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AR15.COM
4/4/2008 5:24:06 PM EDT
I wonder why it is that when names (commonly, place names) are transliterated into English from a language that doesn't use the same alphabet and/or includes sounds that are not used in English*, we end up with spellings that don't produce even a fair approximation of the word as spoken in its native tongue. Some examples (of varying quality) come to mind.

Peking / Beijing. It's one or the other. The 2 transliterations share only 2 sounds: the penultimate  [ee] and the terminal [ng].

Bombay / Mumbai. In addition to the different sounds, the syllables of the former are nearly equally emphasized, while the latter syllable of the latter transliteration is more heavily accented.

Moscow. While I believe the Russians pronounce it "mosco," the transliteration raises (and usually yields) the possibility for English speakers of "moscou."

Cambodia / Kampuchea. While I can almost see Brit consonant-swallowing as the source of the most prominent difference (think of Colonel Mustard pronouncing the former "cambochya"), why does the primary accent jet from the second syllable in the former down to the third in the latter?

Why isn't "Paris" spelled "perry" or "paree" in English.

In short, why aren't foreign words (at least proper nouns, which do not get swallowed and used as English words in common discourse) spelled according to (admittedly irregular and elusive) English convention when written in English?

* Hold a lit match in front of your mouth. Say "stop" and then "top." Notice the flame. At "top," the flame will wave about a bit when the "t" is uttered; the "t" in "stop" will move the flame much less, if at all. The two "t"s are different sounds, and in some languages, the distinction can have meaning. In English it has none, and we generally don't hear it.

The commonly remarked upon "l"/"r" confusion when some native speakers of Asian languages speak English is another example. Think of the silly joke whose punch line consists of an Asian jumping out on his supervisor and yelling "Supplies!" In (iirc) Chinese and Japanese, neither sound occurs, or if it does, it has no significance.
4/4/2008 5:30:39 PM EDT
[#1]
If I'm not mistaken your first two were name changes...
4/4/2008 5:37:12 PM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
If I'm not mistaken your first two were name changes...


Correct.  And Moscow in Russian is more like "Maskva".
4/4/2008 5:58:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Cambodia is the traditional English transliteration, taken from the French Cambodge, while Kampuchea is the direct transliteration, more faithful to the Khmer pronunciation.

* * *

Beijing or Peking (北京) literally means "northern capital", in line with the common East Asian tradition whereby capital cities are explicitly named as such. Other cities that are similarly named include Nanjing (南京), China, meaning "southern capital"; Tokyo (東京), Japan, and Đông Kinh (東京, now Hanoi), Vietnam, both meaning "eastern capital"; as well as Kyoto (京都), Japan, and Gyeongseong (京城; now Seoul), Korea, both meaning simply "capital". Peking is the name of the city according to Chinese Postal Map Romanization, and the traditional customary name for Beijing in English. The term Peking originated with French missionaries four hundred years ago and corresponds to an older pronunciation predating a subsequent sound change in Mandarin from [kʲ] to [tɕ][4]. ([tɕ] is represented in pinyin as j, as in Beijing), and is still used in some languages (as in Portuguese, Bulgarian, Russian, Serbian, Dutch, German, Hungarian, Polish and Spanish).

The city has been renamed several times. During the Jin Dynasty, the city was known as Zhongdu (中都) , and then later under the Mongol Yuan Dynasty as Dadu (大都) in Chinese, and Khanbaliq in Mongolian (recorded as Cambuluc by Marco Polo). After the reconquest of the city by the Ming it was known as Shuntian (順天), and later as Peiping (北平 Pinyin: Beiping; Wade-Giles: Pei-p'ing), literally "Northern Peace", a name it received in 1928.[3] On both occasions, the name changed — with the removal of the element meaning "capital" (jing or king, 京) — to reflect the fact the national capital had changed to Nanjing, the first time under the Hongwu Emperor of the Ming Dynasty, and the second time with the Kuomintang (KMT) government of the Republic of China, so that Peking was no longer the capital of China. The Communist Party of China reverted the name to Beijing (Peking) in 1949 again in part to emphasize that Beijing had returned to its role as China's capital.[3]



4/4/2008 6:01:31 PM EDT
[#4]
There is an "r" sound in Mandarin, but it is much further back in your throat and sound much more like urrrr than arrr.

There is no l.
4/4/2008 6:02:50 PM EDT
[#5]
Answer is the Enfield rifle.
4/4/2008 6:07:07 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
Answer is the Enfield rifle.


Well played, sir.
4/4/2008 7:57:07 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Answer is the Enfield rifle.


Well played, sir.



.....3 Bonus points ........