[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Using neighbors Internet. Bad? (Page 1 of 5)
Posted: 8/18/2009 2:57:30 PM EDT
| I just got a laptop with wifi. I never had that before. It is picking up 3 unsecure wireless networks. One of which I believe comes from a Smoothie shop across the road. Its blazing fast. Is it wrong? Im back on my line now but it was shocking to find out that I can get on other peoples networks so easily. |
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Not bad at all. Some people purposely run their WIFI unsecured as a public service.
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/01/securitymatters_0110 |
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Quoted: Quoted: Illegal, I believe. Really? I can understand that it may not be ethical and I wont use it but its a unsecured network sending radio waves into my living room. Seems like they don't care. If they don't care it wont be a big issue for you to go and ask permission will it? |
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Depends on what you download or look up  This. Only use others internet connection to download really sick shit you dont want your ISP to trace back to you.
x3 ETA... When I set up my wireless internet, It sets a password. If someone sets up their internet so a password is not necessary then they should know anyone can connect..... |
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Illegal, I believe. Unless they have ruled again, supreme court said if it isn't locked down it's public domain as every wireless router has security options you can choose to turn on. Now if you somehow gain access to a secured wireless network that is illegal. |
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I am using it to respond to this post right now. I believe it is ok. If they cared, they would have already put up a connection key. You're stealing bandwidth...just like stealing cable it's illegal. Just because they have not password protected it doesn't make it right. If they left their door unlocked would it be ok to steal their television? Technology makes it easy to blur the line between wrong and right...I am so tired of the complete lack of values I encounter day to day. |
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If they don't care it wont be a big issue for you to go and ask permission will it? You scan for wifi and you find six open networks that are all called "Linksys". Who the hell do you ask for permission? It's easy...you name your personal network, most businesses do. If you're coming up with a network that's unknown then obviously it's not yours. |
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Illegal, I believe. Unless they have ruled again, supreme court said if it isn't locked down it's public domain as every wireless router has security options you can choose to turn on. Now if you somehow gain access to a secured wireless network that is illegal. Wrong...geez, do you need the Supreme Court to rule on everything for you? Is Sotomayor going to be your conscience? |
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You have inspired me to set up an open WAP honeypot.  i enjoy doing this...then start packet sniffing etc. 
I think there was a thread on here a few years back about how to setup your router as a honeypot and then flip all the images upside down, or send every other page to goatse or other such nasty/funny things. |
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Quoted: Quoted: its wide open, use it and enjoy it, if they didnt want someone to use it, they would lock that shit down. Feel free to use their electrical outlets too. If they didn't want you to - they should lock them up. Here's the thing: If I use my neighbor's wifi connection, is he going to have to pay more for what I use? I pay a flat rate whether I use .5GB/mo or 10GB/mo. If I plug my fridge into a neighbor's outside AC socket, is he going to pay more for what I use? So if he's not having to pay more for what I use, what exactly has been stolen? |
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its wide open, use it and enjoy it, if they didnt want someone to use it, they would lock that shit down. Feel free to use their electrical outlets too. If they didn't want you to - they should lock them up. Here's the thing: If I use my neighbor's wifi connection, is he going to have to pay more for what I use? I pay a flat rate whether I use .5GB/mo or 10GB/mo. If I plug my fridge into a neighbor's outside AC socket, is he going to pay more for what I use? So if he's not having to pay more for what I use, what exactly has been stolen? What if a kiddie porn perv downloads and uploads that crap on their ISP connection, or commits wire fraud? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: its wide open, use it and enjoy it, if they didnt want someone to use it, they would lock that shit down. Feel free to use their electrical outlets too. If they didn't want you to - they should lock them up. Here's the thing: If I use my neighbor's wifi connection, is he going to have to pay more for what I use? I pay a flat rate whether I use .5GB/mo or 10GB/mo. If I plug my fridge into a neighbor's outside AC socket, is he going to pay more for what I use? So if he's not having to pay more for what I use, what exactly has been stolen? What if a kiddie porn perv downloads and uploads that crap on their ISP connection, or commits wire fraud? What was stolen, then? There's a difference between stealing something, and using something for illegal purposes. I've hopped on my neighbor's wifi a few times either to test things, or because my equipment was having issues. His network is open. I don't do anything nefarious, and he never knows and doesn't have to pay anything more for what I used. Did I steal something from him? |
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its wide open, use it and enjoy it, if they didnt want someone to use it, they would lock that shit down. Feel free to use their electrical outlets too. If they didn't want you to - they should lock them up. Here's the thing: If I use my neighbor's wifi connection, is he going to have to pay more for what I use? I pay a flat rate whether I use .5GB/mo or 10GB/mo. If I plug my fridge into a neighbor's outside AC socket, is he going to pay more for what I use? So if he's not having to pay more for what I use, what exactly has been stolen? What if a kiddie porn perv downloads and uploads that crap on their ISP connection, or commits wire fraud? What was stolen, then? There's a difference between stealing something, and using something for illegal purposes. I've hopped on my neighbor's wifi a few times either to test things, or because my equipment was having issues. His network is open. I don't do anything nefarious, and he never knows and doesn't have to pay anything more for what I used. Did I steal something from him? I am not going to get into this thread after this, but if his garage door was open, would it be ok to take his lawnmower without permission, mow your lawn, and return it with the same amount of gas in it? Just because an internet connection is not a physical thing, it is still wrong, to me, to borrow it without permission. I have helped all my neighbors secure theirs when I see an unsecured one pop up. |
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Here's a brain-twister: If I hop on my neighbor's wifi network and connect to the internet... who's network am I accessing? The neighbor's, or the ISPs? If it's the ISP, which is the same one I use and pay for... then where is the wrongdoing? The only wrongdoing in this case would be if I tried to access the neighbor's computers through this connection. There's nothing like WiFi that we can equivocate 'stealing' with. As I've mentioned, is it 'stealing' if the 'owner' of the network doesn't end up paying more for what other people use? What, of value, was taken? Can unwanted guests use the connection for nefarious or illegal activities? YES. But then, isn't the owner responsible for securing his own stuff? I don't know of ANY router manufacturer OR ISP that will NOT assist customers in setting up security. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: its wide open, use it and enjoy it, if they didnt want someone to use it, they would lock that shit down. Feel free to use their electrical outlets too. If they didn't want you to - they should lock them up. Here's the thing: If I use my neighbor's wifi connection, is he going to have to pay more for what I use? I pay a flat rate whether I use .5GB/mo or 10GB/mo. If I plug my fridge into a neighbor's outside AC socket, is he going to pay more for what I use? So if he's not having to pay more for what I use, what exactly has been stolen? What if a kiddie porn perv downloads and uploads that crap on their ISP connection, or commits wire fraud? What was stolen, then? There's a difference between stealing something, and using something for illegal purposes. I've hopped on my neighbor's wifi a few times either to test things, or because my equipment was having issues. His network is open. I don't do anything nefarious, and he never knows and doesn't have to pay anything more for what I used. Did I steal something from him? I am not going to get into this thread after this, but if his garage door was open, would it be ok to take his lawnmower without permission, mow your lawn, and return it with the same amount of gas in it? Just because an internet connection is not a physical thing, it is still wrong, to me, to borrow it without permission. I have helped all my neighbors secure theirs when I see an unsecured one pop up. If I borrowed your mower, and replaced the fuel in it, and you never knew, then what? What was taken? When did it not become your responsibility to secure your belongings? See my previous post. I place the responsibility on the 'owner' of the network. There's NO excuse not to have your stuff secured. To further my point... your wifi isn't something I had to TRESPASS to obtain. You're transmitting it into my home. Your example would be valid if you were to put your mower on my property before I used it and left it in the condition I found it. |
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meh, if they didnt want me to use it, they shouldn't have a router emitting radiowaves through my house for me to able to pick it up. if i was gonna use their mower, i would have to break the law illegally entering their home and taking physical possession of property. |
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Not bad at all. Some people purposely run their WIFI unsecured as a public service. http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2008/01/securitymatters_0110 Well why not suggest contacting the owners and asking? |
| I know in some states it is perfectly legal to use a program to capture the packets sent by the wireless router and computer, and with enough captured packets you can break their passkey. This is legal, but once you cross the line and actually get on their connection you are breaking the law. |
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its wide open, use it and enjoy it, if they didnt want someone to use it, they would lock that shit down. Feel free to use their electrical outlets too. If they didn't want you to - they should lock them up. Here's the thing: If I use my neighbor's wifi connection, is he going to have to pay more for what I use? I pay a flat rate whether I use .5GB/mo or 10GB/mo. If I plug my fridge into a neighbor's outside AC socket, is he going to pay more for what I use? So if he's not having to pay more for what I use, what exactly has been stolen? Its called "theft of service". If you do some basic legal searches on the Internet you'll find that this exact question has been examined, there IS case law on it and it *IS* illegal. You are wrongfully accessing your neighbor's network without their permission with the intent and purpose of using the ISP's network services (bandwidth etc) without paying for them. You are not a paying customer and you are secretly using the ISP's bandwidth for your own personal gain without paying for it. All ISP customers pay for the service that you are TAKING for free. There are many ways of trying to justify it (I have heard them all). Fact is - if your intentions are self-serving and dishonest - any reason someone invents serves those ends. They usually come down to "Wifi is virtual, not real" or "its in the air on my property - so its mine". All of these excuses have case law with convictions to back them. If someone REALLY thinks that this is honest and not to be ashamed of - call the ISP and tell them what you are doing. Give them your name and address. ETA: In a past thread (now probably in the Archive) I provided the case law citations. None of the people stealing bandwidth were interested in reading them (surprise). |
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Here's a brain-twister: If I hop on my neighbor's wifi network and connect to the internet... who's network am I accessing? The neighbor's, or the ISPs? If it's the ISP, which is the same one I use and pay for... then where is the wrongdoing? The only wrongdoing in this case would be if I tried to access the neighbor's computers through this connection. Not a brain twister at all. You're using both. You're accessing the ISP through someone else's paid connection. If you think there's nothing wrong with that, call your ISP and ask their opinion. They'll be happy to correct you and tell you that you access their network through your paid portal or you don't access it at all. As far as connecting to your neighbor's network wirelessly, it's not different than if you walked into his house, went to his ethernet switch, plugged in an extra long cord, and ran it back to your house. You're just not doing it physically. If you do it without permission, that makes you a giant douche at the very least. Trying to access his computers is not the "only" wrongdoing, it's just icing on your whole cake of wrongdoing. |
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Illegal, I believe. Unless they have ruled again, supreme court said if it isn't locked down it's public domain as every wireless router has security options you can choose to turn on. Now if you somehow gain access to a secured wireless network that is illegal. Can you cite this, because this is news to me! |