[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Vote for Hillary! (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/15/2008 8:49:30 AM EDT
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With the way things are going with likely Obama vs McCain where most of us will agree that Obama will clobber Mccain in general, I think AR15commers in the remaining states should strategically caucus for Hillary so she gets the dem nom. I'd rather see Hillary V McCain than Obama V McCain any day. All of them are douche bags but sadly we need to pick our poison. |
 And you guys say a vote for Paul is a vote for Hillary |
And Obama supporters will be pissed enough to vote R, correct?
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A vote for Ron Paul running as an independent would have been so. NOT in the primaries. In the Republican Primaries, a vote for Ron Paul may very well have ended up being a vote for McCain, as we now see. |
I'm all set here. I never thought I would be waiting to vote for Hillary, but as close as the dem race is, my vote WILL count, and Obama must not win TX. ETA: I'm going to feel like a real douchebag if Hillary ends up commander-in-chief. 
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The fact that you criticize us "Paulbots" for that yet promote caucusing for Hillary is hypocritical. |
What makes you think the Obama supporters won't go for Clinton if she gets the nod? |
You do understand the difference between a primary and a general election, right? I mean, it's not as complicated as the Electoral College concept, so you might get it. |
I doubt that, but probably there will be a segment that does not vote at all if they are pissed their "rock star" candidate was cheated out of his chance. |
Read first. |
That is exactly what I am hoping for. I have never voted for a Democrat before and it is hard for me to bring myself to do it, but on 3/4 I will be pulling the lever for Hillary. [Grand Moff Tarkin]I'm taking an awful risk, this had better work![/Grand Moff Tarkin] |
Because Clinton isn't as popular with independents as Obama is. She's easier to beat in a general election. It's not rocket science. |
Most probably will. Not all. |
No it isn't. He sees voting as a means to an end, a means of self-expression. A vote for Hillary does not = a vote of support. Chess, not checkers. |
No. They will stay home. He's right, sorry. |
Correct. And if we can knock Obama out first then Hillary will be much easier to beat. However, if Hillary falls first then Obama is going to be a real challenge. |
This is especially true because of the proportional awarding of delegates that the Dems do. Even if Obama wins a state, he still splits the delegates with Clinton, so every vote for Hillary can help take a delegate from Obama. |
nou. I asked a similar question earlier on.
No. They will vote for Clinton. I'm right, sorry. |
I believe your thoughts will be the outcome. |
Obama is much more likely to win the general election. I'd rather McCain in charge of the ATF. |
I can only hope. I can't shake the feeling that a Democrat will be our next president. |
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I'm not convinced that McCain would have an easier time against Hillary than he would against Obama. It think it all depends on whether or not Obama's popularity continues to grow - or if some of his "shine" wears off. The problem with Hillary is that she is more centrist than Obama, so she and McCain will be fighting for a lot of the same independents. Obama however is to the left of Hillary, which means that McCain will be able to take more of the center away, and get more of those independents than he could against Hillary. Also, while a lot of Republicans hate Hillary, and running against her might galvanize the Republican base a little better, I personally think that attacking Obama in a ong general election would be much easier than attacking Hillary. Obama's clea-cut position on the war is much easier to attack, and I think McCain would tear him a new asshole, as well as his position on negotiating with Iran (a la Chamberlain) - I think a number of his positions make him very vulnerable to attack by McCain. Hillary is much more pragmatic, and has positioned herself in ways that are harder to attack. Plus, the fact that Obama is basically all hot air and an empty (albeit charismatic) suit, raises the very real possibility that he might deflate in the next nine months. Some in the media are already starting to ask "where's the beef" - and if that continues, he could eventually end up quite weak. So I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing  - but I'm saying that I think there's a REAL chance that McCain might actually have a much better chance against Obama than he would against Hillary, so it's not as clear-cut at it appears, IMO. |
Never, ever, ever, count the Klintons out. You do so at your own peril. |
Agreed. We have a much better chance against her then him. She's just too damn cold and distant and dosn't have the fanatical support that BHO has been getting as of late. |
The fact that her campaign machine has all but called blacks for Obama a bunch of race only voting idiots and was the first one to subtly play the race card in reverse. She has allowed her campaign, including her husband to not only go after Obama, but make potshots at his supporters as well. It's one thing to say "This guy isn't qualified", but it's another to insinuate that you're an idiot for supporting him. Kinda puts a wedge between interpersonal relations. That and as was pointed out, she'll play her dirty tricks game and Obamas' supporters will be really pissed. They won't forgive her for it. They'd rather stay home and make a protest no-vote then back her. Hell, most of her own party only tolerates her as most don't actually like her. |
oohh..wait until they try and take page three, but fail! They'll come back though with a poll that "proves" that everybody thought he won it anyways....
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I agree with DK. I think Barak Obama will be very easy to beat in the general election. GW Bush honestly came off as a nitwit in both of his campaigns and he beat both Al Gore and John F Kerry. Gore is a moderate liberal with plenty of experience. Kerry is a moderate liberal with plenty of experience. Both lost to Bush. I don’t see how a far left inexperienced Senator is possibly going to do better against McCain. At some point the American people are going to have to honestly look at the position and qualifications of all of the candidates and Obama doesn’t measure up. His race is probably a wash either way. He will attract a bit of white guilt vote as well as some of the Black vote. But his skin color is probably going to repel some White people and some Black people will see him as an African outsider and not truly one of them. The Democrats have their own maverick senator who is actually somewhat moderate and that’s Joe Lieberman. Imagine if he was on the ticket, or if moderate Democrat Bill Richardson had won. Now imagine that someone on the far right had won the Republican nomination… Alan Keyes for example. Think that the Conservatives would really have a chance in that situation? What it comes down to is that Obama can only get the extreme left vote and the race based vote in the general election. McCain will get the moderate vote and probably the grudging support of the Conservatives. That should easily give the race to McCain. I see it as a simple formula… If both parties nominate an extremist then the race becomes one of “our extremist is less scary than your extremist. If the parties nominate two moderates then it becomes one of “our moderate is more moderate than your moderate.” But if one party picks an extremist and one picks a moderate the moderate will win every time. Things get interesting when the parties nominate mainstream Conservatives (Fred Thompson, Ronald Reagan) or mainstream Liberals (Clinton, Gore, etc.) to run against a moderate. Then the enthusiasm from the base can beat the wider, but less enthusiastic, appeal of the moderate… Sometimes. I just can’t see Obama winning. |
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You do know that a few weeks ago, this site was all the buzz about some members going out to vote for Obama just because they wanted to see Hillary's downfall? I definately share your concern. Obama really scares the hell out of me. I never thought I'd want to see Hillary succeed, but actually voting for her at any stage of the election? I just don't think I could look at myself in the mirror afterwards. We are all screwed either way. Drastic times call for drastic measures. |
You're not doing it because you want her to succeed, though, you're doing it because ultimately you want her to fail. |
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If Obama gets the nomination, his real political leanings will be exposed to the full noonday sun thereby making the heretofore moderate McCain look like a shining white knight of conservatism by comparison. It's possible, however that Obama's cult of personality would continue to overwhelm the cold hard facts of his extreme socialism. Remember how gullible and addle minded the American electorate is. I do think Hillary is so polarizing that she would lose against McCain. Obama is more of a wild card.  ETA: grammar |
Yeah, I know. The thing that I can't get past is that if she wins the primary and goes on to beat McCain, no matter how I vote in November, I will have had a small hand in her getting into the White House. Plus, I don't want to see the word "DEMOCRAT" stamped on my voters card. I know, "REPUBLICAN" isn't much better anymore. My hat's off to those of you who are stronger than I am. |
Does Texas have the option of a write-in during the primary? If so, could you go into the Republican booth and write-in Hillary? |
 I really don't want to have to answer "Yes" if anyone asks if I ever voted for Hillary or not. I may just do a write-in vote on March 4, though. |
Yea, a bunch of pissed off, disenfranchised Dems are gonna flock to the source of their collective anger. Whatever you say. |
A lot of blacks will stay home - Bill and Hill alienated a lot of them with their use of the race card. If Hillary manages to beat Obama by using the "dirty trick" of getting MI and FL delegates seated, she'll alienate even more. Furthermore, Hillary isn't liberal enough for some of Obama's supporters, who may vote for Nader instead of Obama doesn't get the nomination. |