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AR15.COM
12/3/2008 4:40:23 PM EDT
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28022823/
12/3/2008 4:42:34 PM EDT
[#1]
Chief Dan Isom told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch he understands Troupe's frustration but doesn't support citizens arming themselves. Fuck Dan Isom
12/3/2008 4:43:10 PM EDT
[#2]
At least somebody gets it.
12/3/2008 4:44:27 PM EDT
[#3]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=796318
12/3/2008 4:45:46 PM EDT
[#4]
oops...
12/3/2008 4:45:51 PM EDT
[#5]
ST. LOUIS - A city alderman frustrated with the police response to rising crime called Tuesday on residents to arm themselves to protect their lives and property.

Alderman Charles Quincy Troupe said police are ineffective, outnumbered or don't care about the increase in crime in his north St. Louis ward. St. Louis has had 157 homicides in 2008, 33 more than last year at this time.

"The community has to be ready to defend itself, because it's clear the economy is going to get worse, and criminals are getting more bold," Troupe, 72, said Tuesday.

Troupe said that when he and residents approached a district police commander last year, they were told "there was nothing he could do to protect us and the community ... that he didn't have the manpower."

Police chief doesn't support

Police did not immediately return requests for comment. Chief Dan Isom told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch he understands Troupe's frustration but doesn't support citizens arming themselves.

Carrying guns, he said, is not a "recipe for a less violent community."

Mayor Francis Slay wrote in his blog Tuesday that some of the most violent crimes in Troupe's ward are committed with guns stolen from law-abiding citizens.

He said Troupe could do more good urging residents to cooperate with investigating police officers, lending support for activities for children, and lobbying legislators to increase funding for jobs training and economic development.

Troupe's reaction to the spike in homicides is understandable, but his idea is not likely to be effective, said University of Missouri-St. Louis criminologist Richard Rosenfeld.

"Much of the problem is free and easy access to guns," Rosenfeld said. "This hope that by putting guns in the right hands will have an influence on criminals is a false hope. There's no evidence for that."


Sometimes violence is a good thing.  For instance, robbery victim shoots the criminal.  That's a score one for the good guys.  Would-be-rape victim shoots her aspiring rapist.  That's another score one for the good guys.  Burglar shot while climbing through a window.  That's yet another score one for the good guys.  Not all killings are inherent evil and sometimes violence can yield more productive results than a station-house full of cops, the might of the district attorney, the weight of the court and a lenghty stay in the correction system.
12/3/2008 4:50:28 PM EDT
[#6]
CNT staffing irks city
Lesley Conn | Wednesday, December 3, 2008 at 12:30 am

Savannah City Council members have questions about police hiring and the city's obligation to fully staff a countywide narcotics unit.

And several said they will consider a vote Thursday to require Savannah-Chatham Police Chief Michael Berkow to provide an additional seven police officers to the Chatham-Savannah Counter Narcotics Unit.

Talk of the move came while council members discussed the city's public safety budget during a Tuesday workshop.

Under a five-year-old agreement with Chatham County, metro police are expected to provide 30 officers to the drug unit. In return, the county pays their salaries.

Read the original city of Savannah/Chatham County police merger agreement.

But metro police currently owe the narcotics unit seven officers and one administrative position, CNT Commander Roy Harris said Tuesday.

Berkow, who was not at Tuesday's city budget workshop, has said his priority is to push as many officers as possible into patrol positions.

But at an October city council retreat, he cited another reason.

"I'm not under a great incentive to provide bodies I don't control," he said.

Merger agreement at issue

That sentiment is part of a long-running dispute between the city and the county over its police merger. Under the agreement, the Counter Narcotics Unit, which is under the supervision of County Manager Russ Abolt, was to move into the metro police department and be under the control of the police chief.

The county has refused to honor that aspect of the agreement.

On Tuesday, facing questions from council members about CNT staffing, City Manager Michael Brown cited the failed agreement as the reason the city has not fully staffed the drug unit.

Aldermen Tony Thomas, Mary Osborne, Edna Jackson, Mary Ellen Sprague and Jeff Felser didn't support the reasoning.

"The two have nothing to do with each other," Osborne said.

They reminded Brown that Berkow has stressed the need for more drug investigations, especially as he has pointed to rising drug prices as the fuel behind rising auto and home burglaries.

"It's politics, and it's affecting policing in this community," Thomas said.

County Commission Chairman Pete Liakakis on Tuesday called the staffing discussion "very good" and added "we appreciate that."

Within the next two weeks, he said, he expects the city and county to conclude negotiations on who will control the narcotics unit.

Support for Berkow

During Tuesday's discussion, council members were largely supportive of Berkow, praised his efforts to get more officers on the street and questioned Brown about why the 2009 proposed budget does not include money to hire more officers.

Brown reminded council members of the tough financial year ahead, a point several council members also are worried about. The 2009 budget is being balanced by drawing about $1 million from reserve funds, and for 2010, the city could be looking at a gap of up to $18 million between revenues and expenditures in the general fund.

Brown believes the police department is close to its full staffing and wants to explore making sure the officers on staff are being deployed as efficiently as possible.

Alderman Van Johnson supported Brown.

"If we can't maintain our authorized strength, then we're not there," he said of hiring more officers. "It's not a matter of the number of officers, it's also about how effectively they are being used."

Sprague and Thomas echoed concerns of other council members, who said they are hearing from constituents worried about crime.

Thomas, whose southside district is getting hammered by burglaries, armed robberies and increased juvenile crime, says he's hearing from constituents who are arming themselves.

He said he no longer feels comfortable telling them they shouldn't have a weapon but said he fears bloodshed is likely as people try to protect their homes and property.

"All of these crimes are creating a snowball effect of people talking about how bad crime is in Savannah," he said.


"At some point, we're going to have to step up to the plate and pay for more officers. Public safety is the top priority of government, and right now, there's a perception that people aren't being protected in Savannah."

Source
12/3/2008 4:50:37 PM EDT
[#7]
guns=yummy
12/3/2008 4:52:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Good on Troupe, and fuck the police chief.
12/3/2008 4:57:49 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
CNT staffing irks city
Lesley Conn | Wednesday, December 3, 2008 at 12:30 am

Savannah City Council members have questions about police hiring and the city's obligation to fully staff a countywide narcotics unit.

<snip>

He said he no longer feels comfortable telling them they shouldn't have a weapon but said he fears bloodshed is likely as people try to protect their homes and property.  

<snip>

Source


As long as it's the right blood gettin' shed, I have zero problems with that.


12/3/2008 4:58:28 PM EDT
[#10]
"Much of the problem is free and easy access to guns," Rosenfeld said.



Am I missing a Saturday Night Walmart special giveaway or something?

How easy do I get a free gun?

*Edit*

Ahnh, I forgot SWAT leaves them on lawns.