Posted: 12/26/2009 11:23:23 AM EDT
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I hope that this is not a dupe, and I don't know how to make the link hot...someone help me please.
What an incredible weapon. I want one! http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=74d_1261798009 |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. |
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I hope that this is not a dupe, and I don't know how to make the link hot...someone help me please. What an incredible weapon. I want one! http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=74d_1261798009 |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Apples and oranges. It's lighter than a XM174 http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/XM174_grenade_launcher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM174_grenade_launcher http://en.eyeplorer.com/show/me/XM174+grenade+launcher |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Its capabilities are intended to be far greater than a 203. |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Apples and oranges. It's lighter than a XM174 http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/XM174_grenade_launcher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM174_grenade_launcher http://en.eyeplorer.com/show/me/XM174+grenade+launcher That's not even being used today....A round for the MK19 or a shorter version for the M203(with a prox. fuse)would be much more useful, plus they wouldnt have to lug another gun in, to get the same effect. Also Im sure the 40MM version would pack more of a punch. |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Its capabilities are intended to be far greater than a 203. The weapon or the round? I dont understand why the Proximity fuse cant be put into a 40MM. |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? A 203 is a fuckin' tube with a trigger - this is a complicated electronic weapon that is lazing targets, computing trajectory, setting the round as to when to detonate, and providing that information/computing the ballistics for the shooter. Not to mention the 40mm drops faster than Paris Hilton's pants in a motel room... The two are not comparable. |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Its capabilities are intended to be far greater than a 203. The weapon or the round? I dont understand why the Proximity fuse cant be put into a 40MM. Weapon. The round was originally 20mm but enlarged to 25mm once the engineers realized it didn't pack enough explosive/shrapnel in addition to the fuse. The concept of the weapon is to put a round through a window/directly over a pieve of cover at a few hundred meters and have the round explode a meter through the window. To do this, you really need a high velocity round...something much higher than what we use in the 203/mk19. |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Its capabilities are intended to be far greater than a 203. The weapon or the round? I dont understand why the Proximity fuse cant be put into a 40MM. Weapon. The round was originally 20mm but enlarged to 25mm once the engineers realized it didn't pack enough explosive/shrapnel in addition to the fuse. The concept of the weapon is to put a round through a window/directly over a pieve of cover at a few hundred meters and have the round explode a meter through the window. To do this, you really need a high velocity round...something much higher than what we use in the 203/mk19. I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. ETA: plus the MK19 40MM is a hell of a lot higher volocity(about 5x the range of the M203) than the M203 which is where I think you would get the most use out of it. |
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I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. Go handle a 203 and then figure out how you want to make it range the target, calculate ballistics, adjust targetting, program the projectile, and then accurately fire it. When you figure out how to do that, you'll have something similar to this weapon. |
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It can be done, but you would need a cannon type weapon to absorb the recoil necessary for penetration. One of the reasons M203s are so low powered is because of the recoil associated with higher velocity.
There was a M203 Proxy round in the works long ago, but the problem is you shooting it so close to ground anyway or other things like branches etc, that premature detonation can be huge problem. The other solution was a bounding frag round, but that tended to not work well. |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Its capabilities are intended to be far greater than a 203. The weapon or the round? I dont understand why the Proximity fuse cant be put into a 40MM. Weapon. The round was originally 20mm but enlarged to 25mm once the engineers realized it didn't pack enough explosive/shrapnel in addition to the fuse. The concept of the weapon is to put a round through a window/directly over a pieve of cover at a few hundred meters and have the round explode a meter through the window. To do this, you really need a high velocity round...something much higher than what we use in the 203/mk19. I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. The artillery rounds we have that cann be guided cost $80,000ish each. Frankly, that's too much to use in the applications we have for them today. Plus, it is relatively difficult to hit a small target with a slow moving, unguided round. |
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I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. Go handle a 203 and then figure out how you want to make it range the target, calculate ballistics, adjust targetting, program the projectile, and then accurately fire it. When you figure out how to do that, you'll have something similar to this weapon. I've used it a 203, now ask me if I want to carry more shit, or have a round(with maybe a laser rangefinder/ballistic computer built in to it) that would make me want an XM25 to haul all over hell's creation, to do 1 thing, that I couldnt do before. Hell if I could pop a 40MM round into the window...what's the gotta have feature..not to mention the AT-4 that my Agunner is carrying? |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Its capabilities are intended to be far greater than a 203. The weapon or the round? I dont understand why the Proximity fuse cant be put into a 40MM. Weapon. The round was originally 20mm but enlarged to 25mm once the engineers realized it didn't pack enough explosive/shrapnel in addition to the fuse. The concept of the weapon is to put a round through a window/directly over a pieve of cover at a few hundred meters and have the round explode a meter through the window. To do this, you really need a high velocity round...something much higher than what we use in the 203/mk19. I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. The artillery rounds we have that cann be guided cost $80,000ish each. Frankly, that's too much to use in the applications we have for them today. Plus, it is relatively difficult to hit a small target with a slow moving, unguided round. Except for this round is not guided....it's just a simple proximity round. We've been using em since WWII |
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I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. Go handle a 203 and then figure out how you want to make it range the target, calculate ballistics, adjust targetting, program the projectile, and then accurately fire it. When you figure out how to do that, you'll have something similar to this weapon. I've used it a 203, now ask me if I want to carry more shit, or have a round(with maybe a laser rangefinder/ballistic computer built in to it) that would make me want an XM25 to haul all over hell's creation, to do 1 thing, that I couldnt do before. Hell if I could pop a 40MM round into the window...what's the gotta have feature..not to mention the AT-4 that my Agunner is carrying? I'm not arguing whether or not this thing is worth carrying it, I'm saying that it's not comparable to a 203. The Colonel in the video misleads the viewers when he talks about shooting through windows with it. A 203 does fine at that, if you can hit it. Where this weapon makes its money is in providing indirect fire support at the squad level. It can explode over a trench, right behind a wall, etc. to kill targets that you couldn't otherwise hit with what you have available at the squad level. |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Its capabilities are intended to be far greater than a 203. The weapon or the round? I dont understand why the Proximity fuse cant be put into a 40MM. Weapon. The round was originally 20mm but enlarged to 25mm once the engineers realized it didn't pack enough explosive/shrapnel in addition to the fuse. The concept of the weapon is to put a round through a window/directly over a pieve of cover at a few hundred meters and have the round explode a meter through the window. To do this, you really need a high velocity round...something much higher than what we use in the 203/mk19. I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. The artillery rounds we have that cann be guided cost $80,000ish each. Frankly, that's too much to use in the applications we have for them today. Plus, it is relatively difficult to hit a small target with a slow moving, unguided round. The M982 cost what it did initially because they were all low rate production rounds; the actual production round is much cheaper and the precision fuze kit that will be coming on line in the next couple of years are pretty cheap relatively speaking, however they will be a little less accurate than the M982. |
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I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. Go handle a 203 and then figure out how you want to make it range the target, calculate ballistics, adjust targetting, program the projectile, and then accurately fire it. When you figure out how to do that, you'll have something similar to this weapon. I've used it a 203, now ask me if I want to carry more shit, or have a round(with maybe a laser rangefinder/ballistic computer built in to it) that would make me want an XM25 to haul all over hell's creation, to do 1 thing, that I couldnt do before. Hell if I could pop a 40MM round into the window...what's the gotta have feature..not to mention the AT-4 that my Agunner is carrying? Now now, don't let realism get in the way of Army Material Command. 
That said, seeing where this concept was a decade ago and seeing where it is today...In a few years this could actually be an effective weapon whose benefits actually outweigh the costs. |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Its capabilities are intended to be far greater than a 203. The weapon or the round? I dont understand why the Proximity fuse cant be put into a 40MM. Weapon. The round was originally 20mm but enlarged to 25mm once the engineers realized it didn't pack enough explosive/shrapnel in addition to the fuse. The concept of the weapon is to put a round through a window/directly over a pieve of cover at a few hundred meters and have the round explode a meter through the window. To do this, you really need a high velocity round...something much higher than what we use in the 203/mk19. I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. The artillery rounds we have that cann be guided cost $80,000ish each. Frankly, that's too much to use in the applications we have for them today. Plus, it is relatively difficult to hit a small target with a slow moving, unguided round. Except for this round is not guided....it's just a simple proximity round. We've been using em since WWII There are proxy fuzes for shells as small as 40mm, but they tend almost the size of a 40mm M203/Mk19 round by themselves and they have the problems I mentioned about low altitude initial points. |
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I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. Go handle a 203 and then figure out how you want to make it range the target, calculate ballistics, adjust targetting, program the projectile, and then accurately fire it. When you figure out how to do that, you'll have something similar to this weapon. I've used it a 203, now ask me if I want to carry more shit, or have a round(with maybe a laser rangefinder/ballistic computer built in to it) that would make me want an XM25 to haul all over hell's creation, to do 1 thing, that I couldnt do before. Hell if I could pop a 40MM round into the window...what's the gotta have feature..not to mention the AT-4 that my Agunner is carrying? I'm not arguing whether or not this thing is worth carrying it, I'm saying that it's not comparable to a 203. The Colonel in the video misleads the viewers when he talks about shooting through windows with it. A 203 does fine at that, if you can hit it. Where this weapon makes its money is in providing indirect fire support at the squad level. It can explode over a trench, right behind a wall, etc. to kill targets that you couldn't otherwise hit with what you have available at the squad level. I get what your saying, Im just saying it's a fuse...put it into the 40MM rounds and you'd have the same thing. Plus Grunts wont have to carry some other weapon to do 1 job |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Its capabilities are intended to be far greater than a 203. The weapon or the round? I dont understand why the Proximity fuse cant be put into a 40MM. Weapon. The round was originally 20mm but enlarged to 25mm once the engineers realized it didn't pack enough explosive/shrapnel in addition to the fuse. The concept of the weapon is to put a round through a window/directly over a pieve of cover at a few hundred meters and have the round explode a meter through the window. To do this, you really need a high velocity round...something much higher than what we use in the 203/mk19. I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. The artillery rounds we have that cann be guided cost $80,000ish each. Frankly, that's too much to use in the applications we have for them today. Plus, it is relatively difficult to hit a small target with a slow moving, unguided round. Except for this round is not guided....it's just a simple proximity round. We've been using em since WWII There are proxy fuzes for shells as small as 40mm, but they tend almost the size of a 40mm M203/Mk19 round by themselves and they have the problems I mentioned about low altitude initial points. I may be wrong, but didnt they use these Prox rounds in small AG guns in WWII for the ships AA? |
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Except for this round is not guided....it's just a simple proximity round. We've been using em since WWII It's not though. You laze to your target then program it to explode 1-2 meters beyond the target. It explodes based on the deteoriation on its rate of spin after leaving the weapon's barrel. |
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I get what your saying, Im just saying it's a fuse...put it into the 40MM rounds and you'd have the same thing. Plus Grunts wont have to carry some other weapon to do 1 job It's a fuse integrated to a laser range finder, which is integrated to be the weapon's sighting system. My personal opinion is that it seems to complicated for field use. Probably works well on a square range, but through in a bunch of shit in the way and unclear targets (trench with nothing to laze off of, or enemies shooting from behind a wall, that has a curb and parked cars in front of it) and it becomes problematic to the point that one would just say "fuck it" and engage it with something else. |
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Couldnt they have done this in a 40mm round? And saved us the money of trying to test and feild a new weapon system. Looks to be quite a bit lighter than a 40mm system..still heavy but not like a mag fed blooper...probably has a better ballistics profile as well. You think that looks lighter than an M203? Its capabilities are intended to be far greater than a 203. The weapon or the round? I dont understand why the Proximity fuse cant be put into a 40MM. Weapon. The round was originally 20mm but enlarged to 25mm once the engineers realized it didn't pack enough explosive/shrapnel in addition to the fuse. The concept of the weapon is to put a round through a window/directly over a pieve of cover at a few hundred meters and have the round explode a meter through the window. To do this, you really need a high velocity round...something much higher than what we use in the 203/mk19. I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. The artillery rounds we have that cann be guided cost $80,000ish each. Frankly, that's too much to use in the applications we have for them today. Plus, it is relatively difficult to hit a small target with a slow moving, unguided round. Except for this round is not guided....it's just a simple proximity round. We've been using em since WWII There are proxy fuzes for shells as small as 40mm, but they tend almost the size of a 40mm M203/Mk19 round by themselves and they have the problems I mentioned about low altitude initial points. I may be wrong, but didnt they use these Prox rounds in small AG guns in WWII for the ships AA? Yeah, we did. It was a pretty big deal at the time. |
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Except for this round is not guided....it's just a simple proximity round. We've been using em since WWII It's not though. You laze to your target then program it to explode 1-2 meters beyond the target. It explodes based on the deteoriation on its rate of spin after leaving the weapon's barrel. So why not translate it to a 40MM then? Not trying to start anything just curious, if they can pack this into a 25MM round why not a 40MM? |
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I may be wrong, but didnt they use these Prox rounds in small AG guns in WWII for the ships AA? No, proxy fuzes were not able to be made small until recently. The original rounds had a long intrusion body (almost 6 inches long) to make room for the electronics and batteries. This is reason the is a removable supplementary charges for HE rounds, you removed the sup charge to accommodate the long VT fuze and left in in for other types of fuzes. |
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Except for this round is not guided....it's just a simple proximity round. We've been using em since WWII It's not though. You laze to your target then program it to explode 1-2 meters beyond the target. It explodes based on the deteoriation on its rate of spin after leaving the weapon's barrel. So why not translate it to a 40MM then? Not trying to start anything just curious, if they can pack this into a 25MM round why not a 40MM? To get the velocity neccessary it would have to be really heavy. The idea is to make it is small/light as possible while still doing the job. |
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Except for this round is not guided....it's just a simple proximity round. We've been using em since WWII It's not though. You laze to your target then program it to explode 1-2 meters beyond the target. It explodes based on the deteoriation on its rate of spin after leaving the weapon's barrel. So why not translate it to a 40MM then? Not trying to start anything just curious, if they can pack this into a 25MM round why not a 40MM? To get the velocity neccessary it would have to be really heavy. The idea is to make it is small/light as possible while still doing the job. Just curious, why does velocity have anything to do with it, if it's counting rotations? |
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Yeah, we did. It was a pretty big deal at the time. No guns like the bofors used quick fuzes, you didn't see VT fuzes until you got to 75mm or larger class guns. It appears the shitty history channel show I watched on hte subject was shitty. It often is. |
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Except for this round is not guided....it's just a simple proximity round. We've been using em since WWII It's not though. You laze to your target then program it to explode 1-2 meters beyond the target. It explodes based on the deteoriation on its rate of spin after leaving the weapon's barrel. So why not translate it to a 40MM then? Not trying to start anything just curious, if they can pack this into a 25MM round why not a 40MM? To get the velocity neccessary it would have to be really heavy. The idea is to make it is small/light as possible while still doing the job. Just curious, why does velocity have anything to do with it, if it's counting rotations? Well, if you were putting a 203 round on target at say 400 meters, you would have to "angle" the weapon pretty significantly. Now, imagine trying to look through a scope/range finder to make this shot while you have to angle the weapon so high. That's the most obvious reason I can think of. |
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Quoted: i dont think theyll give you an xm25 on top of everything else but replace certain weapons depending on the mission.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I see your point on the velocity, but would argue if you could do it with an Arty round why couldn't it be done with a 40MM? Just an honest question. Go handle a 203 and then figure out how you want to make it range the target, calculate ballistics, adjust targetting, program the projectile, and then accurately fire it. When you figure out how to do that, you'll have something similar to this weapon. I've used it a 203, now ask me if I want to carry more shit, or have a round(with maybe a laser rangefinder/ballistic computer built in to it) that would make me want an XM25 to haul all over hell's creation, to do 1 thing, that I couldnt do before. Hell if I could pop a 40MM round into the window...what's the gotta have feature..not to mention the AT-4 that my Agunner is carrying? I'm not arguing whether or not this thing is worth carrying it, I'm saying that it's not comparable to a 203. The Colonel in the video misleads the viewers when he talks about shooting through windows with it. A 203 does fine at that, if you can hit it. Where this weapon makes its money is in providing indirect fire support at the squad level. It can explode over a trench, right behind a wall, etc. to kill targets that you couldn't otherwise hit with what you have available at the squad level. I get what your saying, Im just saying it's a fuse...put it into the 40MM rounds and you'd have the same thing. Plus Grunts wont have to carry some other weapon to do 1 job its a flat shooting launcher wth more ammuniton capacity plus a proximity fuse. i guess it really depends on how they implement it that will determine its usefulness. |
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Except for this round is not guided....it's just a simple proximity round. We've been using em since WWII It's not though. You laze to your target then program it to explode 1-2 meters beyond the target. It explodes based on the deteoriation on its rate of spin after leaving the weapon's barrel. So why not translate it to a 40MM then? Not trying to start anything just curious, if they can pack this into a 25MM round why not a 40MM? To get the velocity neccessary it would have to be really heavy. The idea is to make it is small/light as possible while still doing the job. Just curious, why does velocity have anything to do with it, if it's counting rotations? Well, if you were putting a 203 round on target at say 400 meters, you would have to "angle" the weapon pretty significantly. Now, imagine trying to look through a scope/range finder to make this shot while you have to angle the weapon so high. That's the most obvious reason I can think of. I think if the developers are smart enough to build and program it, they can figure for such things as drop and decreased velocity. We have done crazier things. Thinking about it, use the current red dot M203 sight, when its on target, Laser it(then have it program the round) and fire...just how I would build it. |