Posted: 4/28/2008 6:53:42 AM EDT
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With all the economic stimulus checks and threads flying around...lets take a minute and define 'middle class' It would seem that the middle class and below are getting checks, while the rich are not. What dollar figure actually defines middle class, or is it not a dollar figure and more on possessions and how you handle your finances? |
I'm thinking for a single person. Also, I think middle class varies from state to state, as well. |
I make more than twice your upper limit of $45K and I still consider myself middle class. I'm far from being "rich". My sister is an attorney and my other sister is a director at a large hospital and they aren't "rich" either. Like already said, $20K is borderline poverty level. I'd say middle class extends to around $150K. |
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Lower Class is somebody who is focused on sustaining life. Middle Class is somebody who is focused on obtaining comforts in life. Upper Class is somebody who is focused on fulfillment, and investing in their family and themselves. Think Maslow. Has nothing to do with money IMO; and any redistribution thereof is largely temporary. |
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It is really relative. The pizza delivery guy thinks I'm rich. I know I'm not. I know a lot of people who make close to a million/year and I assure you, they don't think they are rich. Rich to me is someone who never needs to work again and could maintain their present lifestyle. If you can do that, you are rich........... |
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accoording to the last Obama Clinton debate they both promised not to raise taxes on the middle class. when asked a $ threshold Clinton said nobody under $250K, Obama said $200K. so according to them $200-250 K is "middle class" if your household makes less then 37K a year you pay no federal income taxes and in gact get a EIC back see below April 16, 2008 As reported by Fox News. The impact of the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts is often debated, but rarely explained. Wealthier taxpayers did get larger dollar deductions in taxes because the cuts were in percentage terms, but taxpayers at lower income levels were hardly hurt. In fact, many were taken off the tax rolls all together. The latest figures show the wealthy got relatively larger cuts – they are now paying an overwhelming share of the total tax burden and sparing those with lower incomes. * The top one percent (1%), with incomes of $1.3 Million or more now pay almost forty percent (40%) of all taxes. * The top twenty percent (20%) with incomes of about two hundred and fifteen thousand and up - pay eighty six percent (86%) of all taxes. * The top forty percent (40%) – meaning people with taxable incomes of about ninety five thousand and above, pay ninety nine point four percent (99.4%) of all income taxes. * That leaves the bottom sixty percent (60%) people with incomes below fifty thousand, paying only six tenths percent (6/10 %) of all taxes. * And, the bottom forty percent (40%) with incomes below thirty seven thousand, not only pay no taxes, but they actually get money back from the government. Many democrats including Senators Obama and Clinton have made it clear that they will not extend the Bush tax cuts as a whole, but would pass some breaks of their own for the middle class. The problem is, many poor and middle class families pay no federal income taxes now, so even with the tax cuts of recent years, more and more the total tax burden has shifted to those who are better off. Wealthier taxpayers benefit from the tax cuts, alright… but apparently not at the expense of the poor and the middle class. |
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it also depends on local economics IMHO, Where I am at, you can't buy a house for under 200k in an area you would want to live in. So if you make 40K a year you are SOL. Make 60K you can do it. So here in sunny Florida I would say middle class if from 50K to 250k. Me? I'm poor. |
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75k doesn't go as far as it used to. This isn't my budget, but it could be. 6360/month. subtract federal and where applicable state income taxes=1/k month minimum 85k in college and graduate loans=1k/month rent/mortgage/utilities/renters or homeowners insurance=1.5k/month car insurance= 120/month food= 500/month gas= 250/month health insurance=??? misc. expenses=??? This doesn't even count any credit card debt if you have that. Being rich is a misleading term. I'd much rather be wealthy than rich. Having a decent income doesn't necessarily make you rich. |
I'm in the same boat as you...not getting a check..it doesnt bother me, I can get along fine without it..BUT I feel as if myself, wife, and 2 kids are middle class, even though we made too much money to get a check. So it appears to me, some middle class folks are getting stimulated, some middle class folks arent. Is this a government division of the 'classes' |
Dollar figure would vary by location... For most of the US: $40K to 100k individual income... East & West coast? Go higher.... A more accurate segregation would be by job/training reqs... Upper: Professionals (Docs, Lawyers, etc) and White Collar Management... Post-B.S. education required.... Middle: White Collar employees, Retail/Service/Manufacturing management, some skilled trades... Further education (either B.S. or trade-specific training) required beyond HS... Lower: Blue Collar/Manufacturing/Service employees.... Most jobs you can get with a HS diploma... |
Dave, 100k when 2 spouses work full time is not hard to achieve...income up to 150k gets a check. So by your definition, rich people are also participating in the wealth redistribution |
I am speaking for INDIVIDUAL (as in SINGLE person) income... Not 2 folks working + kids to pay for, etc... As for the 'economic stimulus' check... IMHO everyone who pays taxes should get one.... Like I said above... I see it more as a type-of-work/education-required thing... That definition allows the income to fluctuate with the local cost of living... Lower middle class income in WI is probably poverty level in NY, for example... It certainly wouldn't get you a house in NYC, but can easily pay for one in Milwaukee... |
Alright, lets look at your opinion of middle class, especially the highlighted in red part...I have no official education beyond high school, but made enough to not get a check...so where does that leave me? Now lets look at your definition of lower class...I would think a blue collar factory worker with wages of 25 plus an hour, comes of to a minimum of 52k a year, which should be middle class |
I think that is the point I am trying to justify in my mind...we really cant put a dollar figure on the classes. In fact we cant even come close |
He is wrong. He is looking at it from his point of view. He doesn't realize that in East Texas any swinging dick who will show up for work everyday can make $20/ hour and get all of the overtime he wants right now. There are plenty of uneducated "oilfield trash" making $100K right now. 
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After everything is said and done, the definition of "rich" will boil down to the fact that is that anyone who works for a living. Here in Calif, the state govt taxes the "rich" more, but as a consequence when the "rich" get poorer, they state suffers tremendous decrease in tax revenue. Even thought the state democratic politicos disdain the "rich," they are definitely needed. It is better than everyone shares the burden for the benefit of the whole state. |
The economics of that industry will eliminate most of those jobs within the next 5-10 years... The future of US manufacturing (outside highly-skilled operations (which I included in my definition of 'middle')) is sub-$10/hr... The rest will (And should) be outsourced... |
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Its actually possible (in many parts of the country) for a two-income family to make what Obama and Clinton call "rich man money" and still be just scraping by. For example, a senior grabageman in NYC and a schoolteacher in the NYC public school system. And never forget, it was Al Gore who defined the new Democratic party mantra of "the rich" at $250L. He said that people who make $250K a year are "millionaires" because "in 4 years, they make a million dollars". Notice that the top half of taxpayers (omitted from the article above) starts at $50K. That's where "progressives" really think "rich" begins (except for them, Obama is a 'regular working class guy' whose wife had to take two part time - board of directors' positions - at measly 'six figure' slave wages to pay for their kids' dance and music lessons - hey! Obama knows our pain, he knows how expensive arugula is at Whole Foods and how expensive a sandwich made with $100 a pound ham is!). For the Democrats, class warfare is about tricking you into voting for them with schemes of "soaking the rich" because Democrats are "for the little guy" - then you find out YOU are the "rich" and they've made sure their fortunes and those of their billionaire donors are safe. Obama thought no one knew about his "bitter" remarks given in front of a packed room of billionaires in San Francisco. The first story was that he let the mask slip. The real story was that he let it slip in front of "his people" - the ultra-rich. |
| Median US household income is around $48K/yr. That includes everyone from retired, welfare recipients, average joes, and hedge fund managers--half make more than that, half less. The 80th percentile--20% make that much or more--is around $90K/yr. The 95th percentile--you're in the top 5% of income--is around $150K. |
I think krpind is pretty close here...but you still have the question of the standard of living you'd have to achieve (without working) to qualify as rich. If someone is content living on ~$50k a year, then he could easily be "rich" (as in not having to work) with less than a million in the bank. Now given, that's a lot of money, but hardly what I think of when I think of rich people. A buddy and I were talking about how much money we'd need to just get up and walk away from our jobs (with the understanding that you would never have to work again if you didn't want to). We came up with something between $3-5 million; with that, you could pay off debts, buy a couple new cars, buy a ~$500k house, and live very well (within reason) off the interest for the rest of your life. How about defining "rich" as having $1M+ of assets (excluding your principal residence)? |
Like I said, location relative... Where I was from before I joined the Army (Milwaukee, WI) the above applied... The minimum for a 'middle class' life was some sort of skilled trade (electrician, etc)... |
Not really but someone making 200k and not supporting a family i do consider well off, me on the other hand ill keep my 36k a year and stay in the gutter 
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In Calif, we are taxed to the max, and everything is expensive, the $100,000/year in Calif won't go very far even if you live in the poorer parts of the state. It is cheaper to live in N. Calif than in So. Calif. |
Don't forget that people in these professions typically have student loans to the tune of $120-150K. Just like having a second home mortgage payment, except if you make over $65,000 - ooops - too bad, you make too much and you can't deduct the interest anymore. |