[ARCHIVED THREAD] - PC Question (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/11/2009 11:12:55 AM EDT
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I feel like a big dummy.
I took my PC outside to blow out the dust. I saw the internal battery and noticed it was the same type of battery my wife's car remote uses. Since I had a brand-new battery on hand, I thought I'd change it out. Well, now my PC won't boot up. I turn on the power and nothing happens, except the cooling fan runs on high. 
Anyone have a clue as to what I should do? 
Thanks in advance! |
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did you lose your CMOS settings? That's probably what happened. Usually there is a way to reset CMOS to a default configuration that works but may not be optimal, by shorting out two pins that are in the vicinity of the battery. It should have something like "CMOS reset" printed on the board. |
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did you lose your CMOS settings? That's probably what happened. Usually there is a way to reset CMOS to a default configuration that works but may not be optimal, by shorting out two pins that are in the vicinity of the battery. It should have something like "CMOS reset" printed on the board. Definitely. The complementary metal oxide semiconductor memory is what configures the basic input-output system. As such, the computer does not know how to boot or even what hard drive is installed so the drive controller does not know how to access the boot sector on the hard drive. What brand and model? Fortunately, most controllers can query the drive to determine the cylinders, heads and sectors. DO NOT ZAP THE CMOS!!! |
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did you lose your CMOS settings? That's probably what happened. Usually there is a way to reset CMOS to a default configuration that works but may not be optimal, by shorting out two pins that are in the vicinity of the battery. It should have something like "CMOS reset" printed on the board. Definitely. The complementary metal oxide semiconductor memory is what configures the basic input-output system. As such, the computer does not know how to boot or even what hard drive is installed so the drive controller does not know how to access the boot sector on the hard drive. What brand and model? Fortunately, most controllers can query the drive to determine the cylinders, heads and sectors. DO NOT ZAP THE CMOS!!! I'm not going to pretend I know a thing about PCs, but from what I've been reading since posting this question, I believe this is what happened. The PC is an Emachines T6520. |
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Just to be sure on this, it was a CR2032 or CR2016, right? A Quarter sized 3V Lithium "Button" cell? If it looked the same, and you put in a 6V/12V "Cylindrical" cell from a remote starter, you could have fried the motherboard. If it is the same type (3V Lithium), there should be a jumper on the motherboard for "Clear CMOS", with the power off, remove the battery, and move the jumper across "Clear", then move the jumper back to "normal", insert battery, and boot. Sometimes when the NVRAM/BIOS gets corrupted, the computer won't do anything at all. That's what the little jumper is for. It completely erases all SRAM (CMOS/NVRAM/"BIOS") information, so that on the next boot, the default/failsafe copy is loaded from ROM. From there, you simply configure it again. |
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Just to be sure on this, it was a CR2032 or CR2016, right? A Quarter sized 3V Lithium "Button" cell? If it looked the same, and you put in a 6V/12V "Cylindrical" cell from a remote starter, you could have fried the motherboard. If it is the same type (3V Lithium), there should be a jumper on the motherboard for "Clear CMOS", with the power off, remove the battery, and move the jumper across "Clear", then move the jumper back to "normal", insert battery, and boot. Sometimes when the NVRAM/BIOS gets corrupted, the computer won't do anything at all. That's what the little jumper is for. It completely erases all SRAM (CMOS/NVRAM/"BIOS") information, so that on the next boot, the default/failsafe copy is loaded from ROM. From there, you simply configure it again. Yes, the batteries are the same. The old battery was a Panasonic 3V CR2032. The new battery is a Rayovac 3V Lithium CR2032. Looking at the motherboard, I do not see a jumper. Would this be in the vicinity of the battery? |
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Just to be sure on this, it was a CR2032 or CR2016, right? A Quarter sized 3V Lithium "Button" cell? If it looked the same, and you put in a 6V/12V "Cylindrical" cell from a remote starter, you could have fried the motherboard. If it is the same type (3V Lithium), there should be a jumper on the motherboard for "Clear CMOS", with the power off, remove the battery, and move the jumper across "Clear", then move the jumper back to "normal", insert battery, and boot. Sometimes when the NVRAM/BIOS gets corrupted, the computer won't do anything at all. That's what the little jumper is for. It completely erases all SRAM (CMOS/NVRAM/"BIOS") information, so that on the next boot, the default/failsafe copy is loaded from ROM. From there, you simply configure it again. Yes, the batteries are the same. The old battery was a Panasonic 3V CR2032. The new battery is a Rayovac 3V Lithium CR2032. Looking at the motherboard, I do not see a jumper. Would this be in the vicinity of the battery? Yes. But first get the instructions for the motherboard before you go dinking with jumpers. You need to enter the BIOS setup to reinit the CMOS memory, that is all. Most boards auto-detect once entered. |
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If the only thing that happens when he turns on the power is the cooling fan running on high, he may have to reset the CMOS to force it to go into the CMOS configuration program. I've had similar situations happen a few times. It will probably auto-detect everything correctly.
The previous configuration had to have been lost when he pulled the old battery. Sometimes it ends up in an invalid state. |
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The PC is an Emachines T6520. The Motherboard in that is an MSI RC410-M Here is the manual for it, it will explain how to reset the Motherboard: http://www.retrevo.com/support/MSI-RC410M-F-manual/id/8354ag113/t/2/ Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. Are you sure that is my motherboard? Printed on mine is RS480M. |
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You'll probably have to look at the manual to find the jumper (it might just be labeled J23 or something). The jumpers look like this....(CLR_CMOS) http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5286/fp35abuttonscx1.jpg RF Here's a pic of my MB's battery. I'm guessing the jumper is the item next to the batt in green? What is the process in "jumping" it? 
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It lost your settings on what your hard drive is. Thats why it won't boot. Just go into your setup when it flashes on the screen and tell the BIOS what your drive(s) is/are. He isn't getting anything on the screen. That is correct. My monitor is totally blank. |
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Definitely. The complementary metal oxide semiconductor memory is what configures the basic input-output system. As such, the computer does not know how to boot or even what hard drive is installed so the drive controller does not know how to access the boot sector on the hard drive. What brand and model? Fortunately, most controllers can query the drive to determine the cylinders, heads and sectors. DO NOT ZAP THE CMOS!!! CMOS is a misnomer. It is a manufacturing process. 
 
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Quoted: Quoted: You'll probably have to look at the manual to find the jumper (it might just be labeled J23 or something). The jumpers look like this....(CLR_CMOS) http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5286/fp35abuttonscx1.jpg RF Here's a pic of my MB's battery. I'm guessing the jumper is the item next to the batt in green? What is the process in "jumping" it? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/100_1692.jpg Unplug system Pull jumper, it looks like it's only a "power switch", if there is a third pin in the block, Remove battery, put jumper over other pin. Push the "Power On" button on system (With it unplugged!) Wait 30 seconds. Hit "Power On" again. Wait about 2 more minutes, as it doesn't appear to have a "force discharge" pin (3rd pin on jumper block) Use this time to reseat all PCI cards and RAM DIMMs, just unplug them, make sure no dirt was forced into the socket from cleaning, and plug back into the same spot. make sure processor is seated all of the way and the locking lever is down to clamp the pins, it shouldn't wiggle at all. Also reseat all power connectors to motherboard and drives. replace battery put jumper back in original position. add power to system. Turn on. Should come right up and say "CMOS Error, Defaults Loaded" or something to that effect, and then put you into setup. Then pick the choice along the lines of "Default settings" or "Standard Settings", set the clock to about the correct time, save, and reboot. Should come up into windows with no problems. If it doesn't, leave the jumper off for about 10 minutes to a half hour. Otherwise, if you hit it too hard with the compressed air, something might have gotten damaged.  |
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Here is the correct manual: http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=downloaddetail&type=manual&maincat_no=1&prod_no=204 Clear CMOS Jumper: JBAT1 There is a CMOS RAM on board that has a power supply from external battery to keep the system configuration data. With the CMOS RAM, the system can automatically boot OS every time it is turned on. If you want to clear the system configuration, use the JBAT1 (Clear CMOS Jumper ) to clear data. Follow the instructions below to clear the data: MSI Reminds You... You can clear CMOS by shorting 2-3 pin while the system is off. Then return to 1-2 pin position. Avoid clearing the CMOS while the system is on; it will damage the mainboard. |
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You'll probably have to look at the manual to find the jumper (it might just be labeled J23 or something). The jumpers look like this....(CLR_CMOS) http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5286/fp35abuttonscx1.jpg RF Here's a pic of my MB's battery. I'm guessing the jumper is the item next to the batt in green? What is the process in "jumping" it? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Metroliner/100_1692.jpg Unplug system Pull jumper, it looks like it's only a "power switch", if there is a third pin in the block, Remove battery, put jumper over other pin. Push the "Power On" button on system (With it unplugged!) Wait 30 seconds. Hit "Power On" again. Wait about 2 more minutes, as it doesn't appear to have a "force discharge" pin (3rd pin on jumper block) Use this time to reseat all PCI cards and RAM DIMMs, just unplug them, make sure no dirt was forced into the socket from cleaning, and plug back into the same spot. make sure processor is seated all of the way and the locking lever is down to clamp the pins, it shouldn't wiggle at all. Also reseat all power connectors to motherboard and drives. replace battery put jumper back in original position. add power to system. Turn on. Should come right up and say "CMOS Error, Defaults Loaded" or something to that effect, and then put you into setup. Then pick the choice along the lines of "Default settings" or "Standard Settings", set the clock to about the correct time, save, and reboot. Should come up into windows with no problems. If it doesn't, leave the jumper off for about 10 minutes to a half hour. Otherwise, if you hit it too hard with the compressed air, something might have gotten damaged.
I'll give this a try. Stand by....... |
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Here is the correct manual: http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=downloaddetail&type=manual&maincat_no=1&prod_no=204 Clear CMOS Jumper: JBAT1 There is a CMOS RAM on board that has a power supply from external battery to keep the system configuration data. With the CMOS RAM, the system can automatically boot OS every time it is turned on. If you want to clear the system configuration, use the JBAT1 (Clear CMOS Jumper ) to clear data. Follow the instructions below to clear the data: MSI Reminds You... You can clear CMOS by shorting 2-3 pin while the system is off. Then return to 1-2 pin position. Avoid clearing the CMOS while the system is on; it will damage the mainboard. Your awesome! Thanks, I'll give this a try! |
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It lost your settings on what your hard drive is. Thats why it won't boot. Just go into your setup when it flashes on the screen and tell the BIOS what your drive(s) is/are. He isn't getting anything on the screen. That is correct. My monitor is totally blank. Sorry didn't know that. |
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I'm on dial up, the manual download will take almost an hour. This is what I did: - Pulled jumper. - Removed battery. - Installed jumper over 2nd and 3rd pin. - Hit power sw. - Waited 30+ seconds. - Hit power sw a second time. - Waited 2 minutes. - Re installed jumper. - Installed battery. - Powered up, no help. I guess I'll try the whole procedure again. |
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Start by yanking non-essential stuff out of the loop. Any USB devices, Hard Drives, etc. Until you are at power supply, motherboard/processor, RAM, and video. See if you get a display then. Did you reseat the RAM? I down loaded the manual, it's pretty vague. I'll try the above procedure one more time. I've had the jumper off now for at least a half hour. If this doesn't work I'll have to see about turning the thing in for repair. I'm just not up to speed enough on PCs to do much more on my own without the possibility of screwing up things even worse than they already are. I really do appreciate all the help though. 
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It should only take a few seconds to clear the CMOS. I would double check to make sure any PCI cards/ram/CPU are seated properly. Also, make sure any power connectors to the motherboard are still seated tight and didn't get bumped or knocked loose. Also check to see if anything might be touching the MB and shorting it out.
When doing the CMOS reset, try leaving the battery in. I have had to do a resets on a number of MB's after flashing the BIOS and have always left it in. One important note, even when powered off there is still current going to the motherboard and most of it will still be 'active'. The only way to ensure that there is no power is to pull the plug (and even give it a chance to discharge). Besides the main power supply, be careful of any other add-in cards like modems; when they are connected to the phone line they are getting a fairly good supply of current (found that out the hard way; 42 volts will give you a pretty good zap to your hand if you brush it against a modem). I hate to ask the obvious; but did you hook it up the same way after opening it up and cleaning? If the motherboardd has onboard video + an addon video card you will have multiple VGA connectors and the one on the MB will be disabled (I have made that mistake at work with a PC that has that kind of config). |
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It should only take a few seconds to clear the CMOS. I would double check to make sure any PCI cards/ram/CPU are seated properly. Also, make sure any power connectors to the motherboard are still seated tight and didn't get bumped or knocked loose. Also check to see if anything might be touching the MB and shorting it out. When doing the CMOS reset, try leaving the battery in. I have had to do a resets on a number of MB's after flashing the BIOS and have always left it in. One important note, even when powered off there is still current going to the motherboard and most of it will still be 'active'. The only way to ensure that there is no power is to pull the plug (and even give it a chance to discharge). Besides the main power supply, be careful of any other add-in cards like modems; when they are connected to the phone line they are getting a fairly good supply of current (found that out the hard way; 42 volts will give you a pretty good zap to your hand if you brush it against a modem). I hate to ask the obvious; but did you hook it up the same way after opening it up and cleaning? If the motherboardd has onboard video + an addon video card you will have multiple VGA connectors and the one on the MB will be disabled (I have made that mistake at work with a PC that has that kind of config). That's for the help.
Yes, I also tried clearing the CMOS with the battery connected. With the battery in, I swapped the connector to pins two and three, waited 30-60 seconds, then swapped it back. No help. I also checked the security of everything I could get my hands on. I also ensured my monitor was properly connected. Other than the keyboard and monitor, nothing else is plugged in. The power cord was also unplugged from the back of the power supply during the pin swap. |
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Even without the CMOS battery in it should boot up and even the defaults probably would have still booted to your hard drive just fine.
Sounds like you fried your board to me when dusting. Sometimes people go overboard and all that air moving over the parts creates static electricity then it zaps something. Try the old battery or another one but usually when you power on a mboard and it just doesn't do anything at all other then power up it's a bad board. |
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Even without the CMOS battery in it should boot up and even the defaults probably would have still booted to your hard drive just fine. Sounds like you fried your board to me when dusting. Sometimes people go overboard and all that air moving over the parts creates static electricity then it zaps something. Try the old battery or another one but usually when you power on a mboard and it just doesn't do anything at all other then power up it's a bad board. You could be right. I kept the air pressure down at 15-20 psi, and never hit directly over the MB. I kept the nozzle a good 8-10 inches away from everything internally. I've cleaned out aircraft black boxes with PCB boards in the same manner and never had problems, so I figured my PC could be cleaned the same. ETA: I've had ESDS training too.
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Just to be sure on this, it was a CR2032 or CR2016, right? A Quarter sized 3V Lithium "Button" cell? If it looked the same, and you put in a 6V/12V "Cylindrical" cell from a remote starter, you could have fried the motherboard. If it is the same type (3V Lithium), there should be a jumper on the motherboard for "Clear CMOS", with the power off, remove the battery, and move the jumper across "Clear", then move the jumper back to "normal", insert battery, and boot. Sometimes when the NVRAM/BIOS gets corrupted, the computer won't do anything at all. That's what the little jumper is for. It completely erases all SRAM (CMOS/NVRAM/"BIOS") information, so that on the next boot, the default/failsafe copy is loaded from ROM. From there, you simply configure it again. Good thought. |
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Well this might not be a bad thing. Frau Quib gave me the go-ahead to buy a new PC. We've had this one for 4+ years now and both CD drives only open intermittently anyway.
My only concern is my 3 years of photos stored and other info on my HD. My son said to get a Hard Drive Enclosure for the old hard drive? I guess it's possible to install your old HD in this case, then hook it to a new PC like an external HD? Can anyone shed more light on this? |
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Well this might not be a bad thing. Frau Quib gave me the go-ahead to buy a new PC. We've had this one for 4+ years now and both CD drives only open intermittently anyway. My only concern is my 3 years of photos stored and other info on my HD. My son said to get a Hard Drive Enclosure for the old hard drive? I guess it's possible to install your old HD in this case, then hook it to a new PC like an external HD? Can anyone shed more light on this? Yes, you can buy a hard drive enclosure and install the old drive in to it. You can then plug it in via the USB and read the data from it. |
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Well this might not be a bad thing. Frau Quib gave me the go-ahead to buy a new PC. We've had this one for 4+ years now and both CD drives only open intermittently anyway. My only concern is my 3 years of photos stored and other info on my HD. My son said to get a Hard Drive Enclosure for the old hard drive? I guess it's possible to install your old HD in this case, then hook it to a new PC like an external HD? Can anyone shed more light on this? Take the old HDD out, and when you get your new computer connect it and suck it dry. It will either be a SATA (narrow cable) connection, or an IDE (wide ribbon). These are the most likely choices. For SATA: With new computer off, connect SATA cable to motherboard on the first available slot and connect the other end to the drive. Hook up power connector to the drive. Boot the computer and enter CMOS setup (usually F2, or delete, or something like that...) then make sure that SATA port is on and supporting SATA drives. Then boot to the OS and you should have your drive listed right there in My Computer. For IDE: With new computer off, find the IDE ribbon, (which often runs to the dvd drive) and connect the HDD to the middle connector. Attach the molex connector to power the drive. IF there is no IDE ribbon in your new system, then you will have to find the IDE ribbon slot on the motherboard and connect your old ribbon to that slot. It will be listed on your motherboard documentation, and be printed on the MB itself. Make sure the jumpers are set to "cable select". Boot to the CMOS setup and make sure the drive is visible to the system. Then boot to the OS and you'll see your drive in My Computer. Copy everything off your main drive. Unless you want to permanently mount the old drive in your case, then just connect the basic connections, copy the info, and disconnect it. There is no need to buy any external enclosure or to mount the old drive in the bay. |
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Make sure you try re-seating the motherboard and CPU connections from the power supply. Does the power supply spin up, or is it some other fan? I've checked all the connections. The CPU fan, pwr supply fan and the case fan are running. Did the system POST? Did it beep at you when it started? Are there any diagnostic lights on the motherboard that are trying to tell you what is wrong? |
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Well this might not be a bad thing. Frau Quib gave me the go-ahead to buy a new PC. We've had this one for 4+ years now and both CD drives only open intermittently anyway. My only concern is my 3 years of photos stored and other info on my HD. My son said to get a Hard Drive Enclosure for the old hard drive? I guess it's possible to install your old HD in this case, then hook it to a new PC like an external HD? Can anyone shed more light on this? Yes, you can buy a hard drive enclosure and install the old drive in to it. You can then plug it in via the USB and read the data from it. That's good to hear, thanks. I think I'll go that route. New PC and HD case.
I guess it pays off to have a teenage son taking IT classes. He come's in the room rattling off terminology that makes my head spin. Then nonchalantly suggests the HD case. Lil' smart ass. 
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Well this might not be a bad thing. Frau Quib gave me the go-ahead to buy a new PC. We've had this one for 4+ years now and both CD drives only open intermittently anyway. My only concern is my 3 years of photos stored and other info on my HD. My son said to get a Hard Drive Enclosure for the old hard drive? I guess it's possible to install your old HD in this case, then hook it to a new PC like an external HD? Can anyone shed more light on this? Yes, you can buy a hard drive enclosure and install the old drive in to it. You can then plug it in via the USB and read the data from it. That's good to hear, thanks. I think I'll go that route. New PC and HD case.
I guess it pays off to have a teenage son taking IT classes. He come's in the room rattling off terminology that makes my head spin. Then nonchalantly suggests the HD case. Lil' smart ass. IF the old hard drive is relatively small, forget buying an enclosure for it, unless you really want one. It is easy to connect it internally. You can put it in there permanently, or you can connect it just long enough to get the data you need copied. |
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good soak overnigth in degeasing solvent like gasoline or mineral spirits it should clean up fine. and you shold be able to boot right up.. this works great for disk drives too although micro-waving your hard drives i s faster. Maybe I can soak it in my Odorless Mineral Spirits/CLP bath just like a bolt carrier group. 
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Is the 'power' light on the front of the monitor green?? or is it orange??
...saw the above post about beeps... you can also get a less expensive adapter and hook the old HD up to any USB drive on your new computer and use it as a temporary external drive whilst you copy what you want. |
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IF the old hard drive is relatively small, forget buying an enclosure for it, unless you really want one. It is easy to connect it internally. You can put it in there permanently, or you can connect it just long enough to get the data you need copied. I'll consider that as well, thanks. 
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Did the system POST? Did it beep at you when it started? Are there any diagnostic lights on the motherboard that are trying to tell you what is wrong? No indications on the monitor. No lights that I could see. No beeps either. Well, that is a problem. IF you are already getting another machine, then just yank the hard drive out, and keep the cable connecting it to the MB. Some times you can salvage decent old stuff out of old machines, but usually it isn't worth it to keep anything but the hard drive. Exteptions: TV tuner cards, Sound cards from the last few years, firewire cards, Network interface cards, SCSI/RAID or other hard drive controller cards, USB2.0 cards. You might also want to look into stealing your Serial and Parallel port connections as well. |
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Is the 'power' light on the front of the monitor green?? or is it orange?? you can also get a less expensive adapter and hook the old HD up to any USB drive on your new computer and use it as a temporary external drive whilst you copy what you want. Power light was orange. So are these HD adapters something different than the cases I mentioned above? The cases looked pretty inexpensive. $30-$50. |
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The next item down in the manual is:
BIOS With Protect Jumper: JBIOS_WP1 (Optional) This jumper is used to lock or unlock the boot block area on BIOS. When unlocked, the BIOS boot block area can be updated. When locked, the BIOS boot block area cannot be updated. Unlocked (Enable BIOS Flash): (Pic w/ pins 1-2 shorted) Locked (Disable BIOS Flash): (Pic with pins 2-3 shorted) I'd guess what that means is there might be a jumper marked JBIOS_WP1 on the board, and you might need to make sure it's set with 1-2 shorted before the BIOS will flash. |