Jackson 're-appropriating' funds & transferring them to 'banks' conveniently controlled by his cronies. Neither of these banks 'economically failed'. |
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Quoted: The dollar has lost 97% of it's value since the fed was instituted. This was planned in secret on jekyll island by the top bankers and industrialists. Bullshit. The only way you get that  97% figure is to use gold as a deflator.Gold is NOT a valid deflator, as it is deflationary in nature & thus exaggerates the results. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Before the Fed we had things like bank runs, depressions, rampant fraud and corruption. You know, fun stuff. Not saying the Fed is perfect, but its better than anything else we've come up with. ... caused by JP Morgan and other wealthy bankers who then had privately owned gold confiscated for the good of the country and the Federal Reserve voted on while many lawmakers were home at Christmas. You know, fun stuff. Nice try with the historical distortion... Federal Reserve Act: 1913, Woodrow Wilson Gold Confiscation: 1930-something, FDR. Gold Confiscation had NOTHING to do with the FED, and everything to do with FDR propping up the Gold Standard. |
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Quoted: I'm always amazed by how many people wish money grew more valuable every year––––––-they never seem to realize that most people wouldn't have any, and we'd be in abject squalor for the most part. Congress could mint more money whenever they had the gold or silver to do so. [quoteThis 97% loss in value of the dollar, what is that based on? Was that compared to gold or some other commodity?] mostly gold ,but cost of living also, food and manufactured goods are much cheaper now do to massproduction and technology, so a direct corrilation is difficult. And that's why the 97% figure is BULLSHIT. If you do the math with regard to: A) Gold Mined over Time vs B) Population Growth over Time C) Industrial Demand for Gold over Time it is plainly obvious that gold does NOT have a stable value, but rather has been steadily increasing in 'theoretical value' over time... V = D/S Where 'V' = change in Value in 'theoretical value units', D = change in Aggregate Demand, and S = change in Aggregate Supply. The equation for 'gold value', is one where 'D' is greater than 'S' over time - consistently... And that means that the 'theoretical value of gold' should be increasing even if all other things (USD value) were constant. Thus, the value of gold CANNOT be used to 'deflate' the dollar, as it will exaggerate inflation But that's what the Anti-FED kooks want - to exaggerate inflation, because they think it helps their point |
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We currently operate under the 3 rd Central Bank of the United States. The first two banks failed primarily due to centralization and political control. Our current Federal Reserve System is by far the best and most efficient. The whole trick is they must anticipate and make adjustments to the economy before the problems start to exist due to the ever changing business markets and political medaling. It is tough for have those who must out guess those who are trying to exploit the situation for their benefit. Our current system is not perfect, but it is by far the best. The Second Bank of the United States failed because Andrew Jackson refused to renew its charter. That's one thing old hickory did right when he was a politician. |
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Quoted: Quoted: We currently operate under the 3 rd Central Bank of the United States. The first two banks failed primarily due to centralization and political control. Our current Federal Reserve System is by far the best and most efficient. The whole trick is they must anticipate and make adjustments to the economy before the problems start to exist due to the ever changing business markets and political medaling. It is tough for have those who must out guess those who are trying to exploit the situation for their benefit. Our current system is not perfect, but it is by far the best. The Second Bank of the United States failed because Andrew Jackson refused to renew its charter. That's one thing old hickory did right when he was a politician. Wrong. It was more than 'refusing to renew the Charter' - he actually violated the Constitution by usurping the House of Representatives appropriations power, and KILLED the 2nd BoUS, and with it the US Economy of the day - all to reward/enrich some cronies. He was a corrupt & incompetent piece of SHIT - the only president in US history likely to be 'still worse' than Obama at the end of 0's term... It was not the 'right' thing to do - the 'Right' thing to do, was to leave the bank - authorized/signed-into-law by James Madison after it became obvious that letting the 1st Bank expire was a mistake - alone. Jackson's idiocy, power-lust & greed screwed the US economy for decades to come. I'll trust 'The Father of the Constitution' over a corrupt rabble-rouser any day, thank you... |
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Andrew Jackson's veto of legislation authorizing a new 2nd bank charter.
In short, his veto decision (reserved for all US presidents) was not unconstitutional. 
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Before the Fed we had things like bank runs, depressions, rampant fraud and corruption. You know, fun stuff. Not saying the Fed is perfect, but its better than anything else we've come up with. ... caused by JP Morgan and other wealthy bankers who then had privately owned gold confiscated for the good of the country and the Federal Reserve voted on while many lawmakers were home at Christmas. You know, fun stuff. Nice try with the historical distortion... Federal Reserve Act: 1913, Woodrow Wilson Gold Confiscation: 1930-something, FDR. Gold Confiscation had NOTHING to do with the FED, and everything to do with FDR propping up the Gold Standard. Uhh, no. Certain "bankers" caused the panic that led to the act of 1913 to create the FED. If I'm not mistaken, which I'm not, Nelson Aldrich pushed through the bill(which other family did he have ties to again, starts with an R?) and it was voted on over Christmas. FDR signed the order to confiscate gold FOR the FED. How can you have the FED in charge of a nations currency when the people have the ability to do what they like with THEIR OWN GOLD. In '33 FDR amended the Trading wit the Enemy Act to making it illegal to "hoard" gold. Once this happened and our government forced citizens to turn in gold(for money issued by the FED of course, you know, paper), the FED had complete control of our currency. Spin this any way you like Dave_A, but your saviors are in fact our greatest enemy. |
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Quoted: Thomas Jefferson was against the creation of the Federal Reserve. Thomas Jefferson was against the creation of the 1st Bank of the United States. He lost that battle, fortunately. He was not alive at the time of the creation of the FED. Further: 1) The quote mentioning 'inflation' and 'deflation', often attributed to Jefferson is clearly a FAKE, as those terms were not in use during his lifetime. 2) Given that Jefferson was IN FRANCE when the Constitution was written, I would personally defer to James Madison's assessment of what is and is not constitutional, with regard to banking. And James Madison personally SIGNED the 2nd Bank of the US into law - so obviously he felt it was Constitutional. |
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Quoted: Andrew Jackson's veto of legislation authorizing a new 2nd bank charter. In short, his veto decision (reserved for all US presidents) was not unconstitutional. I'm not talking about a 'veto decision'... I'm talking about his other actions in regard to 2 BOUS, namely his actions to drive the bank out of business by moving US funds to banks that were 'conveniently' founded/owned by his political cronies. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Before the Fed we had things like bank runs, depressions, rampant fraud and corruption. You know, fun stuff. Not saying the Fed is perfect, but its better than anything else we've come up with. ... caused by JP Morgan and other wealthy bankers who then had privately owned gold confiscated for the good of the country and the Federal Reserve voted on while many lawmakers were home at Christmas. You know, fun stuff. Nice try with the historical distortion... Federal Reserve Act: 1913, Woodrow Wilson Gold Confiscation: 1930-something, FDR. Gold Confiscation had NOTHING to do with the FED, and everything to do with FDR propping up the Gold Standard. Uhh, no. Certain "bankers" caused the panic that led to the act of 1913 to create the FED. If I'm not mistaken, which I'm not, Nelson Aldrich pushed through the bill(which other family did he have ties to again, starts with an R?) and it was voted on over Christmas. FDR signed the order to confiscate gold FOR the FED. How can you have the FED in charge of a nations currency when the people have the ability to do what they like with THEIR OWN GOLD. In '33 FDR amended the Trading wit the Enemy Act to making it illegal to "hoard" gold. Once this happened and our government forced citizens to turn in gold(for money issued by the FED of course, you know, paper), the FED had complete control of our currency. Spin this any way you like Dave_A, but your saviors are in fact our greatest enemy. Complete & utter horseshit.... Gold confiscation was done because you cannot maintain a gold standard AND expand the money supply to the degree needed to break the Depression's deflation - especially when 1930s technology precludes the sort of 'credit-scoring' system we use now (and thus limits the impact of lending on the supply) - unless you have the 'required' amount of gold. It had nothing to do with the FED - people were not generally using gold as currency in 1933, but rather were holding it as an investment like they do now... While some folks like to try and 'spin' the gold confiscation as an effort to 'prop up' the Fed, there is zero historical evidence for this... History points in another direction, namely that what was being propped up, was the gold peg itself... Which was absolutely idiotic, but par for the course for FDR... There is nothing wrong with the FED, nothing 'hostile' about them... Maintaining an adequate & slightly-inflating money supply is critical to the quality of life of mainstream commercial & private America.... It lifts far more boats than it sinks - and the folks who get 'sunk' by inflation do so by their own intransigence & stupidity.... There was something wrong with the FDR admin, attempting to finance the 'recovery' for the have-nots on the backs of the folks who had-some... Anti-bank conspiracy fools, like gold-bugs, have alot of history to ignore to make their positions sound rational.... |
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Quoted: Quoted: The dollar has lost 97% of it's value since the fed was instituted. This was planned in secret on jekyll island by the top bankers and industrialists. If that were the case, The Dollar would be worth a mere $0.13. It's actually worth about $0.77. He's using gold as a deflator, to intentionally exaggerate the amount of inflation that has ocurred. |
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Before the Fed we had things like bank runs, depressions, rampant fraud and corruption. You know, fun stuff. Not saying the Fed is perfect, but its better than anything else we've come up with. ... caused by JP Morgan and other wealthy bankers who then had privately owned gold confiscated for the good of the country and the Federal Reserve voted on while many lawmakers were home at Christmas. You know, fun stuff. Nice try with the historical distortion... Federal Reserve Act: 1913, Woodrow Wilson Gold Confiscation: 1930-something, FDR. Gold Confiscation had NOTHING to do with the FED, and everything to do with FDR propping up the Gold Standard. Uhh, no. Certain "bankers" caused the panic that led to the act of 1913 to create the FED. If I'm not mistaken, which I'm not, Nelson Aldrich pushed through the bill(which other family did he have ties to again, starts with an R?) and it was voted on over Christmas. FDR signed the order to confiscate gold FOR the FED. How can you have the FED in charge of a nations currency when the people have the ability to do what they like with THEIR OWN GOLD. In '33 FDR amended the Trading wit the Enemy Act to making it illegal to "hoard" gold. Once this happened and our government forced citizens to turn in gold(for money issued by the FED of course, you know, paper), the FED had complete control of our currency. Spin this any way you like Dave_A, but your saviors are in fact our greatest enemy. Complete & utter horseshit.... Gold confiscation was done because you cannot maintain a gold standard AND expand the money supply to the degree needed to break the Depression's deflation - especially when 1930s technology precludes the sort of 'credit-scoring' system we use now (and thus limits the impact of lending on the supply) - unless you have the 'required' amount of gold. It had nothing to do with the FED - people were not generally using gold as currency in 1933, but rather were holding it as an investment like they do now... While some folks like to try and 'spin' the gold confiscation as an effort to 'prop up' the Fed, there is zero historical evidence for this... History points in another direction, namely that what was being propped up, was the gold peg itself... Which was absolutely idiotic, but par for the course for FDR... There is nothing wrong with the FED, nothing 'hostile' about them... Maintaining an adequate & slightly-inflating money supply is critical to the quality of life of mainstream commercial & private America.... It lifts far more boats than it sinks - and the folks who get 'sunk' by inflation do so by their own intransigence & stupidity.... There was something wrong with the FDR admin, attempting to finance the 'recovery' for the have-nots on the backs of the folks who had-some... Anti-bank conspiracy fools, like gold-bugs, have alot of history to ignore to make their positions sound rational.... Wow!  You really get angry about this shit!!
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The dollar has lost 97% of it's value since the fed was instituted. This was planned in secret on jekyll island by the top bankers and industrialists. Bullshit. The only way you get that 97% figure is to use gold as a deflator.
Gold is NOT a valid deflator, as it is deflationary in nature & thus exaggerates the results. And again!! |