Posted: 1/8/2009 6:39:36 AM EDT
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I have a generator that is rated for 13.6 kVa at 400v, 10.880 W 3 / 5.500 w 1
I have 7000 watts worth of lighting that needs to run off this setup. Currently the gen is overheating and shutting off. I took the cover off of the circuit breaker panel and it looks as if the wiring feeding the service entrance is 14 or 12 gauge. Is this big enough wires? It's a 3 phase gen, btw. They have an auxilary water pump wired into the system, but it's not running when the lights are, but just for grins, it pulls 31 amps startup and 8 under load. Here are the specs: http://www.rosenbauer.com/index.php?USER=a5f9c859562f5752cb9599630af674ed&node_id=15818&SEST=Technische_Daten This is on a customers firetruck and I need to get this resolved soon. Thanks for reading! |
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Since you didn't say what voltage your lights are running at, I'm going to assume it is 400V. I'm also going to assume the load is spread across all 3 phases evenly.
Your load should be around 18 amps. So, either 12 or 14 ga. wire is fine. Edit because I can't read. |
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I'm also going to assume the load is spread across all 3 phases evenly. Thats the thing. I'm not sure it is evenly spread across all three phases. The gen has an indicator for L1 2 and 3. The L3 blinks that there is an under/over voltage problem. Are the loads spread in the breaker box? 
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Each Phase is "110VAC" Homes use two phases to get both 220 and 110, by tapping either between phases (220), or between each phase and ground. It depends on the generator to know if you are able to split out each phase to 110 an independent circuit or not. ETA: From the manual:
It looks like the three are already split out to seperate outlets, with a total single phase ability of 5.5kW - 110 * 16A = 1800 ish, * 3 phases = 5500-ish watts. |
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Each Phase is "110VAC" Homes use two phases to get both 220 and 110, by tapping either between phases (220), or between each phase and ground. It depends on the generator to know if you are able to split out each phase to 110 an independent circuit or not. ETA: From the manual:
It looks like the three are already split out to seperate outlets, with a total single phase ability of 5.5kW - 110 * 16A = 1800 ish, * 3 phases = 5500-ish watts. Yep. Are you trying to run 7000 watts of lighting off a single 110 phase? |
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I'm also going to assume the load is spread across all 3 phases evenly. Thats the thing. I'm not sure it is evenly spread across all three phases. The gen has an indicator for L1 2 and 3. The L3 blinks that there is an under/over voltage problem. Are the loads spread in the breaker box? you need to put an amprobe on this and read the actual amperage on each circuit. Flashing lights scare the hell out of me. |
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Thats the thing...I don't know how its wired inside the generator...it came from the factory this way. I just know it doesn't work. Good advice on the amprobe. So if this is all running off one leg (L3), that could cause the gen to overheat, right? It looks like each leg is only rated for 5,500 watts, so that might be your problem. |
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This is on a customers firetruck and I need to get this resolved soon.
No Fire vehicle runs a 3Ø system for lights. I've been a FF for 19 years and an electrician for 8. If this one does, it's an odd bird, and If so I appreciate the heads-up. We were considering a Rosenbauer ladder truck. We've run Honda gensets for years w/o a hitch, and we don't need some off brand we can't get serviced locally. You're looking to primarily power the quartz scene lights, right? Those typically tend to be 110v. The specs state: 5.500 W 1~ - there's your overload. They are starting the genny and then turning the lights on, right? As for the wire size? The leads to the lights themselves tend to be at least 12 AWG for each light. I'd think the leads to the panel would have to be bigger. I don;t have a Code book handy to quote chapter and verse (or appendix and table as it were). |
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This is on a customers firetruck and I need to get this resolved soon.
No Fire vehicle runs a 3Ø system for lights. I've been a FF for 19 years and an electrician for 8. If this one does, it's an odd bird, and If so I appreciate the heads-up. We were considering a Rosenbauer ladder truck. We've run Honda gensets for years w/o a hitch, and we don't need some off brand we can't get serviced locally. You're looking to primarily power the quartz scene lights, right? Those typically tend to be 110v. The specs state: 5.500 W 1~ - there's your overload. They are starting the genny and then turning the lights on, right? As for the wire size? The leads to the lights themselves tend to be at least 12 AWG for each light. I'd think the leads to the panel would have to be bigger. I don;t have a Code book handy to quote chapter and verse (or appendix and table as it were). You are correct. The three phase generator is needed to run an auxilary electric water pump for the pump and roll system. Thats why they went with the Rosenbauer generator. As a side note, you can spec any gen you want, as I'm sure you know. I like the Hondas, as well as the Harrision hydralic units. I think this is a good generator, once I get the loads balanced. I'm thinking that the right side of the box has too many breakers on that leg. Maybe switching a couple over to the left side would help. No one is going to be pump and rolling with the light tower deployed. |
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Have you checked the output with a meter? You have two voltages: 231 Single Phase, and 400V 3ø There isn't a 110/120VAC output from what the manual is saying. 400VAC @19.3A from a Wye Config Generator would give each leg 231V @ 19.3A or 4,4571 VA (W) per leg The three phase output is 13,371.4 VA / 13,125.8 Watts at 400V/19.3A In the photo, to the rear is the main cutoff switch. The top unit is 2 single pole 15A Breakers in one package. In the middle is a 3 phase breaker, where the third hot single leg is fed from (top 3 black wires are your individual legs) The bottom is a 3 phase breaker. The manual states there are 3 3 pole breakers, and 3 single pole breakers. Hopefully, you have the wrong manual? If this is the correct manual, it is a "European" genset, 50Hz, 230V is the "low Voltage", 400V is the 3 Phase (Compared to 230/110 in the US), also the manual uses the EU "comma for decimal". Check the output with a voltmeter to see if is has been modified to be a 230V 3ø, or is still a 400V 3ø Also, the manual states the output is DC, not AC. |
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The three phase generator is needed to run an auxilary electric water pump for the pump and roll system. Why not go with a flywheel PTO instead of the traditional Road/Pump setup? We used that setup years ago for P'N'R and it's worked fine. Sounds like someone sold the department a bill of goods. |
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The three phase generator is needed to run an auxilary electric water pump for the pump and roll system. Why not go with a flywheel PTO instead of the traditional Road/Pump setup? We used that setup years ago for P'N'R and it's worked fine. Sounds like someone sold the department a bill of goods. This was a TechDrive concept vehicle (tricked out demo). The department that bought it didn't really give a shit about the wizbang features, they liked it because a. it was the right size and layout for their need and b. they could have it within a week. They just want their generator to work. The water pump really isn't an issue, as it is never on when the lights are on. I think the generator is overheating, and everything electrical checked out this afternoon, so I'm back to square one. I'm thinking its an airflow issue. I'll let you know what I find out. Oh and Tango, I've got a 104' Rosenbaur platform in my shop. Would look good with your towns lettering in gold leaf! 
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