[ARCHIVED THREAD] - But which 10mm? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/4/2010 5:43:12 AM EDT
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I will be vacationing in bear country this year (black not grizzly), so I figure if I can scare the wife with enough bear stories I can get a 10mm. The question is which? The Glock 20 has a pretty good following, but what else is out there? Also what loads for self defense? Loads for bear? Hell just give me the scoop on 10mm's! Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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I have a G20 and that's what I'd get again. It's the most reliable available and it holds 15 rds of 10mm. The 10mm 1911s are awesome as well, but they only hold 8 rds and I'd personally feel better with 2x as much ammo.
As far as ammo, you want to stick with Double Tap or your reloads. I have some Double Tap for defense and reload everything else I shoot. If you want protection from large animals, I'd get DTs 200 gn XTP or the 200 gn hard cast lead rounds. The XTPs have 19" of penetration in gel and I can assume the lead has more. |
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I carry a G20, and, if you do research, everything else has major flaws, such as frame cracking...even on the Gold Cups. I really do recommend something other than a 10mm for grizzly...at a very minimum, a .44 Magnum. I carry my 10mm as a trail gun in Black Bear/Mountain Lion Country, but I leave it at home if I am in the Grizzly woods. A good Black Bear round is a 200 grain Hard Cast, or TMJ round...Double Tap has both of those, but I roll my own. I believe Buffalo Bore also makes a 200 gr Hard Cast Load. Stay away from HP self defense bullets for bear, they just don't like being pushed at 10mm velocities and penetrate to the vitals of a bear. |
| what is it about black bear fear in here. I livein black bear country and they are very hard to find if you want to. a nice bell while you kike scares tehm of. If youare unfortuante enough to come across a sau that has cups and feels that you are a danger you woun't be able to get your gun out in time no matter what kind unless you carry open. Bear maze works better since you can carry it open. |
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Quoted: what is it about black bear fear in here. I livein black bear country and they are very hard to find if you want to. a nice bell while you kike scares tehm of. If youare unfortuante enough to come across a sau that has cups and feels that you are a danger you woun't be able to get your gun out in time no matter what kind unless you carry open. Bear maze works better since you can carry it open. Open Carry in Wyoming is not taboo, and I can't understand why anyone would Conceal Carry in the woods. If you can't get to your gun fast enough for a Sow, then you can't get to your bear spray fast enough, either. Now....Wyoming has a state law that you must carry Bear Spray in Wilderness Areas, due to our abundance of Grizzlies, no matter if you have a gun or not. My bear spray is less accessible to me than my gun is when I am in Grizzly Country. |
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what is it about black bear fear in here. I livein black bear country and they are very hard to find if you want to. a nice bell while you kike scares tehm of. If youare unfortuante enough to come across a sau that has cups and feels that you are a danger you woun't be able to get your gun out in time no matter what kind unless you carry open. Bear maze works better since you can carry it open. so I figure if I can scare the wife with enough bear stories I can get a 10mm.
Fear may not be the motive here. 
Self defense load? 180 grain Gold Dot. anti-bear? - I'd rather have a shotgun/slugs. You probably won't have the opportunity to go 15 +1 on Yogi. When's the trip? One of these days Vltor is supposed to bring the Bren Ten onto market. Speculation is they may show it at the Shot Show, but that's speculation. And if you had one you'd want to run enough ammo thru it to make sure it doesn't go click at the wrong time. Especially if your wife is faster than you. 
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what is it about black bear fear in here. I livein black bear country and they are very hard to find if you want to. a nice bell while you kike scares tehm of. If youare unfortuante enough to come across a sau that has cups and feels that you are a danger you woun't be able to get your gun out in time no matter what kind unless you carry open. Bear maze works better since you can carry it open. I'm not one to usually point out bad grammar, but WTF? I say go with a G20 if you want a 10mm. |
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Quoted: I'd go with a heavy magnum if it was for grizzly but it'll be for black bear. Also it will be more for human self defense with a slight chance of bear. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile That is why I carry a 10mm in WY....Self Defense form people, bears, cats and wolves, without the switching of Carry guns. It sucks going to town with a "Hog-Leg" tied to your leg. |
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I have a G20 and that's what I'd get again. It's the most reliable available and it holds 15 rds of 10mm. The 10mm 1911s are awesome as well, but they only hold 8 rds and I'd personally feel better with 2x as much ammo. As far as ammo, you want to stick with Double Tap or your reloads. I have some Double Tap for defense and reload everything else I shoot. If you want protection from large animals, I'd get DTs 200 gn XTP or the 200 gn hard cast lead rounds. The XTPs have 19" of penetration in gel and I can assume the lead has more. The gun he said. The ammo he said. |
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what is it about black bear fear in here. I livein black bear country and they are very hard to find if you want to. a nice bell while you kike scares tehm of. If youare unfortuante enough to come across a sau that has cups and feels that you are a danger you woun't be able to get your gun out in time no matter what kind unless you carry open. Bear maze works better since you can carry it open. I'm not one to usually point out bad grammar, but WTF? I say go with a G20 if you want a 10mm. thank you ... i have not had my coffe yet and i am typing to fast......oh and i forgot this is my second language. I am sure you type perfect in GERMAN. |
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what is it about black bear fear in here. I livein black bear country and they are very hard to find if you want to. a nice bell while you kike scares tehm of. If youare unfortuante enough to come across a sau that has cups and feels that you are a danger you woun't be able to get your gun out in time no matter what kind unless you carry open. Bear maze works better since you can carry it open. so I figure if I can scare the wife with enough bear stories I can get a 10mm.
Fear may not be the motive here.
Self defense load? 180 grain Gold Dot. anti-bear? - I'd rather have a shotgun/slugs. You probably won't have the opportunity to go 15 +1 on Yogi. This man get's it! Of course I'd rather have my shotgun with slugs, but I'm going to have to be more discreet than that. |
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what is it about black bear fear in here. I livein black bear country and they are very hard to find if you want to. a nice bell while you kike scares tehm of. If youare unfortuante enough to come across a sau that has cups and feels that you are a danger you woun't be able to get your gun out in time no matter what kind unless you carry open. Bear maze works better since you can carry it open. I'm not one to usually point out bad grammar, but WTF? I say go with a G20 if you want a 10mm. thank you ... i have not had my coffe yet and i am typing to fast......oh and i forgot this is my second language. I am sure you type perfect in GERMAN. er ist nichts anderes als eine dumme Kuh.. 
my first wife taught me to speak it while I was stationed there . I have forgotten most of it, and my writing is terrible. |
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what is it about black bear fear in here. I livein black bear country and they are very hard to find if you want to. a nice bell while you kike scares tehm of. If youare unfortuante enough to come across a sau that has cups and feels that you are a danger you woun't be able to get your gun out in time no matter what kind unless you carry open. Bear maze works better since you can carry it open. I'm not one to usually point out bad grammar, but WTF? I say go with a G20 if you want a 10mm. thank you ... i have not had my coffe yet and i am typing to fast......oh and i forgot this is my second language. I am sure you type perfect in GERMAN. er ist nichts anderes als eine dumme Kuh..
my first wife taught me to speak it while I was stationed there . I have forgotten most of it, and my writing is terrible. I have been here in the states for a while and i am starting to lose some |
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............... This man get's it! Of course I'd rather have my shotgun with slugs, but I'm going to have to be more discreet than that. Damn. You keep adding criteria! Discrete Pick up some yard sale beater clubs and slip your shotgun in this baby. 7 pounds. If anyone gives you the  just ask, "Have you seen a Top Flight?
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Colt Delta Friends don't let friends shoot Plastic Pistols... http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/cigardad/Myphotos927.jpg I'm afraid Colt doesn't get past the budget office though. |
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Colt Delta Friends don't let friends shoot Plastic Pistols... http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/cigardad/Myphotos927.jpg +1 |
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............... This man get's it! Of course I'd rather have my shotgun with slugs, but I'm going to have to be more discreet than that. Damn. You keep adding criteria! Discrete http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/golfbagplace_2082_6076819 Pick up some yard sale beater clubs and slip your shotgun in this baby. 7 pounds. If anyone gives you the just ask, "Have you seen a Top Flight? That might be discreet near a golf course, which I won't be. The main point is conning the wife into letting me get a 10mm. |
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This question comes up ofter and I am surprised there is ever any other answer than Glock.
Even with black bears, I'd be happier with more horsepower in a wheelgun. More people are mauled by blacks than browns and when a blackie turns and decides you are food, there is no turning them back. But I see your goal of getting the spousal unit to allocate funding for a purchase and your chances of bear issues are slim to none, especially if you exercise proper etiquette, and a 10mm is better than your hands. |
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Colt Delta Friends don't let friends shoot Plastic Pistols... http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/cigardad/Myphotos927.jpg Nice!!!! Is that a Don Williams gun? |
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i live in black bear territory and spend a lot of time outdoors ...
Glock 20 is the only decent choice and what i CC everyday... 1006 second ... EEA Witness third ... i'd carry one of smiths lightwieght .41 mags before i'd carry a 1911 ... gun wasn't made to handle the cartridge ... |
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The G20, Colt Delta Cup, and Bren Ten (good luck finding one) were the only ones I even knew about. I guess another option would be a .400 Corbon barrel for my USP 45. That ammo has got to be hard to find and expensive as hell. In fact I've never met anyone who owns one or even shot one. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Colt Delta Friends don't let friends shoot Plastic Pistols... http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/cigardad/Myphotos927.jpg Nice!!!! Is that a Don Williams gun? Yep, Don did that one for me about 4 years ago. |
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If you're willing to wait, the VLTOR Bren Ten (formerly known as the Fortis) will be coming out sometime around SHOT. I have a S&W 1006, and it's built like a tank. They are heavy and have a low capacity (9+1), but reliable, accurate, and handle really well with full power loads. If you can find one, I recommend it. |
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............... This man get's it! Of course I'd rather have my shotgun with slugs, but I'm going to have to be more discreet than that. Damn. You keep adding criteria! Discrete http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/golfbagplace_2082_6076819 Pick up some yard sale beater clubs and slip your shotgun in this baby. 7 pounds. If anyone gives you the just ask, "Have you seen a Top Flight? That might be discreet near a golf course, which I won't be. The main point is conning the wife into letting me get a 10mm. [facepalm] Some people just shouldn't be around when you are trying to lay a good line of BS on the wife. Been there, done that, so let me help you out. Clip the following for your wife. As a long-experienced professional hunter who has tracked and taken bear on six continents, personally, I wouldn't go into black bear country without a minimum G20 as well as a backup gun. Could be a .45-70 lever gun, maybe a minimum .308 bolt action carbine, or a M1A1 Scout. Even a .458 Win Mag wouldn't be overdressed when you are talking about something as downright mean, big, fearsome, and deadly as a black bear. I have seen pictures where they peeled the doors off of cars looking for something to eat –– like your ass. In the national parks, they have to use plate steel garbage cans just to keep them out of the trash. These are strong animals, and they have been known to attack humans on many occasions. Don't think you are going to outrun an enraged black bear, either, because you won't. If you run into one, you are going to have to face him head on. I wouldn't be scared to go camping in black bear country, but I would just want to make sure that I was fairly equipped before I did. Note: If you are planning to cook bacon or similar things over a campfire, you will DEFINITELY need a rifle. Your wife really doesn't want to know the story of how I know that. Just tell her that bacon + black bear = Rifle Required. Pretty much any hot food you plan to eat will require you to carry a rifle. Come to think of it, the only rational thing to do is to get another gun for your wife, too. After all, there will be those moments when she is off alone in the bushes doing her tinkle and she should at least be carrying something that will make enough noise to stop a big, angry black bear while you come running with the heavy artillery. I have heard of too many bad instances when people were in bear country and there were members of the party that were not armed and it turned out tragically. It is NOT something that you want to take chances with when the solution is simple –– one new rilfe and one new pistol for you, and another new handgun that your wife will carry. I would recommend a new G20 and M1A1 Scout for you (you need that semi-auto follow-up on anything as big and hard to kill as a black bear). Then maybe a G29 for your wife to carry. These are unfamiliar weapons and those specially designed 10mm bear rounds are pretty potent, so you will really need to do some practice with them before you are competent to walk into any woods where black bear might be found. Therefore, I would recommend a minimum of 1,000 rounds of practice with each weapon before you go camping. G20, M1A1 Scout, and a G29, plus 3,000 rounds of ammo. Those are the basics you will need. You can talk about sleeping bags, tents, and food when you get those safely in hand. I am telling you man, you would be damned insane to go into the woods with anything less. Camping can be a lot of fun but you need the proper safety gear. Don't fool around with the dangers of black bear. Just get the proper set of guns and you should have a wonderful time. Tell your wife that advice comes straight from a professional hunter so it is 100 percent factual. These other people will try to bullshit you about how one new gun is adequate when you are in black bear country. I wouldn't do that. Just ain't happening on my watch. |
| I talked to a Glockophile and he said the G20 was the best (of course), and the reason why was because when 10mm came out everyone rechamber the .45's, where the G20 was specifically built for the 10mm. The G21 came out later using the same frame and is supposedly more durable because of it. |
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Glock 20 and 29 are high capacity and give you a full size and subcompact that can use the same magazines.
Smith and Wesson 10-series are good but low capacity. Delta Elites are twice as expensive as the other two and are also low capacity. None of the 10mm handguns shoot well in my opinion. It's just a lot of round in an autopistol. |
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Colt Delta. Dad has one and I love it. The early ones had an issue with frame cracking, but they cut some kind of relief notch and now they don't have that problem. Never liked the feel of Glocks (or anything about them really), but since you do the G20 might not be a bad choice either. |
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Quoted: This question comes up ofter and I am surprised there is ever any other answer than Glock. Even with black bears, I'd be happier with more horsepower in a wheelgun. More people are mauled by blacks than browns and when a blackie turns and decides you are food, there is no turning them back. But I see your goal of getting the spousal unit to allocate funding for a purchase and your chances of bear issues are slim to none, especially if you exercise proper etiquette, and a 10mm is better than your hands. ... That's racist? Anyway, if the Colt is out of reach I would go with the Glock. It was completely designed around the 10mm cartridge, not cobbled together from a different gun like the .357Sig/.40S&W Glocks. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Colt Delta Friends don't let friends shoot Plastic Pistols... http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/cigardad/Myphotos927.jpg Nice!!!! Is that a Don Williams gun? Yep, Don did that one for me about 4 years ago. Holy shit, can you ask him if he will autograph my greatest hits CD? Also, ask him why the fuck they left "To Be Your Man" off it, that pisses me off. |
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I will be vacationing in bear country this year (black not grizzly), so I figure if I can scare the wife with enough bear stories I can get a 10mm. The question is which? The Glock 20 has a pretty good following, but what else is out there? Also what loads for self defense? Loads for bear? Hell just give me the scoop on 10mm's! Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Smith and Wesson makes some nice 10mm revolvers. Personally, I'm more comfortable with a .44 Magnum for defense against Black Bears, than a 10mm. But that's just me. |