[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why I open carry (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/8/2008 11:42:26 AM EDT
|
Ok, I don't see this much on here, but it has been an emotional debate lately on every other forum I frequent. I am not debating the tactics of open carry. That is not why I do it. I carry concealed and openly at alternating times every day. I am not biased towards one or the other. When I open carry it is frequently simply because I prefer 3 o'clock carry, and it is too hot for a shirt. One of the great side effects of this is that I get into lots of conversations with people about guns and shooting. I have long since lost track of how many people I have been able to tell about LouisianaCarry.org and Long Range Alley gun club (my gun club), that I would never had spoken with, had I not had a gun on my hip as an ice breaker. I have never had the slightest problem open carrying. Usually the conversation goes like this: Them: "Are you a cop or something?" Me: "No, I carry because I feel it is every adult's civic duty to be adequately prepared to defend himself and/or those around him." Them: "That makes sense. I have been wanting to buy a gun." Me: "It makes good sense to have one, just like it is a good idea to wear a seat belt and have insurance. I would recommend you get connected with someone who can help you learn how to use one correctly and safely, if you get one though. If you visit www.lacarry.org, you can get alot of good info about safety, training, maps to practice ranges and other useful resources to get you started. I will even bring you to the range as my guest, if you like. Here is my business card." The more people armed and proficient with weapons, the better off we all are. That outweighs the perceived negative tactical considerations that are potentially associated with open carry, to me. Also, the more regular people going about their day that people see with weapons, the more chances there are that people will shed the Hollywood perception that only bad guys and cops have guns. Guns are a large part of why we have a country in the first place, and we should do all we can not to let the mainstream media stigmatize them. I would always advise anyone considering open carry to be advised that many (NOT ALL!) LEOs are less concerned with respecting your decisions and adhering to the law as they are in preventing the possible mass panic associated with "ZOMG A MAN WITH A GUN!" More than one person has had trumped up charges brought against them for simply carrying a gun, which is a legal act in many States. You should be able to defeat these charges, and hopefully sue the heck out of the department that did it to you, but it may cost you alot of time, money and lost work. That is worth it for some of us, for others it is not. Consider how you will handle various encounters before they occur. I OC every day in Shreveport, and have never had a problem. You may very easily run into trouble. It is not a decision to enter into lightly. For me, though, I am an RKBA evangelist. Turning people on to guns and carrying them is worth the hassle. To me, the 2A is black and white. I devote myself to it in every way I see available. Most people are not like that, I know. I am not faulting them for it, but to those that see it mainly as means to hunt or provide for their own personal safety, they will not understand why I take the positions I take. To me, abridging the RKBA is a blow to the very heart of what form of republican government this Nation and my State have remaining. I battle those abridgments at every turn, as best as I am able, out of my own sense of patriotism and civic duty. I will continue to open carry, I am sure, even if I were to ever run into trouble. |
I open carry now and then, but frankly - I don't always like the attention. Sometimes I just want to be left alone.  I've never panicked anybody. As far as I know, nobody has ever called the cops on me. I don't open carry in big cities like Toledo, though. I occasionally do it around here. Honestly, it's a but unnerving, because everybody is staring at you. |
|
Open carrying falls under that rule I have that goes "Do NOT invite the Man into your life". Also, as we've seen recently, nutcases are far more likely to take out the openly armed person first. I don't carry to make a political statement, or to get attention, or as a means of opening up conversation with other citizens, sheep or LEO's. I carry to protect myself and my loved ones. In my opinion carrying concealed is a far better way to achieve that goal than carrying openly. YMMV, that's what makes this country great. If you feel open carry is the most effective means to meet your goals, then by all means, carry on. |
I respect this post very much. I was recently relieved as a moderator of another forum, because I could not resist calling the open carry bashers to task. If more people had your type of "We are all adults and can make our own decisions" attitude, things would be so much better. Thank you. |
I must have missed seeing that. What are you referring too? |
That sounds like the kind of conversation that only happens in gun board posts about interactions with gun owners. It's the gun owners version of "Dear Penthouse Forum:" |
The nutcase, Cookie something or other, who recently broke into town hall meeting somewhere and shot and killed the Mayor and several others. First he shot and killed the obviously armed person outside (a cop) and took his gun, then he went inside and immediately shot the only obviously armed person inside (another cop) and took his gun. then he proceeded to shoot the place up until more police arrived and killed him. These people are crazy, but they're not stupid. |
Hopefully! Really might go more like this..... Me: "La, la, la, tum de dum (minding own business)." Them: "BANG, BANG, BANG. Freeze, Police!" AR15.com: "Lost another team member today...." 
|
Maybe it's a LA thing. When I open carry, people either stare, or outright keep their distance from me. Many are visibly nervous. One mother pulled her children closer, and starting walking faster. |
|
Open carry has its benefits and its drawbacks. It can act as a deterrent and on more than one occasion in real life I know of, it has stopped an attack before it started. Most bad guys are looking for prey. Somebody with a gun on their hip is NOT easy prey. As such most bad guys won't screw with somebody packing a gun....even if their brain isn't plugged in. Example: An executive member of VCDL was in a bank openly carrying his 1911. He was busy worrying about the details of his business while standing in line and didn't notice a guy walking in the door with a gun and a mask to rob the place. The robber saw the VCDL member, saw his handgun, and beat feet at maximum warp. Now had this gentleman not been openly carrying his weapon, he might have had to actually USE his weapon to fend off a violent attack. Having the attack stopped before you even know it is in progress is a GOOD thing. That being said, the armed citizen learned a valuable lesson about mindset and paying attention to his surroundings that day, thankfully one that didn't cost him his life. If you are going to carry openly you MUST be switched on and aware of your surroundings. Openly carrying increases the chances you are going to have an interaction with law enforcement. Like it or not the majority of people in our society aren't aware of the laws and aren't used to people walking around openly armed. Thus it's highly likely that if you head into a typical urban or suburban area packing heat somebody is going to call the law. When the police show up BE POLITE AND PROFESSIONAL. Cooperate with the officers who are just trying to do their job. Most armed people the police interact with are the wrong sort...by being polite and professional you are demonstrating that there's a difference between you and the normal breed of idiots they deal with on a regular basis. When dealing with others whether you wish to be or not you are an ambassador for the cause of the 2nd amendment. Don't leave a bad taste in the mouth of others, ESPECIALLY law enforcement officers. |
I don't know where that happened, but I would be willing to bet that it was a State that didn't allow carry in municipal buildings. Therefore, the shooter knew he had a limited number of specific targets. Sounds to me more like an argument against criminal safety zones (aka gun free zones) than an argument against one form of carry or another. If the guy thought that 20 more people might have been carrying, that may not have happened, or at least gone down much differently. |
People will react differently to those who OC. Most I've run into don't even notice I have the weapon on. The majority of people spend much of their life in an almost asleep state where they notice hardly ANYTHING going on around them, including a guy carrying a 1911 three feet in front of them as he pays for his gas and a cup of coffee from the Sheetz mini-mart in the middle of the day. Some people notice but try desperately to pretend that they don't. It's actually quite entertaining to watch somebody suddenly realize you have a gun and then watch them stare holes in the floor hoping, I suppose, that you won't hurt them if they just try to become a tree. Some people notice and freak out. These people are usually the ones who dial 911 on a guy with a holstered weapon who is PAYING FOR A PURCHASE....  Then there are those who notice and will keep an eye on you or perhaps strike up a conversation with you. These are usually either cops or gun people. |
3rdPig makes a good point here: Active shooters *DO* tend to go after the people who they can readily identify as a threat FIRST. It's just common sense. Determined criminals who factor in armed resistance are more dangerous than the typical thug....armed resistance isn't deterring them. Unfortunately we don't know what sort of scumbag we can end up facing when we walk out the door in the morning. In some situations OC can be a benefit...in others a liability. |
If you are a clean, focused looking, healthy, reasonable well dressed adult male who is behaving in a calm and controlled manner, people will simply assume you are a cop or are supposed to have a gun. If you are calm and confident and above all normal, people won't give a damn including cops in the area. This is provided you are in a free state, of course. |
|
What a different world I live in... I would consider myself lucky to get a CCW, much less a pistol permit in the first place. I've never seen anyone open carry before. I think I would be surprised and automatically consider the person LE. You just never see it. If the option were available, I think I would go concealed. I don't need the stares or questions, but would focus mostly on mixing in with the general crowd. |
|
MN. is open carry, but I carry concealed for the most part. One thing I don't do anymore, is worry if I print or show my gun making every day body movements. Is this worce than going one way or the other? Any thoughts? GM ETA: Forgot to mention to LouisianaCarry and JW for making good points. |
Generally if you are carrying concealed printing or showing the weapon is something you want to avoid. |
I'm in Seattle and am starting to open carry. I only do it on days when I can spend some of my free time downtown though. |
Maybe the reason the "obviously armed" people were shot first was because they were UNIFORMED police officers? If I were intent on harm, I'd take out the uniforms first, too. I've noticed that most examples against open carry involve criminals shooting a cop (in uniform) first, and extending that to to your average citizen. Doesn't work. I completely disagree that carrying a handgun openly is equivalent to a SHOOT ME FIRST sign. It's not like criminals have some kind of high-tech sensor that allows them to zero in on every gun in the room; besides, most criminals are cowards, and would rather run from someone who is armed and confident enough to advertise it. As someone in another thread said, it's about time we become ambassadors for the 2nd Amendment, instead of embarrassed by it. |
Could you please point out to me where "We" have seen this, cuz I seem to have missed it. I think too many people like to imagine criminals as some kind of tactically minded super evil that plans their crimes down to the detail and has no problem killing "Every Mutha-fucker in the place" when in reality most of them rush into their crimes with very little for-thought with the situational awareness of a drunk cow. They would most likely overlook someone wearing a gun because they just don't expect it. I also think that if they did actually see someone carrying a gun they wouldn't try to take him out first, instead they would leave and come back later because they don't want to get into a gunfight, they don't want to die and while they may be willing to do the 3 years for armed robbery, they don't want to do life or the chair for murder. There are probably less than 10% (maybe even less than 5%) of the bad guys that really have no problem killing the poor sap standing in line for a pack of smokes and are clear minded enough to check for guns before pulling theirs. ETA: couple of word changes and additions. |
Can't carry in Maryland, so I'll comment on the 32000 posts! Awesome!!! |
|
+1, I made the decision to start open carrying when I asked my local police dept. if it was legal and they told me it wasn't...even though I knew it was. I ordered my holster and now open carry when I leave the house. I'm holding down the RKBA in Hammond LACarry. P.S. I also called the Shreveport PD after the Hammond PD. To see what they said, and surpise, surprise they told me I would be arrested for public intimidation or something. (me and my brother were trying to be 100% sure it was legal in LA before we started...according to the cops, it's not acceptable.) That was about a year ago now. |
|
You make some very good points LACarry. One could also parallel that with NFA firearms to a certain degree. While not legal to do so in TX I do OC on my property where it is legal. My personal opinion is that if you want to OC go for it, it's way more comfortable and you can carry a proper sized handgun. I like CCW, I just don't want the attention, I just want to take care of my business w/o talking to every chatty Kathy on my way out.  We'll be in Shreveport next weekend, maybe we'll see ya around. |
Too many ways to get screwed around LV on OC. North LV and Henderson or Boulder City are no OC areas. We just decided to get our NRCCW since we usually stay near the strip. It is kinda neat seeing folks in the greater LV area OCing. Hardly anyone bats an eye. 
|
I doubt it. The reason they were shot first was because they were armed and could stop the shooter before he was ready to be stopped. Also, he wanted their guns so he could do more damage faster than stopping to reload his own. In these cases I think the uniform does little more than to advertise the the existence of their sidearm. |
Hey, brian! It sure is easier having this conversation here than other places, huh? Yeah, the SPD is largely full of crap. I purposely bought a house outside the city so that the SD would be a responder, if I ever did have to make that call. No surprise about Hammond, either, from what I hear. Hope all goes well. |
Good post, and I would love to meet up. I will likely go to the range at some point. You are welcome to stop in! My # is (877) LA CARRY. |
That's my point exactly. They got shot first because of the uniform, not because of the gun on their hip. Most armed people aren't in uniform, so they don't stand out nearly as much. You can't tell me you can run into a room full of people in street clothes and in less than a couple of seconds identify and engage only those with pistols on their belts. If so, that's quite the skill set you have. That's like you telling me, at a glance, which people out of a group of twenty or so have a cell phone on their belt. Also, the one's you're worried about are the < 10% of the population intent on homocide that are actually trying to kill (as opposed to rob) someone, and they'd be gunning for a specific target (ex-wife, etc.), like the nutcase you mentioned, and only shooting those who get in the way. As I mentioned in my above post, most of the criminals we're talking about are cowards but they're not stupid---they're not going to go against someone who's confident enough to wear a gun in public. No, I think most people look at this the wrong way--taking the risks an OBVIOUS target like a cop in uniform has, and applying them to someone in street clothes who blends in much, much more than a cop would. Apples & oranges. |