[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Someone explain unions please. (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 12/1/2008 1:57:09 AM EDT
| Wondering if anyone can explain to me what a union (such as the one in the automoble industry) is and how it works. With the automoble bailout running strong in the media, I hear from some that the unions are a factor in the current automoble industry financial crisis. They talk about unions in a negative way. Any info? |
| It's communism-lite. A group of workers whose contractual protections guarantee them a wage better than they could individually negotiate, and who prevent the business leadership from making necessary decisions to stay competitive. The "big three" are dying because they are being bled to death by greedy unions. |
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Legal organized crime organization that survives on its legacy/legend/myth of single-handedly building this country and being solely responsible for making the American workplace a safe and profitable environment for the working man.
Now an embarasing ,pork-lined and corruption-ridden cist on America's industrial ass. Basic communism at it's ugliest. Your opinion may vary 
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The basic idea is collective bargaining. Employees working in mines, factories and other types of companies noticed that they could get better contracts if they all joined ranks and argued their case with their employer together. If a single employee goes to the boss and asks for more money, it is easy to either to say no and tell him to get back to work - or to just fire him. If they all show up at your door, you can't well fire 'em all, can you?
And thus - unionisation. |
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A union is an organization of workers that allows them to bargain and force their will from a position of strength that is more than any individual worker could ever dream of.
In the old days, unions fought for and won better conditions, better pay, and better benefits for the workers they represented. They are still able to do this today, if used properly. However, some of the larger unions like the United Auto Workers have grown so large and so powerful that they are able to force companies to take actions that excessively favor workers while potentially damaging the companies. Many unions are also quite corrupt, with some having been little more than fronts for organized crime in the past few decades. I tend to believe that organized labor has mostly outlived its usefullness in its present state. |
| Bad mouth them all you want, but alot of non-union workers make what is called "union scale." IMHO they are the reason alot of workers are paid a decent wage instead of getting shafted on pay and benefits, or getting fucked over by an employer with no recourse. In my area everyone wants to be paid union scale. |
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Quoted: Yes, Getting paid 30 - 40 dollars an hour for pushing a broom is a good wage.Bad mouth them all you want, but alot of non-union workers make what is called "union scale." IMHO they are the reason alot of workers are paid a decent wage instead of getting shafted on pay and benefits, or getting fucked over by an employer with no recourse. In my area everyone wants to be paid union scale. They are killing themselves. Unions are the perfect example of giving someone enough rope and they will hang themselves. |
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A union is an organization of workers that allows them to bargain and force their will from a position of strength that is more than any individual worker could ever dream of. In the old days, unions fought for and won better conditions, better pay, and better benefits for the workers they represented. They are still able to do this today, if used properly. However, some of the larger unions like the United Auto Workers have grown so large and so powerful that they are able to force companies to take actions that excessively favor workers while potentially damaging the companies. Many unions are also quite corrupt, with some having been little more than fronts for organized crime in the past few decades. I tend to believe that organized labor has mostly outlived its usefullness in its present state. You make no mention that the reason unions have any leverage is due to labor laws, and having the federal government on their side. |
| Greedy corrupt uncareing industy used to pay the workers crap, have unsafe conditions, use child labor, etc. Check out the history of mining, textiles, rail roads, etc. Workers organized for better pay, safety, benefits and the like. Real battles were fought in the past and there was at least one instance of workers being straffed from the air. Some unions became very powerful and then corrupt, remember Jimmy Hofa? They were a hot bed of socialist activity too. As with many things American, there's no middle ground and no one looks at the big picture. Industry is most interested in profits and rarely have any concern for the work force. Unions are interested mostly in workers benefits and their own power and have on occasion caused some industries to become nonprofitable due to high labor costs, etc. When industry understands the work force is one of it's most valuable reasources and treats workers well you don't see much union activity because it's not needed. When an industry is making billions in profit and the work force is poorly paid and poorly treat, well... you get the idea. Some industries, past and present, treat there workers like indentured servants. Some unions conduct themselves like little socialist goverments. Damn, why can't we learn how to make a profit and let the working man make a decent living all at the same time. The answer - greed. |
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A union is an organization of workers that allows them to bargain and force their will from a position of strength that is more than any individual worker could ever dream of. In the old days, unions fought for and won better conditions, better pay, and better benefits for the workers they represented. They are still able to do this today, if used properly. However, some of the larger unions like the United Auto Workers have grown so large and so powerful that they are able to force companies to take actions that excessively favor workers while potentially damaging the companies. Many unions are also quite corrupt, with some having been little more than fronts for organized crime in the past few decades. I tend to believe that organized labor has mostly outlived its usefullness in its present state. You make no mention that the reason unions have any leverage is due to labor laws, and having the federal government on their side. Just another .gov backed cartel that would not be able to exist in it's present state in a FREE MARKET. |
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Pay a person $40 an hour to bolt a seat into a car on an assembly line = Union
Pay that same person $15 an hour to bolt that same seat into the car = Non-Union Guess what, the seat is still bolted into the car and done for $25 less an hour. With that new cars these days would cost $10-15,000 not $35-40,000 I say F*ck the unions. |
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A union's entire base of power is force or threat of force.
Absent the law recognizing and enforcing contracts made in the face of this threat of force, unions would have no power. "Hire our workers or we'll threaten your capital investment and intimidate anyone else you attempt to hire." is not the basis for a moral organization. Attempting to justify the means by citing some subjective good is the same argument that Marxists use. The only way a union can exist is if protection of private property is withheld by law. The way to obtain "fair" wages and a safer workplace is to vote with your feet. Stamping them and insisting that an employer alter their business to suit your whims is childish. (Even more evil is when this insistence is implemented as a matter of law. See minimum wage and OSHA.) Laws recognizing unions mean that everyone's freedom is limited. |
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Greedy corrupt uncareing industy used to pay the workers crap, have unsafe conditions, use child labor, etc. Check out the history of mining, textiles, rail roads, etc. Workers organized for better pay, safety, benefits and the like. Real battles were fought in the past and there was at least one instance of workers being straffed from the air. Some unions became very powerful and then corrupt, remember Jimmy Hofa? They were a hot bed of socialist activity too. As with many things American, there's no middle ground and no one looks at the big picture. Industry is most interested in profits and rarely have any concern for the work force. Unions are interested mostly in workers benefits and their own power and have on occasion caused some industries to become nonprofitable due to high labor costs, etc. When industry understands the work force is one of it's most valuable reasources and treats workers well you don't see much union activity because it's not needed. When an industry is making billions in profit and the work force is poorly paid and poorly treat, well... you get the idea. Some industries, past and present, treat there workers like indentured servants. Some unions conduct themselves like little socialist goverments. Damn, why can't we learn how to make a profit and let the working man make a decent living all at the same time. The answer - greed. You've been indoctrinated well, young Karl. |
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A union is an organization of workers that allows them to bargain and force their will from a position of strength that is more than any individual worker could ever dream of. In the old days, unions fought for and won better conditions, better pay, and better benefits for the workers they represented. They are still able to do this today, if used properly. However, some of the larger unions like the United Auto Workers have grown so large and so powerful that they are able to force companies to take actions that excessively favor workers while potentially damaging the companies. Many unions are also quite corrupt, with some having been little more than fronts for organized crime in the past few decades. I tend to believe that organized labor has mostly outlived its usefullness in its present state. You make no mention that the reason unions have any leverage is due to labor laws, and having the federal government on their side. I'm no expert in unions and I don't know how they are effected by labor laws and federal backing. The original idea behind unions is to control the labor force, thereby controlling the actions of the employer. If, for instance, you own a textile mill and I run the textile workers' union, I can demand higher pay, which you will deliver or, at least, negotiate if you want your employees to show up for work tommorow. Unions in their ideal form assist workers in achieving goals that couldn't be achieved otherwise. In practice, labor laws have mostly eliminated the need for the unions to protect workers from really unfair treatment, which has led the unions to do what they are doing now in order to survive. The union is, after all, a business of its own. |
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Wondering if anyone can explain to me what a union (such as the one in the automoble industry) is and how it works. With the automoble bailout running strong in the media, I hear from some that the unions are a factor in the current automoble industry financial crisis. They talk about unions in a negative way. Any info? Unions, simple terms (CURRENT US LEGAL ENVIRONMENT) Union organizers come to a company, and talk to the workers.... Workers decide they want a union... There is a government-supervised secret-ballot election, and if the majority of votes say 'Yes, we want a union' then the workers become unionized. The Employer may run a campaign against the union prior to the vote, but if the union wins the vote, the employer MUST accept and deal with the union. Once the union wins (is certified) the employer MUST negotiate in 'good faith' with the union. If they fail to do this, they are fined and the government will 'impose' a contract on the employer through 'mediation'. The employer cannot fire employees for union activities - to include going on strike. Nor can they refuse to hire employees for the same. If the union and the employer cannot reach a contract, the NLRB (fedgov) will step in and mediate a contract - which is generally pro-unioin as most NLRB 'mediators' have ties to the unions from past work.... If the employees are dissatisfied with the union, they can vote it out (Decertify it).... However, the only way the employer can (practically) get rid of a union legally is to outsource production and shut down the union facilities... [b]How a union interacts with employees varies from state to state. In so-called 'Right to Work' states, you cannot be refused employment for refusing to be union. In 'Open Shop' states, you can refuse to join the union but you will still pay the dues. In 'Closed Shop' or 'Union Shop' states, you can be required to join the union as a condition of employment. Predictably, MI and most of the midwest states are 'Closed/Union Shop'.... And most of the South is 'Right to Work'. |
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There are a lot of things that can be said about unions, both good and bad. The one thing that union haters, and proponents always seem to miss.
It is almost unheard of for a union to hire an illegal immigrant. Unions are not a necessity by any means, but an unregulated free market is not the solution either. |
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There are a lot of things that can be said about unions, both good and bad. The one thing that union haters, and proponents always seem to miss. It is almost unheard of for a union to hire an illegal immigrant. And you'll probably not find an illegal alien in the b a t f e or the FBI, or the KKK either. Unions are not a necessity by any means, but an unregulated free market is not the solution either.
That's a veiled statement that doesn't really say anything but "government should regulate business." |
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There are a lot of things that can be said about unions, both good and bad. The one thing that union haters, and proponents always seem to miss. It is almost unheard of for a union to hire an illegal immigrant. And you'll probably not find an illegal alien in the b a t f e or the FBI, or the KKK either. Unions are not a necessity by any means, but an unregulated free market is not the solution either.
That's a veiled statement that doesn't really say anything but "government should regulate business." Business should be regulated no? Unregulated business gave rise to unions in the first place. Comparing unions to the KKK is a little extreme. If i had to make a choice between supporting a union, or supporting a foreign country you can bet the union will get my money. Thats not to say i would ever blindly support unions. In instances like the UAW, they do much more damage than the good they ever were intended to do. I believe that the power of the union should be regulated every bit as much as the "free market". But to suggest that unions have no purpose at all and should be eliminated completely is as much a fallacy as saying that the second amendment is no longer needed and should be erased from the constitution. If all unions were all as bad as the UAW, they would have all bled themselves to death a long time ago. |
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Wondering if anyone can explain to me what a union (such as the one in the automoble industry) is and how it works... A union is the voluntary expression of a person's first amendment rights. Often times the union collects dues (membership fees) from your paycheck. It uses this money to further help protect the worker and reach goals that the union sees as benifical to the members of the union. Often times these goals are voted on by the members of the union. The trouble with unions is that our Gov't has given them too much power in relation to that of the business owner. Unions are often-times allowed to strong-arm business owners into caving to the will of the union. This causes problems, like with the auto unions very good health care and retirement packages. The business might know that it can't maintain a profit with such a package, but is coerced into providing it, lest the workers strike. |
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There are a lot of things that can be said about unions, both good and bad. The one thing that union haters, and proponents always seem to miss. It is almost unheard of for a union to hire an illegal immigrant. Unions are not a necessity by any means, but an unregulated free market is not the solution either. No, but they ARE pushing hard to get illegals "amnestied" so they can join the unions then! |
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Good companies have found that if they are willing to provide a good benefit package, fair wages and a decent working enviornment, their employees will be happy, produce quality work and not want a union. Companies who have few or no benefits and poor wages, well, they get what they pay for, high turnover and poor quality workmanship.
What angers me about unions is that some folks think that standing around with their thumbs in their asses justifies an above average wage. They will not "multi-task" and are not very versatile. Years of this attitude have driven business away. |
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There are a lot of things that can be said about unions, both good and bad. The one thing that union haters, and proponents always seem to miss. It is almost unheard of for a union to hire an illegal immigrant. Unions are not a necessity by any means, but an unregulated free market is not the solution either. the free market is regulated. Monopolies are regulated. closed shop unions are a monopoly on the Labor Capital. Which should be illegal. |
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well my grandpa worked in the sheet metal trade, and some of his story's, are great examples. Guys showing up drunk to work, and guys just not good workers, but because of Union it was more trouble to fire them than just let them be. My Great Uncle work for Ford in the 90's he made almost $30 an hr. to drive a forklift and move stuff outside the yellow walk lines at the plant, most of the day was just setting and waiting for something to do, not worth $30/hr, but because of Union they had to pay him that.
When you buy a Ford you pay more for the Health benefits for workers than you do for the steel, maybe why you get more for your money at Honda, your really paying for what the car is worth. My buddy at IU told me about this GM plant where 1,600 people show up and play cards all day long , because the union will not let them close the plant, but if they make cars there, they will lose more money that just paying the Union required people to be there. |
| Wow! So most of you seem to hate unions huh? I worked for 5 years in a non union warehouse making $7 an hour. The condidtions were unsafe/horrible but I needed money to pay the bills and jobs were hard to come by. One day a group of guys I worked with called OSHA about our warehouse. OSHA came out, no problems solved, three workers fired for calling OSHA (but fired for other reasons). Now I work in a UAW factory (and no we dont make $40 an hour/ try $25 an hour with new hires making lower tier wages at $14 an hour) and I have to say the UAW has safety standards non-union companys dont have. And I would love to see some of you who hate us try to lift a SuperDuty truck seat for 10/12 hours a day. Most people who complain of our wages are only envious. We hired over 200 people 10 years ago to fill 75 job openings. After two months there were 148 people who quit out of this group because they could not handle this kind of work. Try standing in your work area over 1 hour before someone relieves you to go to the shitter. The biggest reason the Big 3 are hurting right now is the pensions from retirees. The Jap companys dont have this problem, one reason being they terminate so many temporary employees each year. When I was offerd a job at this UAW factory 10 years ago, I ran as fast as I could to get there (just as any of you would of done back then) and make good money. BTW the money the Big 3 seeks is not a "bailout" but a low interest loan to be PAID BACK. So when you buy a vehicle its your money, you decide what country you want to support. |
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Wow! So most of you seem to hate unions huh? I worked for 5 years in a non union warehouse making $7 an hour. The condidtions were unsafe/horrible but I needed money to pay the bills and jobs were hard to come by. One day a group of guys I worked with called OSHA about our warehouse. OSHA came out, no problems solved, three workers fired for calling OSHA (but fired for other reasons). Now I work in a UAW factory (and no we dont make $40 an hour/ try $25 an hour with new hires making lower tier wages at $14 an hour) and I have to say the UAW has safety standards non-union companys dont have. And I would love to see some of you who hate us try to lift a SuperDuty truck seat for 10/12 hours a day. Most people who complain of our wages are only envious. We hired over 200 people 10 years ago to fill 75 job openings. After two months there were 148 people who quit out of this group because they could not handle this kind of work. Try standing in your work area over 1 hour before someone relieves you to go to the shitter. The biggest reason the Big 3 are hurting right now is the pensions from retirees. The Jap companys dont have this problem, one reason being they terminate so many temporary employees each year. When I was offerd a job at this UAW factory 10 years ago, I ran as fast as I could to get there (just as any of you would of done back then) and make good money. BTW the money the Big 3 seeks is not a "bailout" but a low interest loan to be PAID BACK. So when you buy a vehicle its your money, you decide what country you want to support. So its tough for you guys to find qualified workers then? Does the Union have Want Ads out for a long time to get the people they need? Or are they filled immediately with people, and many others are trying to use their connections to people they know in the union to desperately try and get into it? |
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Basically, a union is run by thugs, known as union organizers, kind of like "community organizers", except they organize a business's workers. They institute a protection racket where the employer does not have his business destroyed provided he pays through the nose for employee salaries. This is more commonly known as extortion to most people.
Then the union organizers take a cut of every employee's salary, whether union or not, which is called "union dues". It is all about keeping that money flowing into the pockets of the thugs, I mean, union organizers. |
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Here's my take:
At one point in US history, workers were slaves. Pay was low, work conditions were horrible,etc. Look up "Sweat Shops" on the web. After a bit of time, workers realized that they were getting screwed and joined together to demand better wages and working conditions..hence the term "Union". Basically, a worker's union hires leaders to speak and negotiate pay, work conditions and all other aspects with a employer. By using the leverage of strikes-which can disrupt business and cost the employer big money-they come to the table with a bit of power. When the Unions first appeared, this needed to happen. You can thank them for all the protections we get now as workers-they got the ball rolling. At this point in our history, in many(but not all-some professions still need unions) professions/work enviorments, Unions are nothing but parasites that protect overpaid, unskilled workers and keep the union leaders getting their big paychecks. One of the biggest examples is the United Auto Workers(aka the UAW). If you figure in benefits and other things, many workers make $70+/hr for screwing in bolts-unskilled work that can be done by your average person. Japanese auto makers pay less than half of that per hour for their workers and make a good product. The UAW's demands are dated and unrealistic, which will lead to their demise. (BTW-The big 3's problems are not just the UAW's fault. Add in piss poor management that is more interested in getting big paychecks than running a profitable company and not having the products people want also contribute BIG time.) Other examples of unions gone bad-Teacher's unions and unions in the food service industry(I have seen how unions work in professional kitchens-they protect lazy fucks who can't cook shit) At some point, unions might be needed again, so we can't count them out entirely. Plus, we should give them some respect due to the impact they had on the American worker. Make no mistake however, many are in need of dying and going away untill they truly are needed again. |
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A union is an organization of workers that allows them to bargain and force their will from a position of strength that is more than any individual worker could ever dream of. In the old days, unions fought for and won better conditions, better pay, and better benefits for the workers they represented. They are still able to do this today, if used properly. However, some of the larger unions like the United Auto Workers have grown so large and so powerful that they are able to force companies to take actions that excessively favor workers while potentially damaging the companies. Many unions are also quite corrupt, with some having been little more than fronts for organized crime in the past few decades. I tend to believe that organized labor has mostly outlived its usefullness in its present state.[/div] Agree with above |
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yep Toyota's are made in Georgetown Ky 
20% of over all profit for foreign made cars(made in the US ) stay here. 80% or more of the profits go back to Toe-Jo in Japan. The same is true for a US car maker in Mexico. At least more profit comes back here. Wonder why we are in a recession, I see so many Jap cars now. |
| The issue of wages pales in comparison ti the issues of performance and protectionism. Those areas are where the true costs of doing business with unions is felt. When companies are forced to retain less productive workers and are hamstrung in terms of setting productivity standards, we all pay! These are the major factors resulting in reduced production and quality and increased cost to the consumer. |
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Generally speaking, Unions are legions of brain dead, Democrat voting Zombies who can't do math.
They don't realize the more they are paid the more things are gonna cost. Every one I know in a union except my brother in law, thinks: Democrats: Good for the working man Republicans : Bad, just plain bad. |
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yep Toyota's are made in Georgetown Ky
20% of over all profit for foreign made cars(made in the US ) stay here. 80% or more of the profits go back to Toe-Jo in Japan. The same is true for a US car maker in Mexico. At least more profit comes back here. Wonder why we are in a recession, I see so many Jap cars now. Again, is it tough for your union to find workers, or are the offices filled up with "qualified" people as soon as word goes out that they are hiring? Just curious... FWIW you would have to go very high on the pay scale to get me to work on one of those assembly lines, but there are plenty of folks that will do it, from what I have seen anyway... |
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Greedy corrupt uncareing industy used to pay the workers crap, have unsafe conditions, use child labor, etc. Check out the history of mining, textiles, rail roads, etc. Workers organized for better pay, safety, benefits and the like. Real battles were fought in the past and there was at least one instance of workers being straffed from the air. Some unions became very powerful and then corrupt, remember Jimmy Hofa? They were a hot bed of socialist activity too. As with many things American, there's no middle ground and no one looks at the big picture. Industry is most interested in profits and rarely have any concern for the work force. Unions are interested mostly in workers benefits and their own power and have on occasion caused some industries to become nonprofitable due to high labor costs, etc. When industry understands the work force is one of it's most valuable reasources and treats workers well you don't see much union activity because it's not needed. When an industry is making billions in profit and the work force is poorly paid and poorly treat, well... you get the idea. Some industries, past and present, treat there workers like indentured servants. Some unions conduct themselves like little socialist goverments. Damn, why can't we learn how to make a profit and let the working man make a decent living all at the same time. The answer - greed. GREAT EXAMPLE!!! 
I SUGGEST READING A BOOK CALLED "WELL MADE IN AMERICA" its about the harley davidson turn around. |
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a whole bunch of people got together and realized that if they all refused to work at once, the company would have to treat them better.
then governments in various places got in on the act and passed laws saying that people had to join unions, and such, and that people can't be fired simply because they are in a union. So then the union leaders, realizing that it can shaft both the worker and the employer, makes the employer raise wages for people doing minimum wage work and then charge an arm and a leg for the mandatory union dues. simply More money for less work. like socialism, it is a good theory, but in the real world it sucks. Now, if unions were optional, then things would be more balanced between workers and employers. Quoted:
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Greedy corrupt uncareing industy used to pay the workers crap, have unsafe conditions, use child labor, etc. Check out the history of mining, textiles, rail roads, etc. Workers organized for better pay, safety, benefits and the like. Real battles were fought in the past and there was at least one instance of workers being straffed from the air. Some unions became very powerful and then corrupt, remember Jimmy Hofa? They were a hot bed of socialist activity too. As with many things American, there's no middle ground and no one looks at the big picture. Industry is most interested in profits and rarely have any concern for the work force. Unions are interested mostly in workers benefits and their own power and have on occasion caused some industries to become nonprofitable due to high labor costs, etc. When industry understands the work force is one of it's most valuable reasources and treats workers well you don't see much union activity because it's not needed. When an industry is making billions in profit and the work force is poorly paid and poorly treat, well... you get the idea. Some industries, past and present, treat there workers like indentured servants. Some unions conduct themselves like little socialist goverments. Damn, why can't we learn how to make a profit and let the working man make a decent living all at the same time. The answer - greed. GREAT EXAMPLE!!!
I SUGGEST READING A BOOK CALLED "WELL MADE IN AMERICA" its about the harley davidson turn around. This sounds good. |
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Greedy corrupt uncareing industy used to pay the workers crap, have unsafe conditions, use child labor, etc. Check out the history of mining, textiles, rail roads, etc. Workers organized for better pay, safety, benefits and the like. Real battles were fought in the past and there was at least one instance of workers being straffed from the air. Some unions became very powerful and then corrupt, remember Jimmy Hofa? They were a hot bed of socialist activity too. As with many things American, there's no middle ground and no one looks at the big picture. Industry is most interested in profits and rarely have any concern for the work force. Unions are interested mostly in workers benefits and their own power and have on occasion caused some industries to become nonprofitable due to high labor costs, etc. When industry understands the work force is one of it's most valuable reasources and treats workers well you don't see much union activity because it's not needed. When an industry is making billions in profit and the work force is poorly paid and poorly treat, well... you get the idea. Some industries, past and present, treat there workers like indentured servants. Some unions conduct themselves like little socialist goverments. Damn, why can't we learn how to make a profit and let the working man make a decent living all at the same time. The answer - greed. GREAT EXAMPLE!!!
I SUGGEST READING A BOOK CALLED "WELL MADE IN AMERICA" its about the harley davidson turn around. Hardly Ablesons are NOT 'well made' motorcycles... The Harley turn-around was mostly due to the realization that they could capitalize on the BRAND NAME regardless of the 'quality' of the product... Well, that and their begging gooberment to 'Save them' from jap bikes over 700CC... Which is why most 700-750cc Jap bikes out there today outperform a 1200cc Harley.... T Shirt Company... Happens to sell motorcycles... I worked for them (Corporate, not factory) once, and I will *never* buy one of their bikes.... |
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If i had to make a choice between supporting a union, or supporting a foreign country you can bet the union will get my money. I believe that the power of the union should be regulated every bit as much as the "free market". 
Protectionism and unionisation will be the death of your industries. |
walmart isn't a thug corporation??? why does walmart profit billions of dollars a year and insist on paying their employees minimum wage? oh yeah a shit job is better then no job!!! BE AMERICAN AND BUY AMERICAN!!!
read a book called "the walmart effect" and another book called "well made in america" the last 2 years the ceo of gm was paid $24,000,000.00... not a bad gig for running a company into the ground. why doesn't he and the rest of the big 3 ceo take a pay cut? a level 8 manager (upper management) at gm gets a new car to use every 6 months for $350.00. plus free gas and free car washes. not a bad little perk. how much money is wasted there? its both management and the unions at fault in the auto industry! management and the unions have to work together! some profitable companies off the top of my head... harley, boeing, caterpillar, john deere, case, borg warner, goodyear and miller beer just to name a few. its not all the unions fault. management has to take their share of the blame. enough said... now im going to put on my flame suit. 
before you ask... im a union carpenter im not a diehard union man im not a commie im a republican / conservative im a us army veteran i pay taxes |
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walmart isn't a thug corporation??? why does walmart profit billions of dollars a year and insist on paying their employees minimum wage? oh yeah a shit job is better then no job!!! BE AMERICAN AND BUY AMERICAN!!!
read a book called "the walmart effect" and another book called "well made in america" the last 2 years the ceo of gm was paid $24,000,000.00... not a bad gig for running a company into the ground. why doesn't he and the rest of the big 3 ceo take a pay cut? a level 8 manager (upper management) at gm gets a new car to use every 6 months for $350.00. plus free gas and free car washes. not a bad little perk. how much money is wasted there? its both management and the unions at fault in the auto industry! management and the unions have to work together! some profitable companies off the top of my head... harley, boeing, caterpillar, john deere, case, borg warner, goodyear and miller beer just to name a few. its not all the unions fault. management has to take their share of the blame. enough said... now im going to put on my flame suit.
before you ask... im a union carpenter im not a diehard union man im not a commie im a republican / conservative im a us army veteran i pay taxes Seriously should the worker make more money just because the business is? |
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Wondering if anyone can explain to me what a union (such as the one in the automoble industry) is and how it works. With the automoble bailout running strong in the media, I hear from some that the unions are a factor in the current automoble industry financial crisis. They talk about unions in a negative way. Any info? The employees aren't happy with their value to their employer, so they all get together and agree to not work until they get what they want. This is their right... but then, they go to the government and get laws passed saying that their employer cannot simply fire them for refusing to work. I have no problem at all with the concept of a union. I do when the union can make themselves become a de facto monopoly supplier of labor and then abuse that monopoly status. A union should be able to call a strike, and the employer ought to be able to tell them they don't have jobs any more. If the employer can hire new people, then they were "right". If they cannot, then they need to go back to the union folks and offer more. |
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Quoted:
walmart isn't a thug corporation??? why does walmart profit billions of dollars a year and insist on paying their employees minimum wage? oh yeah a shit job is better then no job!!! BE AMERICAN AND BUY AMERICAN!!!
read a book called "the walmart effect" and another book called "well made in america" the last 2 years the ceo of gm was paid $24,000,000.00... not a bad gig for running a company into the ground. why doesn't he and the rest of the big 3 ceo take a pay cut? a level 8 manager (upper management) at gm gets a new car to use every 6 months for $350.00. plus free gas and free car washes. not a bad little perk. how much money is wasted there? its both management and the unions at fault in the auto industry! management and the unions have to work together! some profitable companies off the top of my head... harley, boeing, caterpillar, john deere, case, borg warner, goodyear and miller beer just to name a few. its not all the unions fault. management has to take their share of the blame. enough said... now im going to put on my flame suit.
before you ask... im a union carpenter im not a diehard union man im not a commie im a republican / conservative im a us army veteran i pay taxes Seriously should the worker make more money just because the business is? The way that MOST adults can't understand free market theory with respect to employment is nearly always astounding...they have too much emotional attachment, I guess...I'm not a psycho-analytical theorist. |
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Damn. I never realized the gov't power to stomp on a union company if they don't "negotiate in good faith".
I always wondered why GM, etc, didn't just hire non union people and tell the UAW to fuck off. 
Now I know and I'm even more dissapointed in the gov't now than I was before. If that's even possible. |