[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Right MOS (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/31/2008 11:47:47 PM EDT
| Alright, so I've been seriously considering enlisting into the Army. I'm really interested in working with firearms in my life, I love taking them apart and finding out how all the stuff inside works. I've been looking online for an MOS that would allow me to get some real experience with this, and I've come across 45B. Would this be what I'm looking for? |
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I should have been more clear, I'm interested in learning how to maintain and repair them on a more technical level than just knowing how to field strip an AR. I want to really know how it all works and how to fix stuff when it breaks. You will not get to work on firearms in the infantry. You want to be an armorer. Not sure if that's 45b in the Army, I think its' 2111 in the USMC. |
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IM Bohr Adam, as I believe he has insight on the 45B MOS.
If all Army units I've been in, the armorer is an additional duty. Grab a random joe that can keep track of paperwork and small parts, and send him to armorer school. Sign a piece of paper and he is the armorer. |
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so you want to be a gunsmith for the Army?
good luck with that, im sure they would rather have you working on Arty or scrubbing toilets than gunsmithing small arms. in my (navy, yes yea) experience small arms are maintained by local commands as collateral duties. But we had Gunners mates or Masters at Arms (lol)..which were supposed to be gunsmiths or weapon guys, but instead they employed them as security guards in far off shit holes. |
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IM Bohr Adam, as I believe he has insight on the 45B MOS. If all Army units I've been in, the armorer is an additional duty. Grab a random joe that can keep track of paperwork and small parts, and send him to armorer school. Sign a piece of paper and he is the armorer. The units I was in (FA) had 45B's as our Armorers. Most of their time was spent as a helper to the supply clerk. Meh...not glamorous at all, but wtf; not everybody gets to HALO out of the space shuttle with a knife in one hand and a hard dick in the other. It is still a valuable, and indeed a critical job. |
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so you want to be a gunsmith for the Army? good luck with that, im sure they would rather have you working on Arty or scrubbing toilets than gunsmithing small arms. in my (navy, yes yea) experience small arms are maintained by local commands as collateral duties. But we had Gunners mates or Masters at Arms (lol)..which were supposed to be gunsmiths or weapon guys, but instead they employed them as security guards in far off shit holes. Hey... I resemble that remark! 
But, yeah, as a GM (Or an MA in the weapons dep., you'll be an armorer.) Not that that helps with Army. /hijack. |
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45B aplenty with our BSB, they own the third shop to do maintenance on all small arms in the BDE but it is not glorious, rather monotonous, from what they say
Maybe you could get assigned to the Depots (Anniston, Red river, Picatinny, etc) and actually get some good experience. |
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Quoted: And now that image will reside in the back of my mind forever right next to my murdered neighbor...Quoted: IM Bohr Adam, as I believe he has insight on the 45B MOS. If all Army units I've been in, the armorer is an additional duty. Grab a random joe that can keep track of paperwork and small parts, and send him to armorer school. Sign a piece of paper and he is the armorer. The units I was in (FA) had 45B's as our Armorers. Most of their time was spent as a helper to the supply clerk. Meh...not glamorous at all, but wtf; not everybody gets to HALO out of the space shuttle with a knife in one hand and a hard dick in the other. It is still a valuable, and indeed a critical job. |
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IM Bohr Adam, as I believe he has insight on the 45B MOS. If all Army units I've been in, the armorer is an additional duty. Grab a random joe that can keep track of paperwork and small parts, and send him to armorer school. Sign a piece of paper and he is the armorer. Yep. Supply. 45B is awesome as it is direct support. But it isn't all fixing firearms. Hell, most 45Boos will be working in the motor pool helping the other Ord guys. They put all the 45s, 52s and 63s in the motor pool. Training for them is actual work instead of donning MILES and shooting blanks 
And if there are any 11s around, there is PLENTY of stuff to fix. 
IYAOYAS |
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45B aplenty with our BSB, they own the third shop to do maintenance on all small arms in the BDE but it is not glorious, rather monotonous, from what they say Maybe you could get assigned to the Depots (Anniston, Red river, Picatinny, etc) and actually get some good experience. Nope. Most there are DoL civy jobs. Hell, all the DS we had at some units was civies. Like barrel swaps. Bent A1 barrel and they chopped that sucker into 1" long segments. |
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IM Bohr Adam, as I believe he has insight on the 45B MOS. If all Army units I've been in, the armorer is an additional duty. Grab a random joe that can keep track of paperwork and small parts, and send him to armorer school. Sign a piece of paper and he is the armorer. Yep. Supply. 45B is awesome as it is direct support. But it isn't all fixing firearms. Hell, most 45Boos will be working in the motor pool helping the other Ord guys. They put all the 45s, 52s and 63s in the motor pool. Training for them is actual work instead of donning MILES and shooting blanks
And if there are any 11s around, there is PLENTY of stuff to fix.
IYAOYAS The Marine Corps will be happy to make you an armorer. You might wind up helping some dumbass change a tire on a five-ton, but that's after you do your own job. |
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Alright, so I've been seriously considering enlisting into the Army. I'm really interested in working with firearms in my life, I love taking them apart and finding out how all the stuff inside works. I've been looking online for an MOS that would allow me to get some real experience with this, and I've come across 45B. Would this be what I'm looking for? The great thing? Basic at Ft Jackson, AIT at APG. On your first pass, DO THE MUSEUM! It rocks! Inside and out. When I was there, we had BRAND NEW barracks. It was AWESOME. For Thanksgiving, we had AWESOME food...turkey and all that jazz but also BLUE CRAB, SHRIMP, OYSTERS...it ROCKED. Far better than any other post. Those barracks are probably long in the tooth now but compared to the MP barracks? Those sucked....I had a friend who was an MP there. Saved my butt once at the Tank. Anyhow, we went to high school together. Saw his truck and then told my friends about it....they said I was crazy. Then I saw his truck in the parking lot so I left him a message to come over to my room. He did so right after getting off work, in his MP uniform. Everyone SHIT A BRICK and thought I was being arrested So anyhow, my room mate had the hots for a Josephine and then he pointed her out ro me...again, ANOTHER HIGH SCHOOL MATE!!!! So that scene in Ronin? "We went to high school together". |
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IM Bohr Adam, as I believe he has insight on the 45B MOS. If all Army units I've been in, the armorer is an additional duty. Grab a random joe that can keep track of paperwork and small parts, and send him to armorer school. Sign a piece of paper and he is the armorer. Yep. Supply. 45B is awesome as it is direct support. But it isn't all fixing firearms. Hell, most 45Boos will be working in the motor pool helping the other Ord guys. They put all the 45s, 52s and 63s in the motor pool. Training for them is actual work instead of donning MILES and shooting blanks
And if there are any 11s around, there is PLENTY of stuff to fix.
IYAOYAS The Marine Corps will be happy to make you an armorer. You might wind up helping some dumbass change a tire on a five-ton, but that's after you do your own job. Uh, the Marine Corps uses the US Army Ordnance School at APG to train grunts. And on any given saturday night, Joes and Grunts are fighting at the Tank. While I was there, we had quite a few incidents, keeping Top a royal asshole. Not in my unit but another one...two Josephines decided to take on a train. Well, two NCOs were there for reclass TNG and decided they wanted in on the action. But the Josephines didn't want "them". So they made charges and CID went to work. Saw them miserable fucks on barracks arrest, only allowed to go to the mess hall. Yep, spent some time there. All good memories. Graduated top of my class...natch. |
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IM Bohr Adam, as I believe he has insight on the 45B MOS. If all Army units I've been in, the armorer is an additional duty. Grab a random joe that can keep track of paperwork and small parts, and send him to armorer school. Sign a piece of paper and he is the armorer. Yep. Supply. 45B is awesome as it is direct support. But it isn't all fixing firearms. Hell, most 45Boos will be working in the motor pool helping the other Ord guys. They put all the 45s, 52s and 63s in the motor pool. Training for them is actual work instead of donning MILES and shooting blanks
And if there are any 11s around, there is PLENTY of stuff to fix.
IYAOYAS The Marine Corps will be happy to make you an armorer. You might wind up helping some dumbass change a tire on a five-ton, but that's after you do your own job. Uh, the Marine Corps uses the US Army Ordnance School at APG to train grunts. Yeah, but at least they spend most of their time being armorers once they are out of school. |
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Alright, so I've been seriously considering enlisting into the Army. I'm really interested in working with firearms in my life, I love taking them apart and finding out how all the stuff inside works. I've been looking online for an MOS that would allow me to get some real experience with this, and I've come across 45B. Would this be what I'm looking for? You want to be a depot maintenance guy. Call whoever is doing rework these days, tell then you want to be a brown-bagger. The Army seems willing to train you you to do that, but only after 10 years of doing other shit from what I gather from the Army posters here. ETA: If all you want is an education on how guns work, skip the military. There might be a few duties you will be asked to do that have nothing to do with firearms. There are many better ways to get what you want. |
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IM Bohr Adam, as I believe he has insight on the 45B MOS. If all Army units I've been in, the armorer is an additional duty. Grab a random joe that can keep track of paperwork and small parts, and send him to armorer school. Sign a piece of paper and he is the armorer. Yep. Supply. 45B is awesome as it is direct support. But it isn't all fixing firearms. Hell, most 45Boos will be working in the motor pool helping the other Ord guys. They put all the 45s, 52s and 63s in the motor pool. Training for them is actual work instead of donning MILES and shooting blanks
And if there are any 11s around, there is PLENTY of stuff to fix.
IYAOYAS The Marine Corps will be happy to make you an armorer. You might wind up helping some dumbass change a tire on a five-ton, but that's after you do your own job. Uh, the Marine Corps uses the US Army Ordnance School at APG to train grunts. Yeah, but at least they spend most of their time being armorers once they are out of school. A 45B in a direct support role does a good deal of work in their field. They aren't on most combat/combat service/support unit TOEs at the company level. There MAY be one in BN level unless it is an armor/mechanized unit which have more crew-served platforms. But at company level? Used to be a 76Y20 with the special course filled the position of unit armorer. At most, headspace and time an M2/M60. But, having a mechanical apitutde, I was "asked" by our platoon leader to help out so I know how to take proper AOAP samples, seal them and send them off for analysis. A good indicator is how CLP is ordered. When it comes in 5 gallon cans, chances are good there will be a few 45Bs at company level. Then I got shit on and the sole 52D got chaptered out for psycho reasons. And guess who took his place? Yep, me. So now I had to learn generators but that was a snap, once you get an idea of power factor, phase balance and why grounding isn't just a good idea. Plus, I got to be warm in the winter. |
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Alright, so I've been seriously considering enlisting into the Army. I'm really interested in working with firearms in my life, I love taking them apart and finding out how all the stuff inside works. I've been looking online for an MOS that would allow me to get some real experience with this, and I've come across 45B. Would this be what I'm looking for? See my screen name. You want to get experience? Become a 13F, and get on a COLT team. 
-Ben |
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IM Bohr Adam, as I believe he has insight on the 45B MOS. If all Army units I've been in, the armorer is an additional duty. Grab a random joe that can keep track of paperwork and small parts, and send him to armorer school. Sign a piece of paper and he is the armorer. Yep. Supply. 45B is awesome as it is direct support. But it isn't all fixing firearms. Hell, most 45Boos will be working in the motor pool helping the other Ord guys. They put all the 45s, 52s and 63s in the motor pool. Training for them is actual work instead of donning MILES and shooting blanks
And if there are any 11s around, there is PLENTY of stuff to fix.
IYAOYAS The Marine Corps will be happy to make you an armorer. You might wind up helping some dumbass change a tire on a five-ton, but that's after you do your own job. Uh, the Marine Corps uses the US Army Ordnance School at APG to train grunts. Yeah, but at least they spend most of their time being armorers once they are out of school. A 45B in a direct support role does a good deal of work in their field. They aren't on most combat/combat service/support unit TOEs at the company level. There MAY be one in BN level unless it is an armor/mechanized unit which have more crew-served platforms. But at company level? Used to be a 76Y20 with the special course filled the position of unit armorer. At most, headspace and time an M2/M60. But, having a mechanical apitutde, I was "asked" by our platoon leader to help out so I know how to take proper AOAP samples, seal them and send them off for analysis. A good indicator is how CLP is ordered. When it comes in 5 gallon cans, chances are good there will be a few 45Bs at company level. For the OP, if wanting to learn how guns work is his goal, I would suggest there are a number of better ways to do it than the military. |
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Wow, lots of responses. You guys rock.
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Alright, so I've been seriously considering enlisting into the Army. I'm really interested in working with firearms in my life, I love taking them apart and finding out how all the stuff inside works. I've been looking online for an MOS that would allow me to get some real experience with this, and I've come across 45B. Would this be what I'm looking for? You want to be a depot maintenance guy. Call whoever is doing rework these days, tell then you want to be a brown-bagger. The Army seems willing to train you you to do that, but only after 10 years of doing other shit from what I gather from the Army posters here. ETA: If all you want is an education on how guns work, skip the military. There might be a few duties you will be asked to do that have nothing to do with firearms. There are many better ways to get what you want. I'm not quite familiar with your lingo. I assume rework is working on firearms, and does brown bagging mean when someone takes something apart and can't get it back together, so they bring it in to someone ask for help? I've looked into doing some work for a nearby gun shop. The owner didn't seem too keen on the idea, but I'm gonna go back and ask again once I get my AR built. I thought the Army would be a good place to learn, I really don't know where else I would be able to. I really want to get an idea of what I will be doing next year, I was thinking this, studying mechanical engineering, or just going 11B. |
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Wow, lots of responses. You guys rock. Quoted:
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Alright, so I've been seriously considering enlisting into the Army. I'm really interested in working with firearms in my life, I love taking them apart and finding out how all the stuff inside works. I've been looking online for an MOS that would allow me to get some real experience with this, and I've come across 45B. Would this be what I'm looking for? You want to be a depot maintenance guy. Call whoever is doing rework these days, tell then you want to be a brown-bagger. The Army seems willing to train you you to do that, but only after 10 years of doing other shit from what I gather from the Army posters here. ETA: If all you want is an education on how guns work, skip the military. There might be a few duties you will be asked to do that have nothing to do with firearms. There are many better ways to get what you want. I'm not quite familiar with your lingo. I assume rework is working on firearms, and does brown bagging mean when someone takes something apart and can't get it back together, so they bring it in to someone ask for help? I've looked into doing some work for a nearby gun shop. The owner didn't seem too keen on the idea, but I'm gonna go back and ask again once I get my AR built. I thought the Army would be a good place to learn, I really don't know where else I would be able to. I really want to get an idea of what I will be doing next year, I was thinking this, studying mechanical engineering, or just going 11B. Getting a brown bag job as a fresh recruit? Impossible. And you would never attempt work on any firearm that isn't in your level of repair skill so that means that Uncle Sugar will have all the Technical Manuals (TMs) for you to do your job. For example, the joe is allowed to do all things in the -10 manual but may not do anything higher, like a -20. For the M16, that would be the -23&P which covers unit maintainence (-20) and direct support (-30) plus the -23&P also has the Parts. Got it? There is more. Say you need a part. Well, if you are authorized to replace it and the part has enough of a historical demand, the unit will stock the part. This is in the unit PLL, perscribed load list. But if it is an odd part and you are authorized to replace it at your level, liks say a bolt, then you can order it. Now if you are a unit armorer and the M4 needs a barrel, you are not authorized to order it and you take the upper to direct support where they swap the barrel. It is much more involved that this as the paperwork will take more time than the actual work. Don't question it, there is a purpose. Just don't do anything the TM says you cannot do. You break it, you buy it. Like if you pull the FSB off a barrel...the barrel is a single part, yep, even though the FSB CAN be removed, don't do it in the Army. |
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Somebody called?
We get these threads a lot - but this time I will try a new metaphor. Imagine a maintenance shop is a hospital. Your maintenance officer is the administrator and your maintenance Chief (Chief Warrant Officer), is the head surgeon. 45Bs are pretty much the orderlies who clean the bed pans. The good ones may help with some basic surgeries, but they learn on the job. They barley learn to cut toenails in school, so they aren't much use to anyone else. Try to get into the toughest armament-related MOS you can which interests you. 45B is bottom-feeder MOS, where many of the dropouts from the longer and tougher schools end up. If you want Uncle Sam to pay for some training, get the most out of it. My usual recommendation to those who ask on this board: 45K. |
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I'm a 45B. I work in a service company in an air defense battalion. I sit in a shop all day along with the radio mechanics and PATRIOT mechanics and we listen to music. On occasion, I fix crew served weapons, since the unit armorer can fix most M16 and 249 problems. I do annual gauging as well. All in all, I like my job a lot but I never do it.
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45B is bottom-feeder MOS, where many of the dropouts from the longer and tougher schools end up. That's not entirely true. While I was in school, at least 75% of the 45Bs were National Guard. I never met one dropout from another MOS. However, I did meet some of the dumbest people that the Army ever accepted. In fact, both of the other 45Bs in my unit don't work with me. They were cross-trained in welding and such while I'm being crossed-trained in PATRIOT. |
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I'm a 45B. I work in a service company in an air defense battalion. I sit in a shop all day along with the radio mechanics and PATRIOT mechanics and we listen to music. On occasion, I fix crew served weapons, since the unit armorer can fix most M16 and 249 problems. I do annual gauging as well. All in all, I like my job a lot but I never do it. Quoted:
45B is bottom-feeder MOS, where many of the dropouts from the longer and tougher schools end up. That's not entirely true. While I was in school, at least 75% of the 45Bs were National Guard. I never met one dropout from another MOS. However, I did meet some of the dumbest people that the Army ever accepted. In fact, both of the other 45Bs in my unit don't work with me. They were cross-trained in welding and such while I'm being crossed-trained in PATRIOT. I did not say most of the MOS was dropouts - but it is where the dropouts end up. I believe it has the lowest entry standards of any MOS offered at APG - hence, the non-hacks will end up there. There are by no means the majority - or even significant. You also get - as you noted - some of the dumbest people possible - since many who barely pass the ASVAB end up in such MOSes. |
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IM Bohr Adam, as I believe he has insight on the 45B MOS. If all Army units I've been in, the armorer is an additional duty. Grab a random joe that can keep track of paperwork and small parts, and send him to armorer school. Sign a piece of paper and he is the armorer. True for Marines as well, HOWEVER, that's at the Bn level usually. At the regimental level are the actual no shit armorers who are MOS trained from the get go to be armorers, not like the "armorers" who babysit the weapons of the Bn/Company. |
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If all Army units I've been in, the armorer is an additional duty. Grab a random joe that can keep track of paperwork and small parts, and send him to armorer school. Sign a piece of paper and he is the armorer. I was a 19k and our company armorer was my roommate. He got the job after the previous one ETSed. They sent him to a couple week school and that was his training. He still had his regular job. Armorer was just an additional duty on top of his regular job. He did love being a cocksucker about finding carbon in your weapon and rejecting it as dirty. |
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True for Marines as well, HOWEVER, that's at the Bn level usually. At the regimental level are the actual no shit armorers who are MOS trained from the get go to be armorers, not like the "armorers" who babysit the weapons of the Bn/Company. It has been a while since I looked at the TO/E for rifle battalion but they should rate several 2111 armorers. I know even an arty battery rates 1 2111. |
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Somebody called? We get these threads a lot - but this time I will try a new metaphor. Imagine a maintenance shop is a hospital. Your maintenance officer is the administrator and your maintenance Chief (Chief Warrant Officer), is the head surgeon. 45Bs are pretty much the orderlies who clean the bed pans. The good ones may help with some basic surgeries, but they learn on the job. They barley learn to cut toenails in school, so they aren't much use to anyone else. Try to get into the toughest armament-related MOS you can which interests you. 45B is bottom-feeder MOS, where many of the dropouts from the longer and tougher schools end up. If you want Uncle Sam to pay for some training, get the most out of it. My usual recommendation to those who ask on this board: 45K. As the "head surgeon" as my colleague puts it, in my FSC (and also at this time the commander, but that is another story) I will second the 45K recommendation. You learn a whole lot more than the 45B’s do, get to work on larger stuff as well as the small arms, and the 45K’s I have worked with seemed to be head and shoulders above the 45B’s. Until a few months ago, my shop had 45K slots. Now I have lost all my 45 series slots and they are having to reclass- but I am retaining all my tools and supplies anyway and since they have the MOS, they will still do the work when needed. |
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Somebody called? We get these threads a lot - but this time I will try a new metaphor. Imagine a maintenance shop is a hospital. Your maintenance officer is the administrator and your maintenance Chief (Chief Warrant Officer), is the head surgeon. 45Bs are pretty much the orderlies who clean the bed pans. The good ones may help with some basic surgeries, but they learn on the job. They barley learn to cut toenails in school, so they aren't much use to anyone else. Try to get into the toughest armament-related MOS you can which interests you. 45B is bottom-feeder MOS, where many of the dropouts from the longer and tougher schools end up. If you want Uncle Sam to pay for some training, get the most out of it. My usual recommendation to those who ask on this board: 45K. Not really. There are some less than quality recruits placed as the GM is 90, same for 44B which is a general metal worker. The placement is usually higher up than the company level as even in a Cat 1 combat unit, the workload is slight. Most work they do is PMCS, making sure barrels are straight, can be zeroed and have annual headspace check. 45B is ok, but 44E would be superior for general gunsmithing. And it is much more marketable on the outside. Still, APG for TNG |
| Something to consider is promotional opportunities. I don't know how it works now, but in the early/mid 1990s it was a point system. The smaller the MOS, the higher the points required simply because there was less need for supervision in that MOS. RCP was a real consideration for some guys, like welders or whatever. Our unit armorer was just a broke-dick who had the keys to the armory. Pick something with more promotional opportunity or something that if you hated, got injured or whatever you could use if you got out. |
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Something to consider is promotional opportunities. I don't know how it works now, but in the early/mid 1990s it was a point system. The smaller the MOS, the higher the points required simply because there was less need for supervision in that MOS. RCP was a real consideration for some guys, like welders or whatever. Our unit armorer was just a broke-dick who had the keys to the armory. Pick something with more promotional opportunity or something that if you hated, got injured or whatever you could use if you got out. For the last time, unit armorers are not 45Bs. |
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I was Infantry. Our armourers consisted of "broke dicks" They would volunteer someone to work in the armory and put a couple of guys who are waiting for their med paperwork to clear in there too. Anything serious in nature was sent off.
Do yourself a favor and join the Air Force. |
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Somebody called? We get these threads a lot - but this time I will try a new metaphor. Imagine a maintenance shop is a hospital. Your maintenance officer is the administrator and your maintenance Chief (Chief Warrant Officer), is the head surgeon. 45Bs are pretty much the orderlies who clean the bed pans. The good ones may help with some basic surgeries, but they learn on the job. They barley learn to cut toenails in school, so they aren't much use to anyone else. Try to get into the toughest armament-related MOS you can which interests you. 45B is bottom-feeder MOS, where many of the dropouts from the longer and tougher schools end up. If you want Uncle Sam to pay for some training, get the most out of it. My usual recommendation to those who ask on this board: 45K. Not really. There are some less than quality recruits placed as the GM is 90, same for 44B which is a general metal worker. The placement is usually higher up than the company level as even in a Cat 1 combat unit, the workload is slight. Most work they do is PMCS, making sure barrels are straight, can be zeroed and have annual headspace check. 45B is ok, but 44E would be superior for general gunsmithing. And it is much more marketable on the outside. Still, APG for TNG I'm not sure what you are saying - has the 45K GM requirement dropped to 90, or are you disputing my "bottom feeder" comment for 45B? |
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Alright, seems like 45K would be a better choice than 45B.
tripledouble, I looked into it at usajobs.gov, that seems interesting, but the problem is I need training. I guess 21B is something worth looking into as well and as always, 11B is there. I've been reading around online, and I pretty much suck at AS. I know that they determine GM by adding GS+AS+MK+EI, but what is the maximum value that you can get in each subtest? EI was also pretty difficult for me. Am I screwed? |
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Alright, seems like 45K would be a better choice than 45B. tripledouble, I looked into it at usajobs.gov, that seems interesting, but the problem is I need training. I guess 21B is something worth looking into as well and as always, 11B is there. I've been reading around online, and I pretty much suck at AS. I know that they determine GM by adding GS+AS+MK+EI, but what is the maximum value that you can get in each subtest? EI was also pretty difficult for me. Am I screwed? If you have already taken the ASVAB, your recruiter should be able to break down the scores for you. Unless you want to go Combat Arms, try to get the job with the highest entry standards for which you qualify in the general area which interests you. |