Posted: 9/18/2007 6:27:43 AM EDT
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I posted this on a bike site, but there is much more traffic here. Of course there will be a flame war, but I am not trolling. OK, This is how I have always understood it: Sportbikes and simliar (SV650) are better handling motorcycles versus Harley and other cruiser style bikes. Reasons: -Wieght: Cruisers are generally heavier, thus more mass to deal with -Suspension: Cruisers have a softer "comfort" suspension which is not as capable during emergency manuvers -Tires: Cruisers have longer lasting, but harder tires with less actual traction area and higher sidewalls. -Geometry: Cruisers have forks that are raked out further and this limits the abilities of the motorcycles to turn easily and reduces the control you have over the front end. I have a female friend that wants to learn to ride, but she is in the cruiser crowd (calls anything not a harley a "crotch Rocket") and she thinks that learning on a cruiser would be better then a Ninja 250 or similar. I am of the opinion that it would be better for her to start on something light, small and good handling. ETA: I have an SV650 and she even calls that a Crotch Rocket. 
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It's probably better if everyone started on something lighter and smaller, but certainly not mandatory. The big thing is how the bike fits her. Can she put her feet or a foot compfortably on the ground to support the bike when it's stopped, and can she pick the thing up if it falls over.. |
I feel that it is better to learn on a bike that has fewer handling issues, and then work into a motorcycle that adds complexity. I learned to fly in a Cessna 150/152, but have flown things up to Citations. I certainly would not have just jumped into a jet. I think the basic motorcycle concepts are the same across all bikes, however some are more suited to inexperienced riders. |
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I like to teach new riders on dirt bikes or dual sports. Something like a small XR, NOT a CR250. The problem with a real sportbike is that, depending on how they are setup, the handling is frequently goofy at lower (learning type) speeds. As for wanting to ride a cruiser, I can't help you there... -Z |
I've never seen anything but "standard" motorcycles at an MSF course. They are far from being cruisers. |
When i took the course I rode a 250 volusia(sp) and 90% of the others were riding some form of 250cc crusier. 1 guy was riding a dual sport lol. These were supplied by MSF not the students. I guess it varies by what they can get. |
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Many MSF courses are taught on EX250s. They are not at all "squirrely" even at low speeds and handle quite well at high speed. The only weak points are the stock tires and the non-adjustable rear suspension, both of which CAN be modified. You cannot get a better-handling sport-looking bike for the price unless you go for Chinese crap bikes that are throw-aways. There will always be a supply of parts for the EX250 as it has been going on for over 20 years with only minor changes to the electrical system and mechanicals. |
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GS500 is a good learner bike. My first was a Bandit 600. The SV is NOT what I would recommend as a starter bike-it is VERY torquey and will snatch the front end off the ground in a corner. An inline 4 is far more forgiving at low speeds than a twin because the torque curve is genlter at low speeds-my SV would loft the the front tire in second at about 2500 rmp if you romped on it, my Bandit needed to be over 10k and you needed to clutch it into a wheelie rather than just snap the throttle open. Not that a new rider needs to be up on the rear wheel-but a hooligan bike isn't the best choice for a new rider. Make sure you pound into her head that if she loses her concentration for just a second, she WILL DIE. I lost a friend who had just started riding-had his bike for 2 months and a cager pulled out in front of him. He panicked and never even touched his front brake. Going to the funerals of dead friends is the worst thing about being a rider. |
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MSF classes use the Suzuki mini-cruiser 250s because that is what the dealerships want the students to get used to, not because they are the easiest bike to handle. There is one exercise in the MSF class, the double hairpin in the box, if you have taken the class you know what I am talking about. That exercise is about ten times easier to do on a Honda Nighthawk than on the Suzuki mini-cruiser. The low speed turning geometry of the Suzuki 250 is all screwed up. The easiest bike to learn on is a standard bike configuration and the only small one that I know of is the Nighthawk. Back to your question. The primary factor that effects a new student's ability to learn is confidence. That is all in the student's head. It's a mental thing. So if the student likes a cruiser then let her learn on a cruiser. If she wants a sport bike let her learn on a Ninja. Let her make the choice. She has to have confidence in the bike to overcome the fear of leaning into curves. |
New Ninja 250: 
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| Yamaha makes a little Virago 250 cruiser that is small, light, and has suprisingly good power for a newbie to learn with. They're good looking too with plenty of chrome. Best part is that relative to other bikes, they're dirt cheap brand new off the showroom floor. I'd tell her to go that route and then she'll have a trade-in when she's ready for more. |
| I put my gf on a suped up crf50f first so she could understand throttle and two wheels before worrying about a clutch etc. now she is on older 80cc... i think starting on a dirt bike to teach the basics is the way to go.. much more forgiving than a street bike... cruisers do tend to handle a little easier at low speeds for a beginer though... |
Agreed. Also, point out to your friend that sportbikes typically have better brakes than cruisers. Emergency stops are a key beginner skill. That said, sportbikes are probably not the best bike for a newbie either. I think the "standard" (meaning riding position is straight up and down) UJM is probably the best starter. Most cruisers (e.g. a HD Fatboy) have forward controls which slings the rider backward in the seat. Most sportbikes (e.g. the R6) place the rider in a position where he or she is leaning forward in the seat. Neither are particularly good for a rank beginner, so bikes with the standard riding position are preferred. The MSF course in my area uses Suzuki 250s and Honda 125s in this mold. Nothing fancy .. not even disc brakes ... but they are light, manuverable and easy for a newbie to ride. I classify your Suzuki SV650 as a standard ... a good choice. But apparently your friend does not agree. Why don't you just have your friend take the MSF course? They supply the bikes and she will gain a new appreciation for non-HD bikes. PS I have ridden a Sportster 883 briefly at a HD Open House event in 2001 or so ... I don't think it had forward controls. The Yamaha Virago 250 also mentioned in this thread also does not have forward controls. Both may be good starter "cruiser style" bikes for your friend if she is dead set against riding anything that doesn't resemble a HD Softail. |
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+10,000 on starting her on a virago 250. Cheap to buy off the floor and even cheaper to find a used one in minty shape. Has the crusier looks and feel without the high Harley price tag. Tell her to start there so when she makes all her beginner's mistakes such as dropping the bike, it won't be a big deal to fix or won't matter because the bike might be a little beat up anyway. Then tell her that once she has the experience and confidence to drive around a $9000+ Harley, to do it then. (not a Harley guy myself, but a beginner should not start out on a expensive motorcycle. That is like giving a Corvette Z06 to a 16 year old to learn to drive in) |
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Forget the "Harley versus Crotch Rocket" debate; get her into an MSF class. They will have a bike for her to use (prolly a small standard; if she's really tall they may stick her on a dual-sport), she will learn vehicle control and defensive driving in a controlled environment from experienced trainers. I tell everyone that is interested in getting a motorcycle endorsement to take the MSF class, they are well worth it. Just my 2¢, WhyTanFox P.S. Afterwards, if her understanding of motorcycle classes is Harley/Crotch Rocket, point her towards the standards like Honda Rebel, Kawa Eliminator, etc. They are fun little bikes and tend to sip fuel -- wouldn't want to take one on an interstate camping trip, though. |
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I bought a ninja 250 for my GF and it is without a doubt the best bike in its pricerange. The virago, nighthawk, and rebel are not in the same league with regards to handling, braking, and power. The ninga power and torque is very soft on the bottom end well suited to a beginner who may not be smooth on the throttle. The ninja is also a "sit up" type bike that doe not have the agressive ergonomics of a true sportbike. Transitioning to a cruiser later on will no be big change. |
Not yet confirmed. |
Yup. Learn to ride on a dirt bike or dual sport. Cruisers and Sportbikes can be unforgiving, for different reasons. |
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Here they mainly use Yamaha XR/TWs, and Honda Nighthawk/Rebel 250s. I took my course on a Yamaha TW200. |
In the picture it looks like there is a fat 2 stroke welded header in there. Can't really tell but it does look like it. I believe the 250's now are a parallel twin like the 500ex/ninja's, but 'rumor' is the new 250 will be an inline 4cylinder. Sounds like it'll be a great handling light street/track bike. If they can keep the price at $3,000 like the current ones I'm sure they won't have any problems selling them. Kawasaki's come a long way in the styling department in the last few years. They've had some models that have had the same style for up to 20 years. KLR, Concours, and Ninja/EX 250. Same powerplant in the KLR essentially but the Concours and possibly EX250 get a nice powerboost. |
Yep. Something like a Yamaha TW200. Or any other small street legal dual sport bike. Low power, but enough to get up highway speed, comfortable riding position, great low speed handling, crashes well, and non-threatening in just about every way. As a beginnner (and even many experienced riders), falling WILL happen. You don't want a buch of expensive plastic to replace from a simple tip over or low speed fall. A dual sport will likely just get a little scratch up and keep on going. Forget the SV650 as a pure learners bike. They are actually pretty serious machines and can satisfy even hard core sportbikers. For the brand new rider, simple and non-intimidating=fun. With more experience, the new rider may decide to go for a sportbike, or might like dirt better, and get a machine that is better suited to either. |
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New Ninja 250: i31.photobucket.com/albums/c399/teguhriandi/02.jpg Not yet confirmed. In the picture it looks like there is a fat 2 stroke welded header in there. Can't really tell but it does look like it. I believe the 250's now are a parallel twin like the 500ex/ninja's, but 'rumor' is the new 250 will be an inline 4cylinder. Sounds like it'll be a great handling light street/track bike. If they can keep the price at $3,000 like the current ones I'm sure they won't have any problems selling them. Kawasaki has done a 250cc four sportbike, they just never made it to the US. I seriously doubt they could sell one of these here and keep the price @ $3000. |
My girlfriend has the baby Ninja and I have an SV650S (for sale on eBay at the moment  ).I don't think there's a better bike to learn on than the 250 Ninja, unless you are really heavy. But when my girlfriend and I have to go somewhere on campus, we usually take hers since mine has a cowl instead of a rear seat. It pulls us fine, but I haven't been on the highway 2-up with it. Combined we probably weigh about 290-300 lbs. The baby Ninja is also VERY comfortable, except that I don't like the grips. Your friend might find it cramped if she's over 6'0". I definitely recommend a standard sitting position for a first bike, as it's easier to stop yourself from falling over at low speed. I had a GS450L as a first bike, and even though it was kind of raked out for my tastes, the seating position was like sitting in a dining room chair. The Ninja is similar, with a better rake angle. |
That is amazing. I know what I want for my next bike. 80 mpg and damn sexy too. 
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Current 250s are parallel twins. From speculation I read on another website, they are looking at the $4300 price range, but I really doubt Kawi would go that high - it'd be a bad business move IMO. With people looking for cheap transportation, the current baby Ninja has a pretty good position in that market segment. |
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In our cycle rider course, we have the following: Suzuki GN 125 GZ 250 Yamaha TW 200 XT 225 Honda CB 125 Nighthawk 250 Rebel 250 Kawasaki Eliminator 125 All exercises in the course can be completed on any of those motorcycles. I have seen a Goldwing go through them also, FWIW. |
My wife learned and got her license on the Kawasaki Vulcan 500. This is an excellent little bike for a beginner. It's very comfortable, lightweight and classic Ninja engine. This engine is tuned differently that the sportbike engine for lower low end torque and results in a motorcycle that's extremely easy for a beginner. Although close a couple of times at stops, the wife never dropped it. It also has plenty of power to keep up in traffic as well as a lower seat height.
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