Posted: 11/13/2009 3:15:25 PM EDT
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I have yet to see anything about the legality of such system, and am curious if any firearms have a reactive trigger system? (Reactive triggers use a piston system to kick the trigger out after each cycle of the gun's gas system , forcing the trigger out with significant force ,instead of a return spring or such that would be on most firearms.) Anyone know? |
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I have yet to see anything about the legality of such system, and am curious if any firearms have a reactive trigger system? (Reactive triggers use a piston system to kick the trigger out after each cycle of the gun's gas system , forcing the trigger out with significant force ,instead of a return spring or such that would be on most firearms.) Anyone know? As long as the trigger is only forced out, I don't see why it would be a problem, the other way; that's a different story. |
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Illegal, per ATF ruling, they call it automatic reset, IIRC. I looked into it years ago, back when I tried a 2 finger trigger. What was their problem with it. It doesn't sound like it would make it a machine gun, unless I am misunderstanding the function. |
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By their 'One shot per trigger pull' it would not be considered a MG. HOWEVER, the fact is , if you hold on the trigger it will lend to automatic fire ,as the trigger is forced out ,and you end up pulling it again automatically. One of my main concerns/thoughts is it would be a good system for military firearms as it's quite easy to fire 1,3,5,or FA without switching anything. Quoted: Quoted: Illegal, per ATF ruling, they call it automatic reset, IIRC. I looked into it years ago, back when I tried a 2 finger trigger. What was their problem with it. It doesn't sound like it would make it a machine gun, unless I am misunderstanding the function. |
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Quoted: FWIW, the akins accelerator isn't a machinegun either, but they ruled it as such.Quoted: Illegal, per ATF ruling, they call it automatic reset, IIRC. I looked into it years ago, back when I tried a 2 finger trigger. What was their problem with it. It doesn't sound like it would make it a machine gun, unless I am misunderstanding the function. Anything that allows you to shoot, bumpfire, etc. a rapid stream of aimed shots similar to full auto without putting a crank or some other unweildy device in your trigger guard is going to be ruled against by the ATF. |
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Illegal, per ATF ruling, they call it automatic reset, IIRC. I looked into it years ago, back when I tried a 2 finger trigger. So how did the Hell-fire/storm/etc.make it through? Do you have any links to the ruling? Other info? The Hell-fire/Storm/ Etc. is merely legal today because it has been approved for 30 years. The letter of opinion that I found stated them to be auxiliary trigger return springs. Keep in mind that the ATF issues opinions they do not make laws. How they got away with confiscating the springs from the Akins Accelerator with out due process is beyond me. There is nothing in the GCA or the NFA that says a gun can not automatically bump fire, when the gun's trigger is "functioned" once for every round fired. When I came up with the idea for utilizing a rubber band to assist in the technique of bump firing I pretty much copied what the Hell-fire/Storm/ Etc. devices were doing. The Hellstorm 2000 uses a metal arm that is under tension to force the trigger to reset quicker. The only reason why the ATF FTB has not, and probably will never give me a definitive answer weather they think using a rubber band is legal or not is because if they ruled the rubber band to be a machine gun they would have to say that anything with a trigger return spring is also a machine gun. Ruling this way would have every Firearms manufacture filing lawsuits the same day ATF's opinion came out. |
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Has anyone ever brought to market a trigger that fired when you pulled the trigger, and then again when you released it?
Yeah, probably not very safe or practical, but I remember reading somewhere there pulling the trigger was one function and releasing it was another therefore firing while pulling and then releasing would still only be 1 shot per function of the trigger. |
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Anything that allows you to shoot, bumpfire, etc. a rapid stream of aimed shots similar to full auto without putting a crank or some other unweildy device in your trigger guard is going to be ruled against by the ATF. I thought bump firing was perfectly legal....So does this mean my extra large rubber band wrapped my magwell is illegal? |
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Has anyone ever brought to market a trigger that fired when you pulled the trigger, and then again when you released it? Yeah, probably not very safe or practical, but I remember reading somewhere there pulling the trigger was one function and releasing it was another therefore firing while pulling and then releasing would still only be 1 shot per function of the trigger. There was a mini14 set up like that from the hellfire people. Cheezy at best. |
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Quoted: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/2004-5.htmQuoted: Illegal, per ATF ruling, they call it automatic reset, IIRC. I looked into it years ago, back when I tried a 2 finger trigger. So how did the Hell-fire/storm/etc.make it through? Do you have any links to the ruling? Other info? The Minigun is not a Gatling Gun. It was not produced under the 1862 - 1893 patents of the original Gatling Gun. While using a basic design concept of the Gatling Gun, the Minigun does not incorporate any of Gatling's original components and its feed mechanisms are entirely different. Critically, the Minigun shoots more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger, as prescribed by 26 U.S.C. 5845(b). See United States v. Fleischli, 305 F.3d 643, 655-656 (7th Cir. 2002). See also Staples v. United States, 511 U.S. 600, 603 (1994) (automatic refers to a weapon that "once its trigger is depressed, the weapon will automatically continue to fire until its trigger is released or the ammunition is exhausted"); GEORGE C. NONTE, JR., FIREARMS ENCYCLOPEDIA 13 (Harper & Rowe 1973) (the term "automatic" is defined to include "any firearm in which a single pull and continuous pressure upon the trigger (or other firing device) will produce rapid discharge of successive shots so long as ammunition remains in the magazine or feed device in other words, a machinegun"); WEBSTER'S II NEW RIVERSIDE -UNIVERSITY DICTIONARY (1988) (defining automatically as "acting or operating in a manner essentially independent of external influence or control"); JOHN QUICK, PH.D., DICTIONARY OF WEAPONS AND MILITARY TERMS 40 (McGraw-Hill 1973) (defining automatic fire as "continuous fire from an automatic gun, lasting until pressure on the trigger is released"). While the above is taken from a ruling on miniguns, it is clear that their twisted, tortured definition of "trigger pull" would exclude a reactive trigger, or power trigger reset device. Since reactive triggers require the shooter to maintain pressure on the trigger itself (even though it must undergo a separate "function" for each fired shot, as per the actual NFA law), they would "rule" it illegal. This is the same bullshit logic they used to rule the AA illegal. |
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Quoted: They have ruled that a shoestring is illegal when it is attached to certain semiautomatic rifles in certain configurations. Quoted: Anything that allows you to shoot, bumpfire, etc. a rapid stream of aimed shots similar to full auto without putting a crank or some other unweildy device in your trigger guard is going to be ruled against by the ATF. I thought bump firing was perfectly legal....So does this mean my extra large rubber band wrapped my magwell is illegal? Bump firing is legal. I don't think they have made a clear definitive ruling on rubber bands. |
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http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/2004-5.htm
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Illegal, per ATF ruling, they call it automatic reset, IIRC. I looked into it years ago, back when I tried a 2 finger trigger. So how did the Hell-fire/storm/etc.make it through? Do you have any links to the ruling? Other info? The Minigun is not a Gatling Gun. It was not produced under the 1862 -1893 patents of the original Gatling Gun. While using a basic designconcept of the Gatling Gun, the Minigun does not incorporate any ofGatling's original components and its feed mechanisms are entirelydifferent. Critically, the Minigun shoots more than one shot, withoutmanual reloading, by a single function of the trigger, as prescribed by26 U.S.C. 5845(b). See United States v. Fleischli, 305 F.3d 643, 655-656 (7th Cir. 2002). See also Staples v. United States,511 U.S. 600, 603 (1994) (automatic refers to a weapon that "once itstrigger is depressed, the weapon will automatically continue to fireuntil its trigger is released or the ammunition is exhausted"); GEORGEC. NONTE, JR., FIREARMS ENCYCLOPEDIA 13 (Harper & Rowe 1973) (theterm "automatic" is defined to include "any firearm in which a singlepull and continuous pressure upon the trigger (or other firing device)will produce rapid discharge of successive shots so long as ammunitionremains in the magazine or feed device in other words, a machinegun");WEBSTER'S II NEW RIVERSIDE -UNIVERSITY DICTIONARY (1988) (definingautomatically as "acting or operating in a manner essentiallyindependent of external influence or control"); JOHN QUICK, PH.D.,DICTIONARY OF WEAPONS AND MILITARY TERMS 40 (McGraw-Hill 1973)(defining automatic fire as "continuous fire from an automatic gun,lasting until pressure on the trigger is released").
While the above is taken from a ruling on miniguns, it is clear that their twisted, tortured definition of "trigger pull" would exclude a reactive trigger, or power trigger reset device. Since reactive triggers require the shooter to maintain pressure on the trigger itself (even though it must undergo a separate "function" for each fired shot, as per the actual NFA law), they would "rule" it illegal. This is the same bullshit logic they used to rule the AA illegal. 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/2004-5.htmQuoted: Illegal, per ATF ruling, they call it automatic reset, IIRC. I looked into it years ago, back when I tried a 2 finger trigger. So how did the Hell-fire/storm/etc.make it through? Do you have any links to the ruling? Other info? The Minigun is not a Gatling Gun. It was not produced under the 1862 -1893 patents of the original Gatling Gun. While using a basic designconcept of the Gatling Gun, the Minigun does not incorporate any ofGatling's original components and its feed mechanisms are entirelydifferent. Critically, the Minigun shoots more than one shot, withoutmanual reloading, by a single function of the trigger, as prescribed by26 U.S.C. 5845(b). See United States v. Fleischli, 305 F.3d 643, 655-656 (7th Cir. 2002). See also Staples v. United States,511 U.S. 600, 603 (1994) (automatic refers to a weapon that "once itstrigger is depressed, the weapon will automatically continue to fireuntil its trigger is released or the ammunition is exhausted"); GEORGEC. NONTE, JR., FIREARMS ENCYCLOPEDIA 13 (Harper & Rowe 1973) (theterm "automatic" is defined to include "any firearm in which a singlepull and continuous pressure upon the trigger (or other firing device)will produce rapid discharge of successive shots so long as ammunitionremains in the magazine or feed device in other words, a machinegun");WEBSTER'S II NEW RIVERSIDE -UNIVERSITY DICTIONARY (1988) (definingautomatically as "acting or operating in a manner essentiallyindependent of external influence or control"); JOHN QUICK, PH.D.,DICTIONARY OF WEAPONS AND MILITARY TERMS 40 (McGraw-Hill 1973)(defining automatic fire as "continuous fire from an automatic gun,lasting until pressure on the trigger is released"). While the above is taken from a ruling on miniguns, it is clear that their twisted, tortured definition of "trigger pull" would exclude a reactive trigger, or power trigger reset device. Since reactive triggers require the shooter to maintain pressure on the trigger itself (even though it must undergo a separate "function" for each fired shot, as per the actual NFA law), they would "rule" it illegal. This is the same bullshit logic they used to rule the AA illegal. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a381/yekimak/batferuger2-shot001.jpg That's not a reactive trigger. A reactive trigger is one that uses a piston or solenoid or other actuator to forcibly reset the trigger after it has been pulled to it's fully forward position. |