Posted: 7/4/2009 1:18:12 PM EDT
New ammunition (yes it is Remington Green Box), not a reload. Fired from my Sig P245. No jam associated with this case, no jams in 100 rounds. This was the only recovered case that appears damaged. It did not stovepipe or anything like that. The case ejected left over the firearm, to around 8 o'clock. Every other spent case flew to 4 or 5 o'clock. No damage to the firearm. I disassembled it after this case ejected, reassembled and ran another 50 plus rounds through with no issues. So, weak case? Overcharged? Something else?
Sorry for the lousy pics, I rarely try to take anything in macro mode and I need more practice I guess. 
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That's weird. It doesn't look like it could have happened while in the gun unless it was a stove pipe, but you would have had to clear it then. Just weird. 
Was this a place where only your brass would be found? The range was clear of brass and it ejected left instead of right so I immediately went looking for it and picked it up warm. Did not stove pipe, the damndest thing I've seen. |
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It obviously hit something while being or after ejection. A weak case or overcharge couldn't cause the case mouth to bend inwards like that. It was in the grass, doubt hitting grass would have done that. I'm wondering how it could do that bouncing off the firearm without the firearm jamming. I'm no expert, that's why I'm asking. |
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Was is absolutely in 100% condition before firing?
I ask because me and other fellow practical shooters (yes, the alphabet sports) have been noticing a higher incidence of malformed factory rounds - likely due to loosened QC as they are ramping up production to meet demand. |
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Was is absolutely in 100% condition before firing? I ask because me and other fellow practical shooters (yes, the alphabet sports) have been noticing a higher incidence of malformed factory rounds - likely due to loosened QC as they are ramping up production to meet demand. I didn't notice any issues when loading the mags, wasn't really being hyper-vigilant either. Nothing struck me as out of the ordinary. |
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It obviously hit something while being or after ejection. A weak case or overcharge couldn't cause the case mouth to bend inwards like that. It was in the grass, doubt hitting grass would have done that. I'm wondering how it could do that bouncing off the firearm without the firearm jamming. I'm no expert, that's why I'm asking. Damn...quit changing your avatar around. I didn't even notice it was you when I replied. Anyway, I don't know how it did it either but the case mouth had to hit something. Could it be that it partially stovepiped but got flipped out before it caused a jam? The way the case is situated in the second pic, is the ejector mark on the right side? |
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Wild-ass-guess - failure to eject, and the slide returning to battery forced the mouth of the case into the top of the breech and then out of the gun in the non-typical direction?  interesting theory The only plausible possibility. Unless someone was cutting the grass while he was shooting and ran over it with the lawn mower 
Pretty amazing it didn't cause a jam with that kind of damage done. |
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The only plausible possibility. Unless someone was cutting the grass while he was shooting and ran over it with the lawn mower
Pretty amazing it didn't cause a jam with that kind of damage done. Not the only possibility. Another is that the case was, in fact, already damaged in some way before it was fired. I'm not saying that it looked the same beforehand; just that it might have been structurally compromised in some way, and then after firing (such as during ejection) it ended up in the final state. |
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Had similar things happen with a 1911 that had a bad extractor, and an almost identical case once from a Sig P228 (although that one actually jammed the gun, but the case looked similar)...the case mouth hit either the side of the slide or side of the barrel hood on it's way out, and got pinched by the slide closing. Check the extractor and any springs that may or may not be involved with it, make sure it's all in working order. It's possible the extractor either slipped on extracting it, or something else interfered with it...
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The only plausible possibility. Unless someone was cutting the grass while he was shooting and ran over it with the lawn mower
Pretty amazing it didn't cause a jam with that kind of damage done. Not the only possibility. Another is that the case was, in fact, already damaged in some way before it was fired. I'm not saying that it looked the same beforehand; just that it might have been structurally compromised in some way, and then after firing (such as during ejection) it ended up in the final state. I don't see how, even a damaged case, could have been caved inward like that after firing, unless it was smashed long ways between something. It may have been a deformed case before hand which helped cause the FTE and the weakened brass was more prone to damage. But it had to have been pinched between the slide and chamber face. |
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The only plausible possibility. Unless someone was cutting the grass while he was shooting and ran over it with the lawn mower
Pretty amazing it didn't cause a jam with that kind of damage done. Not the only possibility. Another is that the case was, in fact, already damaged in some way before it was fired. I'm not saying that it looked the same beforehand; just that it might have been structurally compromised in some way, and then after firing (such as during ejection) it ended up in the final state. I don't see how, even a damaged case, could have been caved inward like that after firing, unless it was smashed long ways between something. It may have been a deformed case before hand which helped cause the FTE and the weakened brass was more prone to damage. But it had to have been pinched between the slide and chamber face. See the post below yours (with the pic). I've seen far more extreme cases lately as well. One side could have already been deformed, and then the other just gets caught & dented during ejection. Case mouths being dented on ejection is not a rare occurance in the least, and if the brass was compromised, it could deform excessively. During my time shooting shotguns in college, we saw all manner of crazy bad-QC shells, particularly with regard to the interface between head and hull - the head being crumpled (like the brass here), the platic extending over the head, etc. Many of these were only discovered after firing - they generally would result in a FTE in semis, but people with pumps and O/Us wouldn't notice until they picked up their hulls. |
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It obviously hit something while being or after ejection. A weak case or overcharge couldn't cause the case mouth to bend inwards like that. It was in the grass, doubt hitting grass would have done that. I'm wondering how it could do that bouncing off the firearm without the firearm jamming. I'm no expert, that's why I'm asking. It must have collided with a rod before it went into the grass. |
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looking at the round that i found, and test fitting it in a chamber, i would have to say that if this round was used, it would be hard for the gun to chamber it.
it would however go in if i let the slide do the work. i am guessing that if this round were fired, it would be hard to extract as well, causing an abnormal ejection. possibly causing the slide to "slap" the rim and dent it further on ejection. just my $.02 ETA...HiramRanger, did you inspect the ejection port on the gun to see if there were any brass marks indicating if it were the frame that may have caused this damage? |