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Posted: 10/22/2001 5:41:04 AM EDT
Tell me this won't start some deportations! [url]www.lonsberry.com/writings.cfm?story=753&go=4[/url]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 5:53:20 AM EDT
Seriously? I doubt it! No one at the INS seems to even know what occurred on Sept. 11, 2001! My ancestry is German. My grandfather fought against Germans in WWI. His younger brother fought against Germans in WWII. Once the Huns came to America, they ceased being Germans, or even 'German-Americans.' They became simply 'Americans.' Eric The(AndTheyWeren't'LutheranTerrorists'Either!­)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:07:57 AM EDT
This is so logical and right that it will be completely ignored!! The PC crowd are firmly in control and will not hear of it!
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:21:36 AM EDT
Look at the 22 people on the new list of most-wanted terrorists. They are all Arab Muslims.
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Wrong. One is a native (not aboriginal) American and at least two are Kenyans. Mr. Lonsberry doesn't seem to understand that the people of Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan are [b]not[/b] Arabs.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 6:16:05 PM EDT
While they may not be Arabs, they are moslems. Arabs per se are not our enemies. MOSLEMS are our enemies no matter what race or country they are from. As much as the government is trying to make it look like we are not at war with islam, do not be misled! Before this mess is over we will fight them in many countries - or we will lose.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:45:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 9:41:30 PM EDT by 71-Hour_Achmed]
Lonsberry apparently doesn't have the guts of a Richard Butler or David Duke. I guess that makes him a "lite" version, like these guys: [img]http://www.loganact.com/images/smiley2.JPG[/img] Or, as Lady Macbeth said, "look ... like th' innocent flower, but be the serpent under 't."
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 2:03:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: While they may not be Arabs, they are moslems. Arabs per se are not our enemies. MOSLEMS are our enemies no matter what race or country they are from. As much as the government is trying to make it look like we are not at war with islam, do not be misled! Before this mess is over we will fight them in many countries - or we will lose.
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Care to tell me this face to face? So you are saying that a white anglo Americans who believe in Islam is enemy of the US?? get your fact straight! Oh BTW I am Taiwanese, im Muslim too, but since when did Taiwan ever did anything against the US?
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 7:31:21 PM EDT
Fair enough, I will respond to your comments rahimiv. To begin, I bear no animosity toward Chinese (I have some good Chinese friends as a matter of fact). Same for Taiwanese. The US has provided much support to Taiwan including helping with it's defense. The US defeated the Japanese and run their ass out of China after the horrors they committed there. I suspect there are elderly Chinese who still feel goodwill toward America because of those acts. I was born after Pearl (which killed HALF as many as the VERMIN did 9/11) so I bear no animosity toward Japan. They started a war with US and got a couple high tech eggs in return. War over. My feelings are not based on race. Now, the fact you are moslem is a problem for me. Those that attacked the US are moslem. Those who heckle Israel with terror are moslem. Most of the acts of terror around the world come from moslems. Why WOULDN'T I dislike them? I have read other post by you that appears sympathetic toward the VERMIN that declared war on US. If that IS your feeling then my opinions against all moslems stands. HOWEVER, you are welcome to convince me otherwise and I will try to set aside my prejudices and give you a fair hearing. Please convince me that you are 100% behind bringing an end to moslem terrorism, the killing of innocent civilians, the mailing of bio weapons, blowing up of embassies in multiple countries, attempted destruction of a ship in port with the permission of the host country. All the acts of terror that moslems have perpetrated against the people of the US. Kindly explain how we are the bad guys when we rescued moslem Kuwait from the "Butcher of Bagdad" - another moslem country. Peacekeeping in the Balkans which continues to this day that defends moslems against those they have terrorized. Why we are evil for providing more aid to Afganistan than ANY OTHER COUNTRY HAS! We keep help them drive Russia out of their country, we keep them from starving and they repay us with murder and terror. In light of the almost universal moslem condemnation of our operations against the country that sponsered the mass murders on our soil, please explain why I should not consider all moslems my enemy? You have my attention, please explain.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 7:49:45 PM EDT
Jeezz, you guys are dumb. Islam worships the God of Abriham just like Chirtans and Jews. You guys probally want to round them up and put them in camps. "For their own protection". And you wonder why the world hates us. Mickey, what will you do if your 1973 Gremlin has a wreck and you have to get medical help from a Arab doctor??? What if you need to need a cop and he's a Moslem. There's a lot of Mid-Easteners in SE Mich and for the most part they work their asses off. When the war is over. We need to make sure that the new order of things in done in a right and just way.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 7:55:42 PM EDT
Big John I won't call you dumb, just naive.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 7:56:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2001 7:57:56 PM EDT by MickeyMouse]
Big John - I avoid them as much as possible. However, if they behave toward me with respect and are not the VERMIN that celebrated the WTC, I will treat them with respect. Those who celebrated are disloyal and SHOULD be in camps, prior to deportation. Those who display proper outrage at the attacks are far less suspect but they seem few. MAny moslems in America send money to charities that support BL and his thugs. Those are enemy spies, a fifth column, right here among us. They should be treated as such. Don't remember where I said that ALL Jews and Christians are without fault. They have not cheered murdering vermin, however. See a difference? I could care less why we are hated. We are the most generous nation on earth, feeding untold millions, providing medical care to those who need it while failing to provide it adequately to our own citizens at times. We spend HUGE sums of money (from a defecit) to help people that repay us with hate, murder, terror, insults and more. It is time that we stop being so darn good hearted to people that will never achieve civilization, that want to remain 1500 years in the past, living in ignorance and squalor. It is time we be FEARED!
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 8:18:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2001 8:14:00 PM EDT by AR15FENCER]
I'll chime in here... I'm fairly 'average' as the American goes. I bear no prejudice or ill will to anyone, regardless of race or religion. How I feel about Muslims, and any foreigner coming to America is like this: They come to America to be free, to pursue careers, and embrace the American Way, that's all great, that's what America is all about. We are all free to practice our beliefs, as long as we leave each other in peace to do so. Welcome to the USA. For those that come to America to take advantage of our freedoms, yet hate this country because of those freedoms, and the differences in religions. To people like that, they can get the heck out. Same goes for all the PC whiners that don't realize that freedom isn't free, and that the tree of liberty must at times be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants. God bless America and may God, or Allah, bless it's peace loving AMERICANS!!
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 8:30:10 PM EDT
May I try to clarify? Arabs are not our enemies, Muslims are not our enemies, the only enemies we have are people who consider us their enemy (i.e. terrorists, their supporters or other violent anti-american groups). It is pretty strait forward. P.S. Iranians and Afghans are arabs, Pakistanis could consider themselves Arabs or possibly Indians (remember Pakistan was at one point part of India).
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 9:07:43 PM EDT
HighCaliber, Iranians are not Arabs they are Persian and their language is Farsi. In fact Iranians do not like Arabs and Arabs do not like Iranians. While I was attending Electronics school in Mass there was a big fight between some Arab students, they were throwing computers all over the class room. It happened because one Arab called another Arab the worst thing he could, a dirty Iranian. By the way my best friend is Iranian and he does not like Arabs.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 9:19:21 PM EDT
I do Not hate any religion or country! I Posted this as a REF to others attitudes!BTW I somewhat agree! If any of Mr. Looneys sugestions are true, and the [b]Muslims[/b] of america knew(not the arabs , iranians or what ever) this may cause a hatered that the muslims have never seen before...pat
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 9:42:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HighCaliber: P.S. Iranians and Afghans are arabs, Pakistanis could consider themselves Arabs or possibly Indians (remember Pakistan was at one point part of India).
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Pakistanis aren't even remotely Arab. Last I heard, Indians (and presumably Pakistanis) were considered to be of caucasian derivation. Yes, their skin color is dark, but look at a swarthy Italian some time. . . . And as Sniper_762x51 pointed out, Iranians (and Afghanis) are not Arabs either -- in fact, the name "Iran" is derived from the same root as "aryan".
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 10:17:56 PM EDT
Here is something to think about, Islam and Muslim is not synonymous and we should not confuse the two. Lets just except for the purpose of this post that Islam is a peaceful religion as peaceful as Christianity. So I can state that Islam is not our enemy and I bare no ill will toward Islam. Now lets take the present situation, all the terrorists have one thing in common they are followers of Islam and are Muslims. Ok, now add to this the fact there seems to be a large number of other Muslims including those who are living in the United States who support what these terrorists have done. I have read many reports of Muslims in the United States who are taking the side of the terrorists or at the least are taking the side of the Muslims against the United States. This can not be permitted to continue, especially in a time of war, everyone who lives in the United States has to be loyal to this country and not be loyal to the country or entity we are at war with or return to their own country, this is a necessity for our security. And if the people who are not loyal to our country happen to be citizens, then they should be rounded up and charged with treason. So it is not Islam itself that is the enemy but a large number of the followers of Islam who are the true enemy. Just as Christianity itself is not responsible for the Crusades and the Inquisition but it is some of the followers of Christianity who were responsible for those horrors. We need to separate the religion from those practitioners who use religion to justify their actions, but how can that be accomplished. What is needed is for the Muslims who are true Americans to help purge their communities of all their fellow Muslims who are a danger to the United States. But I fear this will never happen. One other thing that we do not have enough data about is just what percentage of the 6,000,000 Muslims living here give their allegiance to the other Muslims in the world instead of to the country in which they live, and how many of these disloyal Muslims are willing to go as far as to commit acts of sabotage and terrorism in the name of Allah. We need to think about this, what if there is a group of people 10, 20, 50, or even 100 people and I am told with 100 percent certainty that one of these people is going to murder my family but no one knows which person is going to commit the murder. Now I am given a choice and that is to let everyone go free and know that my family will be murdered in a short while, or I have another choice and that is to kill everyone and that way I know my family will be safe but 99 innocent people will have to die just to get the one murderer. So what should I do and what should anyone do in this purely hypothetical situation. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From the Providence Sunday Journal page A11 and The Associated Press. Most Islamic-school students in U.S. side with Muslims. If this is true, then this is really a war between the United States and most of Islam, including the ones living in the United States. Sorry I can not post a link but the article is only in the print version of the paper. VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 10:25:07 PM EDT
What cracks me up is how stupid some Americans are. This happened in Orange County, California. Indian Sikh guy was selling icecream and some dumb idiot threated the guy calling him a terrorist. Too bad this idiot didn't know the guy wearing a turban was not a muslim, and definitely not a terrorist. Another guy stalked a Pakistani lady at a grocery store. A guy at a 7-11 got killed because he looked middleeastern. Enough is enough. As for the resentment towards the muslims, if you gather group of people, you will always end up with an odd ball, blacksheep, loser,outcast or whatever you call it. Its kinda unfortunate minority can bring down the reputation of majority. Majority of muslims don't approve of what Osama is doing. I wish people start directing the hatred towards Osama and leave others alone.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 10:31:31 PM EDT
Oh btw, there is a bounty out for Osama's head - now $7 million! Good news for you "have gun will travel" folks :P
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 11:33:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HighCaliber: P.S. Iranians and Afghans are arabs, Pakistanis could consider themselves Arabs or possibly Indians (remember Pakistan was at one point part of India).
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Iranians are Persian, not Arabic.
Link Posted: 10/23/2001 11:58:32 PM EDT
There are quite a few Muslims in the Bay Area where I live. I've been following what their leaders and the people in the street have been saying about the attack since 9/11 and in all honesty I do not see the level of outrage one would expect from American citizens. They condemn the attacks, state that Islam is a peaceful religion, but then throw in something like it was "understandable" and we should not bomb the nations that support terrorism. I don't think you'll find many non-Muslims with opinions such as that. And of course, there is major condemnation coming out of Singapore and Indonesia regarding our decision to bomb. You have to ask yourself why the hell would people in Singapore and Indonesia give a crap about what we do in Afghanistan? It seems to be okay for Indonesia to kill Christians at will, but if we attack the nation that harbors the terrorists who killed 6,000 of our people we are racist and anti-Muslim. There is a sea of hypocracy here and at this point, I have lost a lot of respect for Muslims in general.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 12:05:41 AM EDT
The thing that concerns me about this, again, is that we continue to learn that more and more people in their community knew about the planned attack. Even schoolchildren. I mean, we took these people in... and they repay that kindness in a most shocking way. There is too much of a focus on being tolerant. Tolerate the tolerant. The intolerant among them should be deported posthaste.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 12:20:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: And of course, there is major condemnation coming out of Singapore and Indonesia regarding our decision to bomb. You have to ask yourself why the hell would people in Singapore and Indonesia give a crap about what we do in Afghanistan? It seems to be okay for Indonesia to kill Christians at will, but if we attack the nation that harbors the terrorists who killed 6,000 of our people we are racist and anti-Muslim.
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Are you sure it's not Malaysia and Indonesia? I wouldn't think that Singapore would do that (even with a significant muslim population and being sandwiched between the two above mentioned states).
There is a sea of hypocracy here and at this point, I have lost a lot of respect for Muslims in general.
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Dude, I think that there is just a sea of hypocrisy out there vis a vis the US in general. So many double standards I wouldn't even know where to begin. My favorite is how a few years back when there was talk of putting the army in charge of the Mexican border. The mexicans screamed bloody murder about the proposal, and how wrong it would be, friendly nations should not treat one another that way, uncivilized, etc. Menwhile they had been DOING the same thing we were only then coming around to consider: using the Mexican army to police their southern border and keep out illegals from Central America. And the beat goes on...
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 12:24:20 AM EDT
No matter who they are or where they are from if they are radicals, and extremists, they gotta go! But don't send 'em here, we got our hands full! 1feral1 Sydney
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 2:36:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: While they may not be Arabs, they are moslems. Arabs per se are not our enemies. MOSLEMS are our enemies no matter what race or country they are from. As much as the government is trying to make it look like we are not at war with islam, do not be misled! Before this mess is over we will fight them in many countries - or we will lose.
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Dude - you might be able to make your point better if you'd learn to spell "Muslim". I'd still disagree though.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 3:15:22 AM EDT
shooter69, you are correct. I meant Malaysia. They wouldn't do that in Singapore because their govt. would cane them to death. :)
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 3:18:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2001 3:14:08 AM EDT by MickeyMouse]
Gus, I damn good and well know how they spell it and when capitalization is supposed to be used. I spell it the old way as an insult to the vermin just as I feel they are not entitled to a capital!! They are VERMIN as in cockroaches, worthless, diseased trash to be exterminated!
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 3:31:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: Gus, I damn good and well know how they spell it and when capitalization is supposed to be used. I spell it the old way as an insult to the vermin just as I feel they are not entitled to a capital!! They are VERMIN as in cockroaches, worthless, diseased trash to be exterminated!
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Don't worry Mouse. People's emotions are sure to change big time after the [b]next[/b] attack on the US soil.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 7:28:24 AM EDT
I think we are confusing loyalty to a country versus a religion. Followers of Islam typically don't see national loyalty as being more important than religous loyalty. Kinda like the Kuwaiti's now condemning the US bombing of a Muslim nation. They were OK with it back in '90-91 when ole Saddamm exported all thier stuff to Iraq. Islamic extremist are all over the place; Phillipines, S. America, the US. Before 9/11 I was all PO'ed abt the way too many US citizens consider themselves African-American, Irish-American, Latino, Arab-American, Native-American, etc. I always felt you are American (meaning you are a US citizen loyal to your country) or you belong to another nationality. Where you came from doesn't matter once you become an American citizen, either by birth or by raising the right hand. Black, white, red, green or purple, what's the difference? I think race should be taken off all forms of ID. You are a loyal American, or you are not. If you are not, then please move to someplace where you fell you can be loyal. It's hypocritical to condemn the country that educated you, gives you a good living, provides security for your children, etc. Anyone who falls into this category should not be surprised that they are not well thought of. Islamic nations are not known for tolerance, be it political, religous, or anything else. Funny how thier tune changes when they are in the US. We are horrified at the thought of a religous war, but hasn't that already been declared by most of the Muslim religious leaders in the middle east? They have declared a religous war on a political entity. We declare a war on terrorist, many of whom happen to be Muslim, so what have we really declared war on? The world is full of double standards. Why Muslims in America are surprised at it amazes me.....
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:09:35 AM EDT
It is not Muslims, it is scum like Bin Laden. According to the Koran, you must nor kill innocents, also you are not permitted to start a jihad against the 'People of the Book' Re; The Christians and Jews. So he has violated the tennents of Islam. Just because he hide sbehind Islam, does not mean he is a Muslim in his heart. He is just a twisted hateful person.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:27:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2001 9:22:56 AM EDT by ISMO]
No doubt OBL & company have perverted Islam for thier own benefit. The problem is that it's creating this whole us/them, There Can Be Only One, rally cry for millions of Muslims. Many Muslims in the US are not surprised at the hatred towards the US because they have real world knowledge as to what people feel over in the Middle East. OBL is merely using it to get in power over there. Question: If the US pulled out of the Middle East completely & let OBL and his cronies run things, what would the region look like in 5-10 yrs? I think it would be a lot more like Afghanistan today, than paradise. How many universities would there be? Where would Dr's get educated? What would the starvation & mortality rates look like? I don't say there is a thing wrong with Islam as a religion, I just wonder why it thrives more in the poorer, poverty striken regions than in areas of higher learning? How did Islam slip from one of the most advanced cultures of 1-2k yrs ago to what it is today? More a search for understanding on my part than a criticism. I am really trying to research & understand. I think that's the only way to get to a real solution to all this mess....
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 12:37:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MickeyMouse: Gus, I damn good and well know how they spell it and when capitalization is supposed to be used. I spell it the old way as an insult to the vermin just as I feel they are not entitled to a capital!! They are VERMIN as in cockroaches, worthless, diseased trash to be exterminated!
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Cool by me! I didn't realize you meant to do it, kinda like Bush Sr's way of saying "Sadam". I still don't think (and I hope I'm right) that this will become a true religious war. If it does though, count me on America's side!
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 2:04:20 PM EDT
My question is what percentage of Muslim immigrants would fight and or die for this great country? how many of them ? not to many I'm sure,,they want to take but not give,,sorry to the extremely small percentage that would,,then again those that would could be put to great use.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 7:00:28 PM EDT
Gus, thank you! IronMike, your opinion on the subject is more correct than my own. As much as I am down on islam, there are no doubt a few good ones that reject what the VERMIN like that pig BL support. I hope those few survive and spread reason among those around them. We DO have freedom of religion here, unlike most other countries, islamic ones in particular. Mine is not an attempt to restrict their freedom of religion as much as it is a desire for those who come here to be loyal to their new home - or leave.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 7:57:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IronMike: My question is what percentage of Muslim immigrants would fight and or die for this great country? how many of them ? not to many I'm sure,,they want to take but not give,,sorry to the extremely small percentage that would,,then again those that would could be put to great use.
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Do you have any basis for saying this, or it is just what you feel? I'm not saying that I have knowledge that is any better than yours, I just wonder at how sure you seem. How many red blooded Americans have signed up to fight since Sept. 11?
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 8:19:53 PM EDT
Thank you for correcting me, my mistake. [beer]
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 10:01:38 PM EDT
I'm in contact with Muslim immigrants nearly everyday and work with many,,I ask them,,I then tell them how I feel,,and yes Allah Akbar!
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 10:03:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IronMike: I'm in contact with Muslim immigrants nearly everyday and work with many,,I ask them,,I then tell them how I feel,,and yes Allah Akbar! The loyalty of Americans who choose not to fight is not a fear of mine,,my fear is that we as the romans did have let the "Barbarians" in.
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Link Posted: 10/24/2001 10:18:38 PM EDT
I have 2 iranian friends, both of which I would trust with my life.Sanity-Zakker, and Bayat are their names. And they have both pledged their services to the united states in a time of war. I am sure many Islamic immigrants would also. I am just appalled that some knew of what was to take place on the sep 11 and did not try to help.( if this is true) I dont want this to become a racist or anti religon thread just an interesting line of thought...pat
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 10:56:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2001 10:51:42 PM EDT by IronMike]
Well, we are at war, what are they doing?
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 11:05:54 PM EDT
Both of my friends grew up in iran under the Shaw's rule. Both of them became Airplane mechs in iran and later hired by usair. Both of them spend their weekends translating for the fbi now that war has started...pat
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 11:29:57 PM EDT
I just want to state my observations. My Dad is a very prominent doctor and my mother an ICU/ER nurse (no they did not meet on the job, but were high-school sweethearts). They are loveing people and have never imparted any racist ideas on my or my siblings. I worked in the two of the three hospitals in our city, and saw the money-hungry attitudes of the Arab doctors. They were here merely to make a buck with no reguard to the lives they were supposedly trying to save. I asked my Dad about some of these doctors. He hated them with a passion! With the exception of one Pakistani surgeon, who is the best in our town and a devout Muslim, I saw only greed and carelessness toward others from those who were of Arab and Indian origin. This one Pakistani doctor I would trust the life of my wife and any others who I loved. I know that he is 100% American. It is unfortunate that the rest of the Islamic community has failed to express their love for the good ole USA to the extent that the rest of us have. It is for this reason that I will try to judge each mid-eastern person on a case by case basis. I hate that this is the way it is, I truely do. It pains my heart. Any sp and gramatical errors are not my fault. hehe
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