SHTF Pistol ? - AR15.COM

Posted: 1/11/2002 8:47:21 AM EDT

Ok it's my falt I forgot to tell you all what this firearm is going to be used for. I know a lot of you voted in my last one but may have not known what I was going to use this pistol for so here I go.

This gun is going to be away from home carry gun is that my wife his the pistol she is use to shooting. It is also going to be my SHTF pistol a little back up for the FAL if I have to reload the mags or enter a place where a pistol would be better then a rifle. It also going to be a plinking gun for gun.

I only Have $475 at most to spend on the gun and that is going to take a lot away from my ammo and mag money to.

Posted: 1/11/2002 8:53:35 AM EDT

[#1]

Also why would you pick this firearm.

Posted: 1/11/2002 8:59:35 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Also why would you pick this firearm.

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... Minimal moving parts, it should be stainless as well.

Posted: 1/11/2002 9:19:27 AM EDT

[#3]

I went for the 357 mag, even though I still don't know what SHTF scenario I'm protecting myself against.

Posted: 1/11/2002 9:22:14 AM EDT

[#4]

I will go for the good old reliable S&W .357

Posted: 1/11/2002 9:25:07 AM EDT

[#5]

The Smith listed is hard to beat!

Posted: 1/11/2002 9:31:19 AM EDT

[#6]

686

Posted: 1/11/2002 9:33:14 AM EDT

[#7]

I "third" the thumbs-up for the Smith. The .357 has it hands down over the 9mm. Get some dummy rounds, Speed-Strips and/or Speed loaders and get used to making reloads while you're watching TV. Of course, train, train, train...

Edited to say "had there been a .40 or .45 auto in the mix somewhere, I might be swayed from the 686".

Posted: 1/11/2002 10:09:13 AM EDT

[#8]

I love my makarov.

I feel that it is well made, accurate, and reliable.

i actually enjoy shooting it as much as my HK USP, and think that it's the best gun deal out. ($100???? CHEAP!!)

I would feel comfortable carrying the gun with me if TSHTF. nice and compact.

Shawn

Posted: 1/11/2002 10:12:55 AM EDT

[#9]

Glock 19 9mm, 2 15rd full caps with Winchester 147gr Black Tallons, and Meprolite NS.

This is my carry / SHTF pistol.

It is the rite size for CC and packs one hell of a punch.

Wcoyote

Posted: 1/11/2002 10:13:26 AM EDT

[#10]

Well, for SHTF I'd go with the Taurus (Actually I'd go with the Beretta 92, but the Taurus is about the same...)

But for a carry gun, I'd look for something that wasn't as bulky... so it's reall two questions.

If SHTF, carry concealed may not really be an issue, but if not, concealment is an issue.

Posted: 1/11/2002 10:20:05 AM EDT

[#11]

what, no 1911?

Posted: 1/11/2002 10:21:35 AM EDT

[#12]

For this I took mostly inconsideration ammo availability when and if a SHTF ever does happen. Also weight is taken in ,Mag clip or speed loaded availability and convents of the clips mags or speed loader. I have a Glock 22 that the wife would use do to that she knows how to use it. I don't know of any good inexpensive 45acp that are under $400. I

picked the 9mm's because they have hi-cap mags a dime a dozen and the firearms them self don't cost that much and ammo is $49.99 for 500rds and if the SHTF 9mm is the NATO standard round so there will be a lot of it..

I picked the wheel gun's because I like wheel guns and the 38spl and 357mag ammo you can get fairly cheap. Speed loaders are $5-$7 each and it is versatile I could use it for hunting if I had to. I would have picked a 45acp wheel gun but I can't find any heavy barrel ones for sale and from the last time I saw one for sale it cost a lot.

Posted: 1/11/2002 10:23:08 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
what, no 1911?

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Do you know of any good ones for under $400? If so I'd like to here it because I would pick a 45acp if I could fine one.

Posted: 1/11/2002 10:27:03 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Glock 19 9mm, 2 15rd full caps with Winchester 147gr Black Tallons, and Meprolite NS.

This is my carry / SHTF pistol.

It is the rite size for CC and packs one hell of a punch.

Wcoyote

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It will also set me back $500 that I don't have. I love my glock 22 and I would get a 17,19,23 but they cost to much.

Posted: 1/11/2002 11:03:54 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
what, no 1911?

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Do you know of any good ones for under $400? If so I'd like to here it because I would pick a 45acp if I could fine one.

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If you truly want a 1911 style auto, look at the Charles Daily. Close to your price range. And, of course, there are used guns out the wazoo. You might look at the Taurus Millenium line, and see what you think of their 10 shot .45 ACP DAO plastic gun. Make a good concealed carry piece, nice and light.

Me, I'd think seriously about a revolver; the .357 is never a bad choice, but not my favorite. I prefer the .45 Colt and have 3 revolvers chambered in that (and one has a .45 ACP cylinder, in case I need to shoot dubious quality .45 auto ammo, when the SHTF).

Posted: 1/11/2002 11:10:32 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
what, no 1911?

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Do you know of any good ones for under $400? If so I'd like to here it because I would pick a 45acp if I could fine one.

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If you truly want a 1911 style auto, look at the Charles Daily. Close to your price range. And, of course, there are used guns out the wazoo. You might look at the Taurus Millenium line, and see what you think of their 10 shot .45 ACP DAO plastic gun. Make a good concealed carry piece, nice and light.

Me, I'd think seriously about a revolver; the .357 is never a bad choice, but not my favorite. I prefer the .45 Colt and have 3 revolvers chambered in that (and one has a .45 ACP cylinder, in case I need to shoot dubious quality .45 auto ammo, when the SHTF).

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Do you know where they have any for sale? Also what have you guys heard about Rock Island's 45's

Posted: 1/11/2002 11:50:56 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Do you know of any good ones for under $400? If so I'd like to here it because I would pick a 45acp if I could fine one.

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Look for a Argentina Sistema Colt (M1927).

Posted: 1/11/2002 11:51:48 AM EDT

[#18]

686 is reliable. Function not dependent on load for proper function like auto. Can shoot 38 or 357.

Posted: 1/11/2002 11:57:58 AM EDT

[#19]

For a SHTF gun you need durable, reliable, easy to work on, and availability of spare parts and magazines.

The S&W isn't bad, but give me a Glock 19!! More durable than either of the auto-loaders you mentioned. Parts are very common and it will take G19 or G17 magazines. Minimal part count. Besides the only tool you need to work in it is a punch.

9mm is the most common round in the world. Its not the best, but its the easiest to find.

Posted: 1/11/2002 12:01:36 PM EDT

[#20]

From the choices given, I voted for the S&W.
Truthfully, I'd rather vote for:
RUGER KGP-141.
Stainless, full lug, 4"bb., sights.
Much stronger than the S&W.
Less expensive to purchase new, too.
She might like the factory grip better.
Check it out.

Posted: 1/11/2002 12:09:10 PM EDT

[#21]

I would think that you would be in a real bad spot if you had to carry any of these for a SHTH scenerio. What you need is a HK usp in .45 or a good old 1911. That is the only true SHTF way to go!

Posted: 1/11/2002 12:14:00 PM EDT

[#22]

For a SHTF pistol my choice 1s a GLOCK .40 cal, any flavor (27,23,22,24, or the ultimate 35). Reason? You can get an aftermarket 9mm drop in barrel, and if you want to go nuts, a .357 sig. Prescious little extra weight and bulk for such ammo versitility. I would start with .40 because it hits harder and lots of police are carrying it these days, so there will be some out there to share or scavenge. Also, you can drop a 9mm barrel in a .40, but not the other way around. The .357 barrel only if local LEO use them (see above). Mags- .357 uses the same mags as the .40. In a pinch you can use .40 mags for 9mm, but feeding is not 100%, so get a few 10 rd $15 9mm mags. again, very little bulk compared to another pistol in anther caliber.

Posted: 1/11/2002 12:22:45 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I would think that you would be in a real bad spot if you had to carry any of these for a SHTH scenerio. What you need is a HK usp in .45 or a good old 1911. That is the only true SHTF way to go!

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I only have $475 that I can spend on this pistol I need some money left over for shipping FFL fee mags and ammo. But if you know where an HK USP 45 is for that much I'd love to buy it.

Posted: 1/11/2002 12:35:47 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I only have $475 that I can spend on this pistol I need some money left over for shipping FFL fee mags and ammo. But if you know where an HK USP 45 is for that much I'd love to buy it.

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For that kind of $$ look for a used police trade in Glock 19. Beside my other points (see above) you will find the G19 (or G23) sized pistol is small enough for CCW, but large enough for a service pistol (i.e. decent MV and sight radius).

Posted: 1/11/2002 1:36:36 PM EDT

[#25]

For SHTF the Madusa revolver or Madusa converted S&W 357 Then you can use almost any handgun ammo in the 9mm, 357 bore size.

www.phillipsrodgers.com/index.html

Posted: 1/11/2002 1:45:12 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I only have $475 that I can spend on this pistol I need some money left over for shipping FFL fee mags and ammo. But if you know where an HK USP 45 is for that much I'd love to buy it.

View Quote

For that kind of $$ look for a used police trade in Glock 19. Beside my other points (see above) you will find the G19 (or G23) sized pistol is small enough for CCW, but large enough for a service pistol (i.e. decent MV and sight radius).

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My state is not a Free state so we don't have ccw this pistol would just be for the hotel. The cheapest I have seen used Glock 17,19,22 and 23 is for about $450 to $480

Posted: 1/11/2002 4:18:34 PM EDT

[#27]

btt

Posted: 1/11/2002 4:45:48 PM EDT

[#28]

This is a really personal choice. I would suggest going to a range with rentals and trying several.

My SHTF choice if I ever really thought I needed one, which I don't, would be a Browning buckmark .22 and a good .22 rifle. Inexpensive mags, very accurate, ubiquitous ammo and I could carry thousands of rounds in a backpack. A hit always beats a loud bang and I would suggest that all but the insane would be affraid to get shot with anything.

Posted: 1/11/2002 7:18:49 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
This is a really personal choice. I would suggest going to a range with rentals and trying several.

My SHTF choice if I ever really thought I needed one, which I don't, would be a Browning buckmark .22 and a good .22 rifle. Inexpensive mags, very accurate, ubiquitous ammo and I could carry thousands of rounds in a backpack. A hit always beats a loud bang and I would suggest that all but the insane would be affraid to get shot with anything.

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The only bad thing about the 22LR is that it is not a good man stopper. I have to say I do have a old Remington bolt action 22 and yes it will be good for small game when the time comes but I'm looking for something that can stop a man In one or two shot's.

Posted: 1/11/2002 7:22:37 PM EDT

[#30]

I just found a 2 generation Glock 23 for $389.99 +$16 S&H and a generation 3 for $450.00 so I'm going to look in to thou and see what I can come up with.

Posted: 1/11/2002 7:25:39 PM EDT

[#31]

S&W 686 4 inch barrel 357 mag

Gets my vote. I was just checking a 686 plus in stainless with 4" barrel out last weekend at a flea market. Nice revolver. Damn the S&W mgmt., guess I'll just keep my eye out for a nice Ruger.

Posted: 1/11/2002 7:42:48 PM EDT

[#32]

Please understand my point given a " manstopper ". I've been a cop for 16 years. I also teach basic and advanced combat shooting. With my duty gun a 1991A1 I hit the primary target area in training about 99% of the time, everyone is entitled to an occaisional flyer. That translates into about 75% if I were to move that scenario to real combat. With the 45 I would expect at least 2 hits to stop an attacker.

With my Buckmark I can afford alot more practice. I can put four rounds in the T zone in the same amount of time. Any of those 4 are immediatly incapacitating. Convert to real combat, all four would be in the acceptable area. Thus my contention that the .22 is a viable option. In the endgame scenario you are thinking of I would guess merely showing the pistol would be sufficient to avoid the fight. If not 4 fast hits is more likely to provide the desired results. The extra practice one could afford, combined with the availability and ease of scrounging ammo would outweigh the potential downside of lower power. My contention being that noone wants to get shot therefore would avoid it if confronted.

I would venture that if I were on my own volition ( not the department's ) and could have only one pistol it would be the .22 .

In your case however given your preference I would suggest the glock.

Posted: 1/11/2002 8:09:18 PM EDT

[#33]

I just like something in cocked and locked mode.

Posted: 1/12/2002 1:05:22 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Please understand my point given a " manstopper ". I've been a cop for 16 years. I also teach basic and advanced combat shooting. With my duty gun a 1991A1 I hit the primary target area in training about 99% of the time, everyone is entitled to an occaisional flyer. That translates into about 75% if I were to move that scenario to real combat. With the 45 I would expect at least 2 hits to stop an attacker.

With my Buckmark I can afford alot more practice. I can put four rounds in the T zone in the same amount of time. Any of those 4 are immediatly incapacitating. Convert to real combat, all four would be in the acceptable area. Thus my contention that the .22 is a viable option. In the endgame scenario you are thinking of I would guess merely showing the pistol would be sufficient to avoid the fight. If not 4 fast hits is more likely to provide the desired results. The extra practice one could afford, combined with the availability and ease of scrounging ammo would outweigh the potential downside of lower power. My contention being that noone wants to get shot therefore would avoid it if confronted.

I would venture that if I were on my own volition ( not the department's ) and could have only one pistol it would be the .22 .

In your case however given your preference I would suggest the glock.

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True on what you say but with the body armor that is out today and being so cheap I think I'd want something that if It did hit them it may at lest knock them down.

Just look at the Hollywood bank robbery the two guy where taking 9mm rounds left and right. I think if they had a little more powerfully round maybe they could have at least knocked them down with a few round's.

My cosine is Chicago PD and his beat is Robert Tailer homes (If you don't know what they are just anyone that knows Chicago about them.)He has told me that on many times the 40 S&W or 9mm he use or has seen used where not effective on guys that where drugged up.

I think the Illinois State PD also had the same problem a few years ago where a crazed drugged gun man was coming at them and the officers shot him about 20 times and he did not fall until a county officer came in with a 12ga.

I have also used an ASP on a guy a few years ago and shattered his knee cap after he punched a nurse and two of my other officers the guy ran off after I smacked him. We caught him in about 1 min after he ran his knee gave out. But the guy had so much PCP and LSD in him he did not even feel it.

Now after hearing that and reading and after working in a hospital in the suburbs of Chicago for 2 years and dealing with drunks and drug junkies I would never take a 22lr in combat. Maybe that is just me but I feel you always need a little knock down power.

Posted: 1/12/2002 4:53:04 AM EDT

[#35]

Glock no matter what the caliber.

Posted: 1/12/2002 5:38:17 AM EDT

[#36]

S&W 686,
Okay, just because I have 3 of them.

Posted: 1/12/2002 6:04:58 AM EDT

[#37]

Whatever it takes to to get me to my rifle!!

Posted: 1/12/2002 9:17:19 AM EDT

[#38]

Get the GLOCK 23. Don't look back. You can get a drop in 9mm barrel, and hi-caps in either caliber later. BTW, i didn't mention the Advantagew Arms .22 upper you can put on to make it a .22. But even with a $15 post ban 10 rd mag, a GLOCK 23 is an excellent "business" handgun.

Posted: 1/12/2002 9:23:29 AM EDT

[#39]

The .357 686 as it's always 100%

[b]always[/b] is a long long time for a semi-automatic anything

Posted: 1/12/2002 10:46:44 PM EDT

[#40]

btt

Posted: 1/12/2002 11:00:15 PM EDT

[#41]

Given your scenario (envision a combat situation) I think it's a given that you should forget the revolvers (flame suit on) because the simple fact of the matter is that you want firepower. You can load up that cz-75 with nearly 3 times the ammo and reload umpteen times faster. It takes A LOT of practice to reload quickly with speedloaders and even then you can still do it faster with the auto.
Of these 4 with the given situation I think the cz would be hard to beat.

btw I have a Smith m66 and I love it. the cz is just more practical given his parameters.

Posted: 1/13/2002 5:10:47 PM EDT

[#42]

Think about the taurus PT 92.High caps are much cheaper than the glock and it is every bit as reliable and durable.I have one that has over 2k rnds without a hitch.I prefer the glock in any caliber cause it fits my hand better but I hate $100 plus high caps.

Posted: 1/14/2002 12:45:22 AM EDT

[#43]

btt

Posted: 1/14/2002 4:06:31 AM EDT

[#44]

oh boy, you are going to get as many different answers as there are members.. but you dont list mine.

baretta 92 fs with night sights and maximun capacity mags.

Posted: 1/14/2002 5:16:30 AM EDT

[#45]

baretta 92 fs with night sights and maximun capacity mags.

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When you say maximum capacity, do you man those SAS style 20 and 30 rounders? Or just non-pc pre ban? I'm curious, as I have some Scherer 29 round mags for my GLOCKS and don't like them very much. They function fine, but the balance is bad, makes a reholstering difficult if you need a free hand, and limits ability to shoot over the hood of a car, etc.. I've decided a second 15 rounder has a lot more advantages, and the reload speed is not that much of a drawback. Of course the SAS appears to have different ideas, and they certainly know what they're doing!

(p.s., I know the SAS uses primarily a BHP, not Baretta, it's just the easiest way to Id what I'm talking about, and put it in context. I have seen ads for this style of mags for Barretta, but don't have one so I don't follow too closely.)

Posted: 1/14/2002 5:20:10 AM EDT

[#46]

[url]http://www.birdman.org/products/M82pistol.htm[/url]

Birdman Weapons Systems Barrett M82B1-P .50 BMG Pistol.

Posted: 1/14/2002 5:45:30 AM EDT

[#47]

The unending discussion......

Most important considerations are:
1. Is gun RELIABLE to the max?
2. Can I hit my target with it at very high percentage of success?

Only after you achieve the first two do you consider the caliber!!

I can hit a pie pan at 50 yds with my .22LR at 95% or better - all day. Admittedly low powered round but a headshot is a headshot. Beats heck out of being unarmed!

I love my .45s! Little less accurate and follow-up is slower but hits HARD. Can you say center of mass?

PA-63 9x18 is small and light. Great to carry. Similar in energy to .38 special. For me it is accurate and comfortable. Fun little gun even if a touch short on energy. Once again, the gun you have is ALWAYS better than the one you left behind, ALWAYS.

Just becoming familiar with my compact 10 mm. Certainly adequate in the energy department. 10 + 1 rounds. Yesterday I was busting a 30 LB Freon jug at 175 yards - completely amazing myself. Didn't think it was possible, let alone hitting it 1/3 of the time with others as near misses. At sensible range it is as accuarte as anything I have. Further research eminent!

Which is best? To conceal, the PA-63. To be certain the guy stops, 10mm or .45 seems best. To eat when SHTF, the Ruger Mark II - whole brick of ammo is easy to carry.

Buy something you like then fire it a LOT. Make it second nature to handle. Shoot it under all kinds of simulated conditions. Remember a headshot ALWAYS wins even with a .22LR! Not that center of mass isn't the more correct method and should be primary focus, be able to adapt to the conditions at hand.

Posted: 1/14/2002 8:28:12 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Glock no matter what the caliber.

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Hell yeah! And as has been mentioned, you can get the .22 conversion kit. Wish they made one for the 10mm/.45 ACP model glocks.

Read up on the C. Daly 1911s. Haven't heard too many good things about them...

From the list, I'd pick the 686.

Posted: 1/14/2002 8:30:31 AM EDT

[#49]

I voted for CZ-75B 9mm, but I like my Glock21's 13+1 .45acp ability.

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