[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Over under shotguns (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:21:26 AM EDT
| A buddy of mine just emailed me asking what a good over-under shotgun would be in the 500-800 dollar range (I've gone from being the "crazy gun guy" to the "firearms expert" in the past six months). I guess he wants to shoot clay and shit. Not really my thing. What should I recommend him? |
|
Quoted:
A buddy of mine just emailed me asking what a good over-under shotgun would be in the 500-800 dollar range (I've gone from being the "crazy gun guy" to the "firearms expert" in the past six months). I guess he wants to shoot clay and shit. Not really my thing. What should I recommend him? They don't make one... IMHO, the Citori line makes the cheapest, quality, O/Us out there. |
|
Perhaps your friend should be looking for a "good enough" o/u since they will all kill/break things.
Look in a Dicks ad and you will see some examples and if it were me I'd be going to gun auctions looking for a used SKB. How a gun fits, swings and carries are the most important qualities to look for at that level. |
| I have a Traditions O/U that my dad gave me. I believe they run about $600. I'm not a big trap shooter but it has worked well for me. I was helping out at a trap shoot earlier this year and was amazed how expensive O/Us are. There was one that was 18k. Some of the others were 8 to 9k. |
|
Download CDNN Investment's latest catalog from here They have AWESOME deals on Over/Under shotguns now. I would be looking at a Weatherby, Winchester or CZ.
ETA: I handled a Charles Daly O/U a few weeks ago and the fit/finish was on par to $2k shotguns that I've handled. |
|
Quoted:
Download CDNN Investment's latest catalog from here They have AWESOME deals on Over/Under shotguns now. I would be looking at a Weatherby, Winchester or CZ. This s the best route. Some amazing deals there. 
|
|
I've seen Ruger Red labels on used racks for 800-1000. But more to your buddies price point, my wife decided she wanted to try an O/U for trap after years of shooting her Grandpa's Beretta auto. We got her one of those Mossberg "Silver Reserve" O/U's. About $500 new. I believe they're made by Zastava. It's of course not even on part with a Red Label or Citori, but it's much nicer than the russian imports and she really likes it. |
|
Take a look at the HK/Fabarms OU's. I used a Golden Lion in a skeet league for several seasons and did very well. Better fit for me than the Browning Citori I started with. Real hard hitters with a Tri-bore barrel that just seemed to pattern better than the Citori. Excellent quality steel and wood.
Typically MSRP under $1K so you should be seeing them $800ish...? |
|
Tell him to look at the Weatherby Orion. Previously SKB had made the Orion line for Weatherby but now an Italian firm makes a different gun called an Orion for Weatherby. You can find the SKB made guns priced around $800. Also SKB makes the model 505 field which can be found in the $800 price range.
Yes I'm sappy about SKB shotguns and have shot a BSA marked SKB for quite awhile and it stays home only if steel shot is gonna fly. |
|
I went through the sticker shock phase looking at O/U shotguns. There's just not that much going into them that makes the $1000+ cost justifiable in my book. At any rate, I ended up with a CZ Canvasback from CDNN. Decent price and the gun goes bang every time. |
| O/U just like anything else can be extremely expensive. it is all in what you want. Beretta makes a very nice line of O/U. ranging from mildly priced to wildly priced. so does Browning. I prefer Beretta. it fits me better. you get what you pay for in the gun world. Stoger makes some inexpensive O/U. I would tell him to go to some place like Dicks and fondle all the O/U. you can tell the difference in quality, fit and finish, and mechanisms. I know the Dicks by me has guns that range from 300$ TO 2000$. A lot of it needs to be how the gun fits the shooter. how it throws up, points ect. then look for a gun in that line/brand in the price range he wants wheather it be online, another gun shop, or some where else. One of the clays clubs near me has a board for guns for sale and there is something on it all the time. There are some REALY NICE guns that can be had for not a lot of money. I'm talkin bout 3 and 4K$ for 1k. and 20k to 30k guns for 10k to 15k. |
|
I own and shoot seven shotguns but only have one AR. I would pose this question on the Shooting Sportsman BBS or the Double Gun BBS if I were you/him- a lot more informed advice there. The gentlemen on there will give you the benefit of a lot of years of shotgun wisdom.
I would personally avoid the cheapos, any Remington double as they keep adding and dropping models and most of the East European/Russkie guns. A good used Beretta or Browning would be a good choice. A used Win. 101 for 750-850 is hard to beat for quality and workmanship. The main concern for me with a long term relationship gun is repair and replacement parts availibility down the road, say 10 to 20 years from now. The Browning and Beretta will have both those concerns covered. He should handle a couple of different samples of each and shoot them if possible- they are very different animals. http://www.doublegunshop.com http://www.bbs.shootingsportsman.com Edited to fix the links. |
|
at $500- to $800 I'd tell him to save more and buy a Beretta AL391 Urika 2 used (if it hasn't been fucked with), or new if he wants to save a bit more. Getting an O/U is all very nice with tube kits, selectable's ejectors, and that "Pride of ownership" thing, but one of the problems with cheap O/U's is the lockwork very quickly goes to shit if they are use for hard competition and practice. |
| O/U shotguns are like AR's, there is a wide range of pricing and you typically get what you pay for. I shoot a Beretta 686 Onyx and love it, but its probably more than your friend wants to spend. I would suggest either perusing used racks, or maybe a gun show. The price of admission is worth it to be able to handle several models and compare fit and finish. |
| A few cents worth more opinion. Ruger is a pretty good option. Your friend is at a tough price point. A good pump or gas gun is a great option. I don't really know any good, cheap REAL target guns that will stand up to serious clays use without periodic repair, parts replaccement and maintenance. If he gets into the clays games he'll put more use on a double in a few years than the average guy's gun will get in a few lifetimes. I love doubles (OUs) cause I hate picking up emptys off the ground after skeet or sporting clays. Doubles suck in a duck blind. Most of my hunting is done with an old 870 with RemChokes, a Winchester Super X2 or a Baikal auto, all with synthetic stocks and utilitarian metal finishes. |
|
Quoted:
I went through the sticker shock phase looking at O/U shotguns. There's just not that much going into them that makes the $1000+ cost justifiable in my book. At any rate, I ended up with a CZ Canvasback from CDNN. Decent price and the gun goes bang every time. 
|
|
Quoted:
A buddy of mine just emailed me asking what a good over-under shotgun would be in the 500-800 dollar range (I've gone from being the "crazy gun guy" to the "firearms expert" in the past six months). I guess he wants to shoot clay and shit. Not really my thing. What should I recommend him? I like the Franchi over-unders and classic pattern Browning Citori. But as far as a new O/U on the cheap, the Stoeger Condor isn't too bad. At the outfitter I used work at, we sold a fair number of them. Customers were generally satisfied with the guns. We sold them (depending on grade) in the 450-600 dollar range. |
|
Quoted:
Tell him to save his money until he can afford a decent O/U. After he adds $1000 to his budget, get back to us, and then we will talk. ^^This^^ Whatever he shoots, it needs to be fitted to him. For a rookie or occasional clay shooter, there is no advantage to shooting an O/U. |
|
In that price range, skip the Ruger hog and get an SKB. Great, underappreciated guns. Quality is up there with Browning and Beretta at a $1000 price point. Might also look at the Winchester Supreme/Select/101 or Franchi guns. The older Weatherby o/us are SKBs, the new ones are Fausti's. Fausti wouldn't be too bad. Check out
www.jaquas.com or www.whittakerguns.com From Whittakers: SKB 585 Field 12ga 26in Over & Under barrel w/2 chokes ***CLEAN*** 759.00
Winchester 101 12ga 30in Full & Full Over & Under barrels ***CLEAN*** 899.00 Weatherby Orion Upland 20ga 26in Over & Under barrels w/3 chokes & box ***UNFIRED*** 919.00 Winchester 101 Pigeon Grade Trap 12ga 30in Full & Imp. Over & Under barrel w/Case ***CRACK IN FOREND*** 1,199.00 Winchester 101 Field Grade 12ga 30in Full & Full Over & Under 849.00 Weatherby Orion 12ga 26in Imp. Cyl. Over & Under barrel 729.00 Winchester 101 12ga 26in Over & Under 799.00 Winchester 101 12ga 28in Mod. & Full choke Over & Under 749.00 I won't recommend any shotgun made in Turkey (CZ), Brazil (Stoeger) or Russia. |
|
I have a Traditions O/U that I bought from Wally World. Its a Stefano Fausti and a pretty nice field gun. No ejectors so reloading is a bit slower. The engraving is machine rolled and the wood is birch with a walnut stain. Not the top of the line, but it goes bang every time, shoots where you aim it and I don't feel bad about using it out nasty days. There are good utility grade O/U field guns out there. While they are not gee whiz heirloom quality they do get the job done. Mine has killed a good number of doves, quail, pheasants, chukar and grouse. If I remember right it was right around $500. YMMV |
|
I don't know how anyone swings those inexpensive Russian and turkish import guns. The ones I've shot trap and SC with felt like swinging a battleship around,they were so ponderously slow handling.
I'd take my cheap Mossberg 500 over any of them for pointability,ease of handling and smoothness of swing. |
|
Quoted:
so what advantage does a quality over/under give you over a cheap one? Weight, balance, pointability, fit, finish, feel, trigger, durability, etc. There is a reason that top professional shooters all shoot high end O/Us when they shoot an O/U in competition. |
|
Mossberg Onyx field reserve
I bought one of these this spring, have probably 250 - 300 rounds on clay and taken on a few pheasant hunts now. $710 at my local guy. Shoots OK but I'm new to an O/U and am improving. Guy I shoot clays with was pushing me to buy a Stoeger (sp?) but that was closer to $900. For the money it's a good value. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I went through the sticker shock phase looking at O/U shotguns. There's just not that much going into them that makes the $1000+ cost justifiable in my book. At any rate, I ended up with a CZ Canvasback from CDNN. Decent price and the gun goes bang every time.
Sorry, I just don't see it for the limited amount of shooting that I do. I've seen guys shooting skeet with a $7K side-by-side and the price tag didn't help him hit the clays. The CZ offering [it's a Turkish Huglu with a CZ stamp] @ $500 points as well as some of the O/Us out there costing 2-3x more. And when I said 'There's just that much going into them...' I mean the number and complexity of parts. My semi-auto has more moving parts than the O/U and costs a heck of a lot less. I'm sure fit and finish are better, but hundreds or thousands of dollars better? |
|
You can buy a nice CZ at the top of his price range. The CZ line is the best value there is right now on O/U shotguns.
link to CZ shotguns |
|
Quoted: so what advantage does a quality over/under give you over a cheap one? In terms of shooting maybe zero, depends on the shooter. In terms of material quality and appearance, very significant. I've out shot many, many guys with really expensive guns. Likewise, I've been out shot by guys with pieces of shit that looked like they had just been pulled out of the back of the tool shed somewhere. An expensive gun does not automatically make you a better shooter. |
|
Quoted:
O/U just like anything else can be extremely expensive. it is all in what you want. Beretta makes a very nice line of O/U. ranging from mildly priced to wildly priced. so does Browning. I prefer Beretta. it fits me better. you get what you pay for in the gun world. Stoger makes some inexpensive O/U. I would tell him to go to some place like Dicks and fondle all the O/U. you can tell the difference in quality, fit and finish, and mechanisms. I know the Dicks by me has guns that range from 300$ TO 2000$. A lot of it needs to be how the gun fits the shooter. how it throws up, points ect. then look for a gun in that line/brand in the price range he wants wheather it be online, another gun shop, or some where else. One of the clays clubs near me has a board for guns for sale and there is something on it all the time. There are some REALY NICE guns that can be had for not a lot of money. I'm talkin bout 3 and 4K$ for 1k. and 20k to 30k guns for 10k to 15k. I think that in terms dollar for dollar value the best out there is Beretta. I shoot a Krieghoff. |
|
Quoted:
You can buy a nice CZ at the top of his price range. The CZ line is the best value there is right now on O/U shotguns. link to CZ shotguns THIS. Finally some sensibility to counter a lot of BS in this thread. FWIW, the CZs are made by Huglu; same mfgr as the DeHaan's. 
|
|
Quoted:
so what advantage does a quality over/under give you over a cheap one? If you pulled the trigger on my K-80 you'd know all you need to know. Zero creep, zero overtravel, damn near zero reset. But there's much more, especially in terms of balance, fit, and finish. |
should he also get measured for his length of pull and get a shotgun that fits? i'm not a shotgun expert; just throwing out terms and things i've heard in the past. i figure you could buy an eleventy billion dollar shotgun, but if it doesnt fit right, you'll shoot for shit. unless if the shotgun has a guidance system
|
|
Quoted:
should he also get measured for his length of pull and get a shotgun that fits? i'm not a shotgun expert; just throwing out terms and things i've heard in the past. i figure you could buy an eleventy billion dollar shotgun, but if it doesnt fit right, you'll shoot for shit. unless if the shotgun has a guidance system With a shotgun fit is almost everything when it comes to scoring hits. Your eye is the rear sight and the bead is the front sight. The gun has to fit exactly the same each time you mount the gun in order to ensure the correct alignment between these two every time. This is impossible with a poorly fitted gun. BTW, stocks can be fitted after purchase. Look for a good stock bender in your area that can fit you and bend your stock. |
I personally know of 4 CZ's that were sent back for defects, barrels weren't regulated, inertia wouldn't cock the second barrel, the barrel selector wouldn't work and one opened up on firing.  All 4 were completely replaced with new guns. One of the returned guns also got replaced. They're throwaway guns, even to CZ. I had a DeHaan Sgr 2 that ran great and looked good, but I let it go for a Browning.
|
|
Quoted:
I own and shoot seven shotguns but only have one AR. I would pose this question on the Shooting Sportsman BBS or the Double Gun BBS if I were you/him- a lot more informed advice there. The gentlemen on there will give you the benefit of a lot of years of shotgun wisdom. I would personally avoid the cheapos, any Remington double as they keep adding and dropping models and most of the East European/Russkie guns. A good used Beretta or Browning would be a good choice. A used Win. 101 for 750-850 is hard to beat for quality and workmanship. The main concern for me with a long term relationship gun is repair and replacement parts availibility down the road, say 10 to 20 years from now. The Browning and Beretta will have both those concerns covered. He should handle a couple of different samples of each and shoot them if possible- they are very different animals. http://www.doublegunshop.com http://www.bbs.shootingsportsman.com Edited to fix the links. I don't post on the Shooting Sportsman website anymore but I have been posting on the doublegunshop.com site for 12-13 years and second this recommendation. I would also suggest a used shotgun. With some basic knowledge (and maybe help from a friend) you can judge the condition of a used gun quite well and you will get a lot more used gun for your $800 than you will with a new gun. So RatSass, who are you on doublegunshop? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
You can buy a nice CZ at the top of his price range. The CZ line is the best value there is right now on O/U shotguns. link to CZ shotguns THIS. Finally some sensibility to counter a lot of BS in this thread. FWIW, the CZs are made by Huglu; same mfgr as the DeHaan's. http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/catmissile/eewilson_100209.jpg?t=1255976660 While I have no interest in owning a Huglu, if I did, I would buy it from DeHaan. His warranty service is highly regarded, CZ's is not. |
|
Academy Sporting goods has Yildiz O/U shotguns. I just bought one a few months ago and haven't had any problems with it, but of course that's only a couple of hundred rounds so far. I do know several other TX HTF members that have the same gun and have put significantly more rounds through them without any issues. They sell for $399 new. Now you can obviously spend a lot more, but just like not everybody needs a $2000 AR, not everyone needs a $2000 shotgun. |