Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 10/21/2001 5:33:36 PM EDT
This is running a very fine red line, but here goes: I am planning on buying some sort of AR-15, M4, Or M16 Type Rifle. I want to (later in time), add a sound suppressor. I'd also like to have it full auto... First question, is this rifle legal, without a Class III permit: http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa2x14m4my.asp If it is legal, isn't that a post-ban? Could i later install a sound suppressor, or flash suppressor? If I get all the necessary paperwork, (Class III permit), could I just put in a full auto sear, and thread the barrel? How much $$$ are we talking here? Or, am I just better of to go with an H&K or an M4A1???
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 5:54:30 PM EDT
Generally you need barrel threads to mount a suppressor, so at the very least you're talking pre-ban semi. Besides, ATF is now ruling that a sound suppressor is also a flash suppressor. So, no, you couldn't do this on that post-ban Bushmaster. Indiana is a good Title II state, so my advice is find a local machine gun dealer and ask him what he has and how much it will cost you.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 6:03:46 PM EDT
ok i'll bite. If you want a f/a M16, look in shotgun news, or some of the online sales boards. be prepared to spend $3500+ for an M16. M16's are not Preban or postban, they are not affected by the crime bill. If it's legal in your state, you can put a suppressor on any rifle, preban or post ban. your post ban barrel cannot have threads that a flash supressor can fit onto. Unless you are a LEO, you can't buy a new M16, only a grandfathered machinegun is available to you. THere is no such thing as a class III permit. Machine guns are legal in some states. Then you buy a machine gun and pay for a tax stamp. To get the stamp, the BATF makes you jump through a few hoops, and takes $200 from you. So unless you have a license to MAKE machineguns there is no federal "permit" for them. You either have a tax stamp to own a PARTICULAR gun or you don't. .02----> buy an AR15, have fun. If you love it, and can afford it, buy an M16. Have faster fun.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:03:22 PM EDT
photog, what's an LEO? If I jump through all the hoops, pay the ATF Tax, is it possible for me to own a NEW machine gun, such as an M60, M16, M4A1, MP5-N w/ suppressor? Is it me, or is the ATF wanting all Americans to shoot friggen BB guns in their free time? Jeez!
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:09:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:53:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GuitarSlinger66: photog, what's an LEO? If I jump through all the hoops, pay the ATF Tax, is it possible for me to own a NEW machine gun, such as an M60, M16, M4A1, MP5-N w/ suppressor? Is it me, or is the ATF wanting all Americans to shoot friggen BB guns in their free time? Jeez!
View Quote
LEO = Law Enforcement Officer If you jump through all the hoops... you can and can't own a new Maching Gun. If you purchase a RDIAS you can put it into a new rifle. If you get a Registered Receiver...it is obviously now new. You can't purchase a new production M16, M60 or whatever unless you are a Law Enforcement Department or have a Class 3. You can purchase any MG Registered (before MG ban) that you would like (after doing the paperwork). However be prepared to spend about $2500 for a Registered Lighting Link, $4000-$5000 for a Registered Drop in Auto Sear and $5000 up for a Registered Receiver (these are all for the AR-15 / M16 series rifle) If you state allows a suppressor, then you can have one...provided you do all the paperwork. OH!...and about BB guns....people are already complaining about them...so...maybe? If anyone notices that anything I have posted is wrong...PLEASE correct me...I don't claim to know it all...thanks medcop
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 8:56:46 PM EDT
If you are serious about going C3 go here and read: [url]http://www.subguns.com/laws/iif1.htm[/url] Sure it's a lot of reading but it should answer any of your questions in that area.
If I jump through all the hoops, pay the ATF Tax, is it possible for me to own a NEW machine gun, such as an M60, M16, M4A1, MP5-N w/ suppressor?
View Quote
In a nutshell, any MG you could buy would have to have been registered before 1986, so no, you can not buy a 'NEW' m60, m16, mp5-n, etc. So just because you fill out the forms, pay the tax, etc., does not mean you can order a brand new MP5 for the LE cost of $1200. Instead you have to buy an HK94 converted into an MP5 for around $7000. Again, read the link, it's worth it.
Link Posted: 10/21/2001 10:54:47 PM EDT
Photog a sound suppressor is the most effective flash suppressor there is so you can not mount one on a post 94 rifle without creating a post ban LEO SAW
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 3:39:48 AM EDT
So, I could NOT buy this gun: http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa2x14m4my.asp and put a silencer on that baby, even with a Class III form? What about the stock, can I mod it to make it collapsable?
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 1:34:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GuitarSlinger66: So, I could NOT buy this gun: http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/pcwa2x14m4my.asp and put a silencer on that baby, even with a Class III form? What about the stock, can I mod it to make it collapsable?
View Quote
You cannot legally put a suppressor on any AR15 made after Sept 13,1994 unless it is an integral suppressor. You cannot legally put a collapsable stock on any AR15 made after Sept 13,1994. Having a registered suppressor has nothing to do with the assault weapon ban. Michael
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 1:40:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 1:54:16 PM EDT
A removable suppressor usually requires a threaded barrel. Having a threaded barrel is against the '94 law. Now, some companies like gemtech, make locking lugs to permenantly attach to the end of the barrel for use with one of their removable suppressors(actually better than threads cause its very quick to attach). This would not violate the '94 bill. Now, integrated suppressor uppers are usually short, requiring two taxes. One for owning a suppressor(requires registering the upper), and one for a SBR(Short barreled rifle) which requires registering the lower. None of the above is affected by the '86 bill, meaning you can do it all to a new rifle.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 1:55:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut: Ponyboy, what difference does it make if the suppressor is integral or not. A suppressor does the same thing whether or not it comes off.[uzi]
View Quote
According to letters from the BATF a flash hider is defined as a muzzle attachment, whether removable or permanently attached, that by either design or through a byproduct of the design, diminishes the visible flash which occurs at the muzzle of a firearm as the bullet leaves the barrel. Since an integral suppressor is not a muzzle attachment, it does not fit the definition of flash suppressor as provided by the BATF. Hopefully this crap will go away in a couple of years anyways and we won't need to worry about silly shit like this. Michael
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 3:16:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: According to letters from the BATF a flash hider is defined as a muzzle attachment, whether removable or permanently attached, that by either design or through a byproduct of the design, diminishes the visible flash which occurs at the muzzle of a firearm as the bullet leaves the barrel. Since an integral suppressor is not a muzzle attachment, it does not fit the definition of flash suppressor as provided by the BATF.
View Quote
Not true, see this from Bardwells letters:
A flash suppressor is a device which diminishes the visible flash which occurs at the muzzle of a firearm as the bullet leaves the barrel. While certain devices are exclusively designed as flash suppressors, many other muzzle attachments are designed to perform multiple functions such as a combination flash suppressor and grenade launcher, or a combination flash suppressor and muzzle break. Any such combination devices which function as a flash suppressor would qualify as a flash suppressor for purposes of section 921(a)(30)(B)(iv). A firearm silencer or muffler would also function as an effective flash suppressor; therefore, a semiautomatic rifle, such as an AR- 15, having a silencer or muffler and a pistol grip would qualify as a semiautomatic assault weapon as that term is defined in section 921(a)(30)(B).
View Quote
So as you can see, it makes not difference whether the attachment of the suppressor is permanent or not, it is still a flash hider and thus and evil feature. From another letter:
A firearm having a muzzle brake, cap, or barrel extension permanently attached by those same methods to cover the threads on a barrel, would not be considered to have a threaded muzzle. Please note, however, that any muzzle device or barrel extension which functions as a flash suppressor or grenade launcher would still constitute one of the qualifying features of a semiautomatic assault weapon as that term is defined in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30(B). Industrial adhesive products are not an acceptable method for permanently attaching a muzzle device.
View Quote
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 3:48:20 PM EDT
Here's an interesting point I just came up with.... Why, with a Class III, can I NOT modify a semi-automatic rifle, to accept a silencer, or make it fully automatic? This is much like buying a guitar. The action is set at 2 inches high!, tuned NORMAL, and with stock pickups. Yet I want these certain high gain EMG pickups, with a low action, and a totally different bridge. But NO!, I have to have a pre band Bridge, on my pre-ban, 1985 Guitar! Okay, change the fret sizes or pickups, NO! You have to have a permit to do that! I got a car, 1967 Camaro... I want to put 18" Rims on it, (just go with me here), a new stereo system, and change the front bumper to something stronger. Eh Eh, the rims cannont exceed 15" in accordance to the new rim jaw law! The stereo can only be 15 watts, and only run 1 subwoofer. Oh yea, and only in MONO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stereo, (aka full auto), requires a tax stamp for King George! You see folks, this is all infringing on our rights, and on the second amendment of this great country. Now, I can understand a form, and even serious background checks, but these assault weapon ban laws, and the $200 Dollar Tax to king george are OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lord help us.........
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 3:52:03 PM EDT
trolls, trolls, trolls, trolls, look there's one [bounce] trolls, trolls, trolls, trolls
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 3:56:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GuitarSlinger66: Stereo, (aka full auto), requires a tax stamp for King George! You see folks, this is all infringing on our rights, and on the second amendment of this great country. Now, I can understand a form, and even serious background checks, but these assault weapon ban laws, and the $200 Dollar Tax to king george are OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lord help us.........
View Quote
Who's King George? what's an 'assault weapon'???
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 4:04:35 PM EDT
Well, if you are buying a pre-64 Fender you cannot put anything on it that it didn't come with from Fullerton. It's a law. If you buy a Pre-CBS Fender that someone has changed anything on it, you must destroy it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 4:23:24 PM EDT
Is it me, or is just not FAIR?!?!?!?!?!?
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 4:36:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery: trolls, trolls, trolls, trolls, look there's one [bounce] trolls, trolls, trolls, trolls
View Quote
Yep...I would say my flag went up after about the third post. Sgtar15
Top Top