Posted: 1/3/2008 1:21:46 PM EDT
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Hey All, I am pretty new here, but wanted to bring this up. If this has been discussed before and everyone is tired of hearing about it, I apologize. I don’t have a search option since I am testing the water to see if I want to be a paying member, so bare with me. Heck, I don’t even know if this is the right place to post this. I want to start a post about Airsoft. Airsoft isn’t that for kids? Let me explain how I came to airsoft. I spent time in the Military, private security, and then into Law Enforcement. After almost two decades I have found that the best training is force on force. Anyone who has experienced QUALITY force on force training will probably tell you that. My problem……money. To do simunitions training is expensive after the initial set up fee of somewhere around $400 a gun you then have to pay about 57 cents a shot (which adds up quickly). So I found a group of guys that were interested in paintball. We set up a course, but the realism was just not there. I did learn a lot from my paintball days. I learned that I stuck my elbow out to far and quickly learned to turn my elbows in, this was learned thru much bruising. I also learned how to use cover better and to my advantage. The guns were not realistic but the knowledge and experiences I learned are priceless. Since I have a drive to improve and expand I have kept an eye on airsoft and have been very interested. I found one story interesting, a citizen of Japan, where it is illegal to have a handgun (must be crime free, huh?) practiced religiously with an airsoft pistol. He came to the United States and from what I understand, borrowed a real gun and competed in the Bianca cup steel challenge. He WON, beating out all of the top world class shooters. I carry a Sig 229 R DAK everyday and want a clone for practice and training. After Christmas I took my Christmas money and went to a local airsoft shop. I felt very old there since I had at least a decade on everyone at the shop. I bought an airsoft clone of a Sig 229 R (they don’t make a DAK model). My impressions of the gun is UNBELIVEABLE! The gun functions, feels, and looks just like a Sig 229 R. The slide cycles after each shot and even locks back after the magazine is empty. The trigger pull is just okay. The slide does not have as much tension as my real 229 so when I holster it it has a tendency to have the slide to go out of battery. My M3 TAC light is one of the originals and doesn’t fit on very well, but the newer ones that go on like a claw fit well. The only real thing that sets it apart is that the barrel sticks out a little more from the slide and is painted a bright orange. As a side note I wish this thing was a totally different color since this thing looks real and if someone pointed this thing at me I would not hesitate to shoot them. I handed this gun to every officer that I showed it to with the slide locked back, grip towards them with the orange band covered. As soon as I handed off the gun the look on their face was fun to watch when they realized there was a bright orange barrel sticking out. Everyone believed this to be real till they saw the orange band and some still questioned that it wasn’t a real gun. Back in my older days when I was on a TAC team I put hundreds of rounds thru my gun monthly. Now it seems like I never have the time or energy to pack everything up and go to the range. Now with this airsoft that will change. I have set a range up in my basement. I took a refrigerator box and cut a hole in it smaller then the targets I use. Inside I draped a towel across the middle. On the top front I put some binder clips where I can change out targets quickly. The BB easily goes thru the target enters the refrigerator box thru the cut out hole, hits the towel, and drops to the bottom of the box where I can easily collect them and reuse them. I can now practice drawing and firing, shooting on the move, from around cover, and from different angles ALL FROM INSIDE MY HOUSE. I can reuse the BBs so the only thing I have to replenish is the gas, which I am told will last about 3,000 shots for just $10. Filling the gun with gas is just like refilling a butane lighter. My next step is going to use it for force on force training. I have taken shots with a heavy hoodie on and when I was hit I knew I had been hit but there was absolutely no pain. I then took a shot in the arm with a light shirt on and it stung but not as bad as being hit with a paintball. As a firearms instructor this thing will be awesome. I plan on teaching my son how to shoot a pistol with it. My next purchase will be an airsoft AR-15. I have plenty of more to say, but this is already seriously too long. So if anyone cares to know more I will post more. This by no way replaces throwing lead down range, but it will definitely help. |
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I used to laugh at it. I ended up buying a Lower level gun of a G36 for shits and grins and realized the potential. My kids and I play airsoft in the yard and its a great way to teach them basic tactics etc and have fun while doing it. I have been using it as a way for cheap indoor target practice w/ ammo costs being what they are |
Yeah no kidding! You know, this is probably the best description of how airsoft equipment can be used in a 'practical' sort of way that I've ever read or heard. I think most of the Airsoft hatred (mine anyway) comes from being put off because of the mentality of some of the more serious airsofters who think they are like Navy Seals and take themselves WAY too seriously, when really it's just a game. If you think you are Chuck Norris Delta Force dude, and spending thousands on airsoft toys, making a science from stuffing empty MOLLE pouches with rags, you might be a lamer... But in the spirit described above it sure doesnt sound all that lame to me. |
| The main problem that I find with them is that there is no recoil, so if you want to compete and be in with a chance, you have to find some other way to practice, so that you are used to the recoil of a real weapon. Because of the restrictions in England, I have to go to Northern Ireland or France if I want to shoot the real thing (handgun-wise). I agree that they are a good way to start, but as soon as you thing a new shooter can cope with the real thing, I would give them to them. |
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One thing you should note before your next purchase is that most airsoft rifles including AR15s as you mentioned are electric and do not have bolt movement, bolt lock back, or any need to manipulate the bolt catch or charging handle when firing/reloading. So it's not quite the same as the experience with the gas powered pistols. Don't reuse the BBs is right. Stick to good quality .20g or heavier ones, too. KSC, Tokyo Marui, Airsoft Elite, Excel, and some others are all good bets. You can buy an adapter piece, plastic or metal, for about $15-$20 which screws on to a ~$3 disposable propane tank so you can use that instead of the $10 gas. Propane is the same stuff as 'Green Gas', although green gas has some silicone lubricant and scent added. If you got the Tanaka P229, stick with the HFC134A gas, but the KJW P229 can take propane. |
| I am by no means a high school or college kid wanting to play war in the woods. I am a law enforcement officer in my mid thirties with a never ending thirst for knowledge and a desire to better myself. I see airsoft as a tool to better myself. I agree that this does not replace a real gun and throwing real lead down range, but it is a tool to help me do it better. The gun I have uses green gas and the slide cycles after each shot, now it isn’t true recoil, but enough to move your sights off target. |
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Here's my "collection" of "firearms" http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5271/airsofthm8.jpg Remington 870 26" on top for comparison of size. The mp5 is a spring gun, and is amazingly accurate for 30 bucks. Also came with a silencer that just extends the barrel making it more accurate. Well worth the money. The bottom is a high end Tokyo Mauri electric gun. Battery is held in the stock. It's accurate, comes in semi or full auto. |
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Airsoft is a great way to introduce kids into firearms. Get a good gun and it is a great way to keep your skills sharp for a fraction of the cost of shooting real lead. I don't do either. I do, however, love to shoot around my friends basement. Nothing beats playing 'airsoft uncle' with no shirts on, close quarters in a basement. 
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With the $ you spent on that AEG, they didn't give you a non-orange flash hider? Did you buy it here in the US? -Mark |
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i had a hi-cap 1911 blowback pistol sent to me in iraq. damn near everyone in the company had some airsoft weapon. huge engagements, everything from room-clearing, cordon & searches, to rooftop all-out shooting matches. the best was taking the TOC from the HQ section. CO barricaded the door with a couch. good times and good training. looked into getting into an airsoft group when i came back, it was just a bunch of pretentious pussies. havent touched an airsoft gun since i sold mine to the customs guy in kuwait. |
I use airsoft for force-on-force training and have done so with local PDs. I also use them to compare to quality .22 silencers. A good suppressed rig is quieter than my airsoft guns.  Other reason I use them is to introduce my young nephew to firearm safety. Works very well in that regard. Mark |
I wasn't being butt hurt about it. I actually laughed when I read ur reply. Just pointing it out. I guarantee 70% of the people that enter this thread skip the article the OP wrote and go right to the last replies written. Didn't want it to turn into a flame fest on a newcomer because they didn't know what he was saying, that's all. |
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Having little choice over here quite a few ex-full bore pistol shooters now shoot practical pistol courses of fire (IPSC style) with quality gbb pistols. Obviously the ranges are reduced but it also means that it is far easier to find somewhere to set up stages. All other equipment and functionality is the same (except you don't want to dump your heavy expensive mags onto a hard floor). Some use them as a training aid and have clone pistols of the real item they can use when they shoot abroad. Incidentally there is a World Class Japanese IPSC shooter who practices at home, totally with an airsoft clone. Of course it's not the same but there are few other options. I would agree it's a good way to start the kids out, and my eleven year old just had one for Christmas and shows promise already. Great way to teach safety as well. I have considered them for force on force training but they would only be 'pool guns' and wouldn't stand up to the abuse of training, particularly by those not actually interested in shooting, or training come to that. |
TOTALLY agree with you there. I used to do play airsoft quite often, but got sick of all the people who thought they were the people they imitated, and treated a game of airsoft like a photo shoot or a military fanclub convention. There was one skinhead guy I knew who had a German nazi-themed team. THEY were scary. |
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I bought a $ 100 glock airsoft, haven't messed with it yet but it seems like a good way to practice drawing and shooting at close range in the cellar. I suspect you can use them for force on force, can't be worse than those shitty simunitions glocks. I would guess most of the GD airsoft snivelers have never done any of that stuff anyway. |
Force on force? What, like, shoot at eachother? |
Sssh. That's so not tactical. |
lmao I was serious, I wasn't sure what FoF ment.  If that is what it means, which after thinking about it I think so, then yes, you can. Just make sure you have some kind of eye protection. No shirts makes it more interesting. 
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Airsoft is starting to make more of a attempt to get into the professional training world. Take for example Systema, they are a company from Japan that is making M4 type carbines that are proportioned weight wise the same as an actual M4. They are very similar in their disassembly process as well. Not to mention Armalite( I think) came out with their own Airsoft rifle. Here's a link to the Systema's: http://www.airsoftextreme.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=364_525 You can click and view pics on how the dissemble, you can see the piston system is very similar to the way the bolt assembly removes from a AR-15. |
Correct edit they can't be worse than simuntions you need a carhart to avoid bruises and they'll leave burns if they go up the sleeve |
I have never done any real world scenario/training like that using airsoft. I did quickly learn the proper way to look around a corner after catching 10+ pellets to the genitals in a deathmatch in my friends basement though... I would assume airsoft would work great for any kind of indoor scenario/training. It would get a bit iffy outdoors. The range on airsoft guns isn't all that great. edit: as you said in your edit, airsoft hurts enough to let you know you have been hit(if you aren't wearing a bunch of layers like a nancyboy) but it isn't going to leave any serious wounds. |
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Sig Sauer sells airsoft now. Sig Airsoft Sig sells the same gun I got for $299. I paid $109. Mine just dosen't say Sig. |
Yeah, I bought it from a California based store. I didn't mind it to be honest, cause my friends airsoft in the middle of the day and the last thing I want is for a cop to drive by the field we played at and go Rambo on my ass. |
Ahh, that would explain it. Most of the HK-based retailers will install a cheap orange plastic FH and include the actual metal FH in the box for you to reinstall. I can see leaving the orange FH in place if you were playing around in a public place. -Mark |
I've heard airsoft guns break if you start wrestling over them, that's an advatage with simution guns, they're basically glocks |
I wouldn't know but some of the high quality ones seem rather sturdy. Not nearly as sturdy as the real thing though so I can see that becoming an issue. |
Holy shit $1500
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Sig just sells KJW GBBs and TM AEGs. Its the same thing you got. |
If you don't mind, where'd you find it? I kind of want one of the decent G17 style airsoft guns to practice close quarters draw/fire (aka shooting my girlfriend in the ass) |
Various propane adapters: www.airsoftgi.com/index.php?cPath=27_48 Airsoft Innovations duster adapter and Madbull propane adapter: www.airsoftatlanta.com/ammo.htm Works with the small disposable tanks like the Bernzomatic propane tanks. You just turn the tank over and fill it like with Green Gas. |
The orange muzzle etc. is a bit of a waste of space. The idea is nice but it just doesn't work. Criminals on your side of the pond started painting their real guns orange to try and confuse the police and/or make them hesitate. Didn't work for long. Take a look around this board. There are plenty of pretty pink guns around, rifles and handguns. In a similar vein over here, many airsoft guns now have to be a bright colour. Well sorry boys but if someone points a pretty 'gun' at me, they still stand the same chance of getting shot. |
www.airsoftatlanta.com/gas.htm |
The top end airsoft guns will perform adequately for close range functionality training, prcatice draw, point shooting etc., but they will not stand up to much rough handling. |
I agree. I tossed the silly orange plastic FH that came on my TM SR-16 in the trash about five minutes after I took it out of the box - which is about as long as it took for me to find the right size allen key and put the metal black one back on. I've actually got a faux QD silencer on mine now, anyway. -Mark |
I have the plastic one. I'd recommend the aluminum one instead. The plastic isn't holding up very well to repeated use. Or maybe I'm being hamfisted, who knows.
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