Posted: 9/24/2008 2:48:43 PM EDT
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While chatting with my insurance agent today I asked about insuring firearms. I was told my homeowners policy will cover me up to $2500, above that I would need to take out a "Personal Articles" policy. Not a big deal, I thought, until they said I would need to submit a list and pictures of the items I want insured. Didn't strike me as equitable to give someone a list and pics of what I have. It also got me to thinking: 1) Would I be better buying insurance through a sympathetical group such as the NRA? 2) Do I ensure only the firearms I purchased through dealers or do I insure my private (re: LEGAL) purchases as well? 3) Does insurance also cover related items (spare parts, reloading equipment, cleaning equipment, gunsmith tools, etc.) 4) Wouls accessories (scopes, rails, etc.) be regarded as part of the firearm? How would they put a cost on them? (EDITED TO ADD) Anybody have insight? M590man |
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How could an insurance company cover items that they don't know you have? Look at it from the perspective of fraud prevention. By insisting on a list, they protect themselves against you claiming the loss of a bunch of guns that you never had. If you file a claim for 10 missing guns, how do they know that you ever had them or what they are worth? A car insurance company won't write you a policy without knowing what you are driving and homeowner's insurance won't cover you if you can't prove that you own a house. |
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Joker 581, No argument with you there, my concern wasn't about giving them proof of what I want them to insure it was providing them with information that, in the event our fine government decides folks like us shouldn't have the right to own said firearms, I didn't want to give the .gov another avenue to make their own list (not that they don't already have one). |
If providing a list is a concern, insurance isn't for you. |
I have the same dilema. I want to get the rest of guns insured but dont feel comfortable giving out SN's and models of what I have. I have an old policy from USAA that covers me up to $6k, but if I want to add any more I have to give them SN's makes and models. Now if big bad Fed comes and asks USAA for lists of guns do you think they will stand up to them and and say no, I respect my clients confidentiality? I doubt it! I wish I could could just get insurance on a dollar amount and if anything were destroyed or stolen then give them SN's makes and models that they could verify with the manufacturer? |
That's right. Unfortunately, I don't want to proide a comprehensive list, either. It's a big dilemma for me. One way or the other, there's risk. |
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I sent the list and got mine insured. Frankly, I think that the possibility of losing my guns to theft, fire, etc is much greater than the possibility of the government getting a list from USAA and coming after me. I am not willing to to take a $25,000 loss in guns out of fear of the government turning on gun owners. |
Can i bet $10 its Farmers that you're talking to on this? Some policies will say $2500 max per firearm and others will say total. You really have to look at the clause in the policy before knowing for sure. Have the agent pull up that section in the coverage and provide you a copy with exactly what it says. You do not have to provide a list, serial numbers, pictures if its going to be under the regular policy. If you choose to go with the "Personal Articles Floater" then that is basically a list of items and their value. You should be able to just list a total amount you want coverage for under the category "guns" and they will charge you a $ amount per $1000 insured, most personal insurance carriers range about $30-70 per $1000 of coverage per year. So it is expensive. Which is why you should consider organization and affiliate policies like the NRA would offer. That said, you really should take pictures of all your personal belongings, serial numbers and keep receipts, put them on a disc or something if its digital and store it at a relative/close friends home. That way if your home burns, your records of what you had dont go with it. If you've had an agent for a while and trust them, you might have the disc put in with your file, but I wouldnt do that until you know they will be around for a while. Many companies have lots of turn over and who knows might end up with your information. That said here are some more thoughts: 1) Would I be better buying insurance through a sympathetical group such as the NRA? Definitely consider it or at least find out how much it costs and what they cover and compare them. 2) Do I ensure only the firearms I purchased through dealers or do I insure my private (re: LEGAL) purchases as well? You can insure anything you like under your policy. Some policies might be itemized where you have to detail every gun and SN, others will be a blanket amount and if you lose it all for some reason, you send them a list of what you had and they cover it until the agreed amount runs out. For example, you get $10,000 in coverage for firearms. If you provide them a list of what you had, they will determine the Actual Cash Value of the items on the list and cut you a check for any amount up to $10,000, which was your agreed limit. Hint, you are proportionately charged for any amount you state, so do not overstate your coverage too much, if you cant substantiate at time of loss, you wont be getting the excess. 3) Does insurance also cover related items (spare parts, reloading equipment, cleaning equipment, gunsmith tools, etc.) Likely yes, this will vary by policy. You will need to find out directly from that company what they consider a firearm or what is considered covered under your personal property clause on your homeowners insurance. Some spare parts when not assembled to be a firearm might just be considered personal property and covered differently. However a stand alone AR15 lower might also be considered a rifle on its own. Its something that if you are concerned about, you need to correspond with the Agent and Company to get very specific details about, if you keep that information too, you can hold them to that coverage if something comes up. Tools, cleaning eq, things of that sort will likely be covered as personal property and not have to be included under firearm coverage. 4) Wouls accessories (scopes, rails, etc.) be regarded as part of the firearm? How would they put a cost on them? (EDITED TO ADD) If they are mounted on the firearm, then likely yes. This is a grey area since you can always indicate that these items were not attached to a firearm at the time of loss. They would determine ACV or Actual Cash Value of each item by finding out what new or used replacement cost would be at current rates. The stickiest thing you can get into is if you have a collectors type item that cannot be easily replaced. In that case you need to get an appraisal and have it insured for "stated value". |
No kidding. My wife and I have been making up an inventory of what we have, complete with S/N, make, model, caliber, etc. and pictures. No way I'm going to take that much loss on what has taken me several years to accumulate. |
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You are better off to insure them under a Personal property policy for a couple reasons.... -most will cover the property anywhere in the world -it wont affect your homeowners if you file a claim -it will cover beyond the min covered by your homeowners -You decide the amount to insure, ie you set the value (close to replacement cost usually) -you can put other items beside firearms (jewelry, art ect) and you can get free ins from the NRA... they are usually inexpensive... |
This is where the AR15 saying get both should really be followed. Get the insurance and the sturdy safe. I did. |
Insurance should not be an excuse to not safeguard your guns, just like a gunsafe shouldn't be the only line of defense against complete loss. |
I guess I'm missing something. My home owners insurance doesn't require me to list my TV's Bluray players, furniture etc. why should they need to know about my firearms? |
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Spool32 - State Farm is my carrier; not sure how they compare. To clarify they said they would cover $2500 for firearms on my Homeowner's policy, no list needed. If I want more, I have to take out a Personal Article policy at which point I have to provide pics and info. M590man |
I don't know about your specific insurance company but most only provide coverage of items up to a certain amount. I suspect that when it comes time to claim your policy, they'll be expecting you to provide some kind of evidence that you owned the items you are claiming if they are of significant value. Maybe circumstances vary based on the value of what you are claiming. My renter's policy would cover about $2500 worth of guns. My collection is worth ten times that amount, and I don't think that any sane company would ensure that type of property without at least having a list of items and approximate values. |
Same here. They suggest that you get a list for all high-dollar items, but it's not required for the basic coverage. There are also some other factors; for example, when I had renter's insurance when I lived on campus in college, they refused to provide additional coverage for electronics and musical instruments (guitars) since they were "high risk" items for theft. Absolutely no such issues now that I've left all of that crap (college) behind. |
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I had the same problem with my homeowners policy. I told the agent(i've had him 30 years). He said make a list of the guns with serial numbers and keep the list in an off site location in case of fire. Guns covered for replacement cost. Of course they are in a fire proof safe and in a seperate building from the house with a fire surpresent system(all in my work room). |